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Paranoid about liver shunt I have not posted for probably a month, but Pippa is worrying me. She has been getting hypoglycemic lately, at least that is what I think it is...wobbly, shaky etc. but tonight she did it and just didn't really respond to the Nutrical, tried Karo syrup, I don't know, she just is so spacy and paces in circles in her playpen with her head rubbing on the sides. Is a liver shunt diagnosed just with a blood test? I'll call the vet in the morning. :( Plus she's been so bratty lately. When she is feeling good anyway...:rolleyes: |
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To be honest, that sounds EXACTLY like liver shunt or MVD. She needs to see a vet. The bile acid test is a blood test done before and after eating (so two in total). |
How old is Pippa? My pup's breeder - when queried about liver shunt - said that it was not in her line, but if the pup was to get it, he would already be showing signs (he's 5 months old). I haven't been able to find anything stating an "age" for onset of symptoms. I wish you both the best ... apparently this is something I need to look up and study. Please keep us advised regarding diagnosis, prognosis and treatment. |
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Sounds like Liver Shunt with the spaciness and the going in circles and what I call head pressing. Liver shunt can be diagnosed younger than a year old and I'm talking around 7 to 8 months old. I would take to vet and schedule the Bile Acid Tests. If you think it might be liver shunt feed a very low protein food diet. Liver shunt can be scary but can be surgically corrected if it's an outside shunt. Enternal shunts aka MVD can not be surgically corrected but can be controlled with diet and medication. I would for sure get a vet appt. asap. Donna Bird Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers |
When Diggy was 8 weeks old he showed every sign of a liver shunt possible. Down to full blown seizures :( He had Bile acid test at 10 weeks and was diagnosed with Hypo. I later found out that if it is just hypo, Kayro or Nutrical will help almost instantly. Another difference in Hypo and Liver issue is with hypo symptoms normally occur hours (like 3-4) after eating when they have burned off all sugar and it starts to drop. Liver issue symptoms normally occur within an hour of eating foods with protein (meat, kibble, etc.) I had to set alarm and hand feed him every 2-3 hours. This is just my experiance and what I have read on here and was told by the multiple vets that treated Diggy. Hypo is normally outgrown by the age of 5-6 months and that is when many liver issues begin to surface. Im so sorry your going thru this and the only advice I have is begin feeding her foods low in protein until she gets into the vet for bile acid test. It cannot hurt her and if she does have a liver issue this may help her be less symptomatic. Good Luck and please let us know what you find out. |
Definitely do the BAT to see if liver shunt is possible. It could also be hydrocephlaus or brain damage. The symptoms are the same as liver shunt and she did have a head trauma not very long ago if I remember correctly. Test for liver shunt but be prepared to look for a primary neurological cause as well. |
Cali had several hypoglycemic episodes up until she was 8 months old and she was diagnosed at that time with mild MVD (external Liver shunt). I would definatley get a bile acid test done. |
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His Bile acid results were pre 5 post 7. I kinda put it in the bak of my mind but now I am thinking again maybe I should retest? |
JennS, You'd better get your pup to the vet asap. That sounds just like a liver shunt. My little Maya was shaking and spacing out....walking in circles....walking the perimeter of the living room. It turned out that she had a liver shunt. One surgery and thousands of dollars later, she is a robust furbaby. She was very tiny...the breeder told me she would only be 3 or 4 lbs. She is now about 6.5. There are 2 kinds of liver shunts; internal and external hepatic. I can't remember off hand which is worse for treating surgically. I hope to God it's not a liver shunt....but get your baby in to see the vet to get a bile acid test before she shows signs of a seizure. My thoughts and prayers are with you! |
That's right....internal hepatic shunt is worse than an external. Also be aware, if she is diagnosed with this, that there may be more than just one shunt. Our vet. had to refer us to an internal medicine hospital for pets.....fortunately it was not too far away. |
I got this off the web...hope it helps. http://www.livershunt.com/ http://www.vet.utk.edu/faculty/tobias.shtml |
Please ask for a bile acid test to be done, not just a regular blood panel...The bile acid test is sensitive to liver function whereas regular bloodwork won't show a problem in the liver until it's 70% damaged... Those symptoms that you mentioned sound a lot like liver shunt/mvd symptoms. In fact, many times, liver shunt is misdiagnosed as hypoglycemia. |
Please Do Not Let Me Scare You But Please Let Me Just Make You Aware We Just Went Through Exactly What You Are Going Through The Exact I Mean Exact Same Symptoms!! Please Check Into Atlantis Axial Subluxation Or Occipital Axial Subluxation. When We Took Bleu In They Thought He Had Iver Shunt Turned Out He Had Oas... My Prayers Are With You Right Now Plese Update Us Asap Get To Vet Hurry! |
Hi Jenn, Do you know what's going on with Pippa yet? Our paws are crossed! |
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Hi. My yorkie Zeus was diagnose with liver shunts at about 10 months. He was sick before but I just didn't know. He didn't digest food well, was underweight, but he played like crazy and loved life. He didn't present with head pressing and circling, or he certainly would have been diagnosed sooner. He actually had ascites and that's how we found it. The specialist thought it could be occluded, but when he did the surgery found extra-hepatic shunts. He closed him up and told me to love him but he wouldn't make it to see 2, and I would never get any weight on him. Well, he'll be 7 in May, and weighs around 10 lbs!!!!!! He is on a prescription diet and takes denosyl sd-4 every morning 1 hr. before eating. He is doing well. PM me if you want to. |
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Vets like to give us the worst case but dogs can live long and happy lives with liver problems as long as they get the right supplements and diet. |
Is he doing well now?? That is such a wonderful story!! If he had ascites, then he was pretty serious...Did he ever have seizures?? |
Wow What A Wonderful Story! I Know The Promise Behind That Story ! Thank You For The Smile Hugs Bleus Mom |
Thanks. He is a wonderful little dog and doing quite well. He never had seizures, he also didn't have the "typical" symptoms. He has days where he doesn't feel his best, but overall is "healthy" and happy. He loves toys, walks, playing and laying in laps:) When I figure it out, I'll post some pics.:) |
bailey 12, you should think about joining the liver shunt/mvd group on yahoo groups :) They are a great bunch of people and give really good advice on other supplements that are extremely helpful. Lactulose is imperