Possible liver shunt - PLEASE HELP, NEED INFO - YorkieTalk.com Forums

hooliacasa · 02-10-2008, 09:51 AM

I've started a new thread and want to Thank everyone for your prayers and please keep praying for my Evey. The vet called yesterday and please bear with me as this is all so foreign to me. He said he got back part of her blood test and he says she has something wrong with the liver. He said we needed to put her on liver diet, by science diet, absolutely no vitamin C, low dose anitbiotics and prednisone. He used words like Sam E, unitisol, actigol (i'm sure I'm spelling these wrong). He said he wanted to send her to Springfield to a specialist and have an ultrasound and a biopsy done. So i spent yesterday and this morning read up on stuff and I'm thinking the vet thinks she has a liver shunt? Only he didnt say the word liver shunt. But he described it as a vessel outside her liver that wasn't working properly. He never said anything about a bile acide test or ammonia challenge test- shouldn't she have those done before an ultrasound or biospy? At least that is what I am reading. If anyone can give me any resources to read on this, I would really appreciate it. And food - what food is best? Is the scince diet really the best? My husband and I will figure this out financially and I don't know what to expect. All I know is that I CANNOT lose Evey, not like this. She is my precious girl - I have 4 yorkies and she is my only girl and I am so in love with her. I just need information and like I said, please bear with me and please do not abbreviate things as this is all so new to me. The vet is having to send out to get an antibiotic made for her- I think thats what the utisol is and his tablets come in 250 mg and she only needs 25-50 mg of it. We are going to use the antibiotics and prednisone to stabilize her and of course this new diet until we can gather the money for the ultrasound - but should I request that a bile acid test be done? And I read something about a protein C test? What is that? I am filled with so many questions and am totally lost here. PLEASE HELP WITH ANY KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE. And please pray for me little girl.

Ellie May · 02-10-2008, 10:01 AM

I'm so sorry.

I would definately do a bile acid test BEFORE putting her on Ursodiol/Actigall because it can skew the results.

If it were my dog and the vet feels it is already time for a specialist, I would put her on Denosyl OR VetriDMG and Hepatosupport along with a low protein diet while waiting to see the specialist. The diet would either be Science Diet L/D (canned is best) or Royal Canin LS 14 kibble.

You can do a Protein C test. This helps distinguish between a liver shunt and microvascular dysplasia...MVD (small shunts throughout the liver). Extrahepatic liver shunts are outside the liver and are usually operable. Intrahepatic shunts are inside the liver and aren't operable. These are less common in Yorkies. MVD is not operable and the dog should be supplemented.

A biopsy is fine to do if your dog is stable. I wouldn't waste money on a needle biopsy. They need to open her up to get the best sample. If they do this make sure they take more than one piece of liver. It is easier to check fo MVD this way. A biopsy may not be necessary...

Ultrasounds sometimes don't show shunts, so I would go with scintography over an ultrasound. Ultrasounds are a good choice if kidney function is in question...if the vet thinks she has stones...a possible by-product of liver shunt.

Yorkieluv · 02-10-2008, 10:35 AM

Please join: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/
There you will be able to find all of the information you need to make an informed decision on what your next step might be.

Did they do any bloodwork at all? a bile acid test is important...
Why did they put her on prednisone? Please ask that they put her on prednisolone instead...
Prednisone is processed through the liver...Prenisolone is much, much safer for the liver and it does the same thing.
If they put her on a prescription diet, make absolutely sure that it is canned L/D. Not K/D or I/D or any other kind.
Is there any way you can post what her bloodwork said? What was her ALT? BUN? etc?
Please join the liver shunt/mvd group that I posted above for you....

Ellie May · 02-10-2008, 10:58 AM

Yes, please join that group.

I also wanted to say that you could use marin in place of the hepatosupport... if you want.

What are her symptoms?
Just jaundice and dark urine?

Yorkieluv · 02-10-2008, 11:15 AM

I know this is nit picking, but Marin contains yeast and liver for flavor in small amounts. Although it might not affect a dog who is not in a bad way, it could affect very sensitive dogs over time.

Ellie May · 02-10-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

I know this is nit picking, but Marin contains yeast and liver for flavor in small amounts. Although it might not affect a dog who is not in a bad way, it could affect very sensitive dogs over time.

LOL. It's not nit picking.

I would use Hepatosupport.

Yorkieluv · 02-10-2008, 12:09 PM

Lol

Ellie May · 02-11-2008, 06:52 AM

How is everything today?

hooliacasa · 02-11-2008, 07:14 AM

Okay, well I just got off the phone with the vet and he does NOT think its a liver shunt. Yes, he did do a bile acid test and he said it was off the scale, her count was 239 and he said a normal count is less than 10. Geez I'm so lost in all of this. He is very adamant that we get an ultrasound and biopsy to look for abnormal tissue or cancer or an abcess. He is NOT going to use prednisone but the prednosolone ( sorry if I'm spelling all of this wrong). We won't have the money to get her in for an ultrasound until April and I'm just sick about that but he doesn't feel its an immediate need and thinks that the antibiotics and the prednosolone will support her until then. So now I'm back to square one and completely confused

hooliacasa · 02-11-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, please join that group.

I also wanted to say that you could use marin in place of the hepatosupport... if you want.

What are her symptoms?
Just jaundice and dark urine?

As far as her symptons, they are this: The vet said her eyes are jaundiced. She's lost a pound! Her urine is dark yellow and her poop is light, reminds me of clay. A couple of weeks ago, she became finicky with her food. I've fed her vegetables this weekend until we can get to the vet. Other than those things that I can see, she acts completely normal. The vet said liver shunts are usually diagnosed up to 18 months old and he feels very strongly it isnt that. I'm so frustrated!

Ellie May · 02-11-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooliacasa

As far as her symptons, they are this: The vet said her eyes are jaundiced. She's lost a pound! Her urine is dark yellow and her poop is light, reminds me of clay. A couple of weeks ago, she became finicky with her food. I've fed her vegetables this weekend until we can get to the vet. Other than those things that I can see, she acts completely normal. The vet said liver shunts are usually diagnosed up to 18 months old and he feels very strongly it isnt that. I'm so frustrated!

I can't tell you if it is a shunt or not and yes, they are USUALLY diagnosed before 18 months or two years. However, there was one dog diagnosed at 8 years. Also, microvascular dysplasia (small shunting) is often asymptomatic and is usually diagnosed later in life.

bjh · 02-11-2008, 10:49 AM

It is possible that your girl just has liver disease and there are many causes of that as explained in this article:
http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/liverdisease.htm

There are many things that can effect the liver over time, vaccinations, diets, bacterial infections, pancreatitis, etc. I hope your little girl gets the help she needs.

Ellie May · 02-26-2008, 09:57 AM

How is everything?

littlewhip · 02-26-2008, 10:19 AM

So sorry, praying for your little girl..

hooliacasa · 02-26-2008, 12:24 PM

Everyone, Hello. I'm Hooliacasa Husband Don

I very sad to tell everyone that we have lost our little girl Evey. Evey past away last week of Liver Failure. As you can understand we our very sad over our unbelievable loss and Julie (Hooliacasa) Is taking it very very hard. She was our little girl and we loved her very much. She is in a better place now with God, playing carefree of pain and sickness.

We thank you for all of the emails and prayers, but please just say a quite prayer for our little girl, and please stop sending emails to Hooliacasa because everyone that she gets makes it harder for her to read on go on with life, I hope everyone can understand, it is a unthinkable loss to my wife and I Evey was our best friend in the world.

Thank You Everyone

Don House

02-10-2008, 09:51 AM	#1
hooliacasa Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 195	Possible liver shunt - PLEASE HELP, NEED INFO I've started a new thread and want to Thank everyone for your prayers and please keep praying for my Evey. The vet called yesterday and please bear with me as this is all so foreign to me. He said he got back part of her blood test and he says she has something wrong with the liver. He said we needed to put her on liver diet, by science diet, absolutely no vitamin C, low dose anitbiotics and prednisone. He used words like Sam E, unitisol, actigol (i'm sure I'm spelling these wrong). He said he wanted to send her to Springfield to a specialist and have an ultrasound and a biopsy done. So i spent yesterday and this morning read up on stuff and I'm thinking the vet thinks she has a liver shunt? Only he didnt say the word liver shunt. But he described it as a vessel outside her liver that wasn't working properly. He never said anything about a bile acide test or ammonia challenge test- shouldn't she have those done before an ultrasound or biospy? At least that is what I am reading. If anyone can give me any resources to read on this, I would really appreciate it. And food - what food is best? Is the scince diet really the best? My husband and I will figure this out financially and I don't know what to expect. All I know is that I CANNOT lose Evey, not like this. She is my precious girl - I have 4 yorkies and she is my only girl and I am so in love with her. I just need information and like I said, please bear with me and please do not abbreviate things as this is all so new to me. The vet is having to send out to get an antibiotic made for her- I think thats what the utisol is and his tablets come in 250 mg and she only needs 25-50 mg of it. We are going to use the antibiotics and prednisone to stabilize her and of course this new diet until we can gather the money for the ultrasound - but should I request that a bile acid test be done? And I read something about a protein C test? What is that? I am filled with so many questions and am totally lost here. PLEASE HELP WITH ANY KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE. And please pray for me little girl.

02-10-2008, 10:01 AM	#2
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	I'm so sorry. I would definately do a bile acid test BEFORE putting her on Ursodiol/Actigall because it can skew the results. If it were my dog and the vet feels it is already time for a specialist, I would put her on Denosyl OR VetriDMG and Hepatosupport along with a low protein diet while waiting to see the specialist. The diet would either be Science Diet L/D (canned is best) or Royal Canin LS 14 kibble. You can do a Protein C test. This helps distinguish between a liver shunt and microvascular dysplasia...MVD (small shunts throughout the liver). Extrahepatic liver shunts are outside the liver and are usually operable. Intrahepatic shunts are inside the liver and aren't operable. These are less common in Yorkies. MVD is not operable and the dog should be supplemented. A biopsy is fine to do if your dog is stable. I wouldn't waste money on a needle biopsy. They need to open her up to get the best sample. If they do this make sure they take more than one piece of liver. It is easier to check fo MVD this way. A biopsy may not be necessary... Ultrasounds sometimes don't show shunts, so I would go with scintography over an ultrasound. Ultrasounds are a good choice if kidney function is in question...if the vet thinks she has stones...a possible by-product of liver shunt. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 Last edited by Ellie May; 02-10-2008 at 10:03 AM.

02-10-2008, 10:35 AM	#3
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	Please join: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/ There you will be able to find all of the information you need to make an informed decision on what your next step might be. Did they do any bloodwork at all? a bile acid test is important... Why did they put her on prednisone? Please ask that they put her on prednisolone instead... Prednisone is processed through the liver...Prenisolone is much, much safer for the liver and it does the same thing. If they put her on a prescription diet, make absolutely sure that it is canned L/D. Not K/D or I/D or any other kind. Is there any way you can post what her bloodwork said? What was her ALT? BUN? etc? Please join the liver shunt/mvd group that I posted above for you.... __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

02-10-2008, 10:58 AM	#4
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Yes, please join that group. I also wanted to say that you could use marin in place of the hepatosupport... if you want. What are her symptoms? Just jaundice and dark urine? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

02-10-2008, 11:15 AM	#5
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	I know this is nit picking, but Marin contains yeast and liver for flavor in small amounts. Although it might not affect a dog who is not in a bad way, it could affect very sensitive dogs over time. __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

02-10-2008, 12:09 PM	#7
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	Lol __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

02-11-2008, 06:52 AM	#8
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	How is everything today? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

02-11-2008, 07:14 AM	#9
hooliacasa Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 195	Okay, well I just got off the phone with the vet and he does NOT think its a liver shunt. Yes, he did do a bile acid test and he said it was off the scale, her count was 239 and he said a normal count is less than 10. Geez I'm so lost in all of this. He is very adamant that we get an ultrasound and biopsy to look for abnormal tissue or cancer or an abcess. He is NOT going to use prednisone but the prednosolone ( sorry if I'm spelling all of this wrong). We won't have the money to get her in for an ultrasound until April and I'm just sick about that but he doesn't feel its an immediate need and thinks that the antibiotics and the prednosolone will support her until then. So now I'm back to square one and completely confused

02-11-2008, 10:49 AM	#12
bjh Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 7,959	It is possible that your girl just has liver disease and there are many causes of that as explained in this article: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/liverdisease.htm There are many things that can effect the liver over time, vaccinations, diets, bacterial infections, pancreatitis, etc. I hope your little girl gets the help she needs.

02-26-2008, 09:57 AM	#13
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	How is everything? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

02-26-2008, 10:19 AM	#14
littlewhip Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: wiith my furbabys Posts: 8,874	So sorry, praying for your little girl.. __________________

02-26-2008, 12:24 PM	#15
hooliacasa Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 195	Upsetting News in our Family Everyone, Hello. I'm Hooliacasa Husband Don I very sad to tell everyone that we have lost our little girl Evey. Evey past away last week of Liver Failure. As you can understand we our very sad over our unbelievable loss and Julie (Hooliacasa) Is taking it very very hard. She was our little girl and we loved her very much. She is in a better place now with God, playing carefree of pain and sickness. We thank you for all of the emails and prayers, but please just say a quite prayer for our little girl, and please stop sending emails to Hooliacasa because everyone that she gets makes it harder for her to read on go on with life, I hope everyone can understand, it is a unthinkable loss to my wife and I Evey was our best friend in the world. Thank You Everyone Don House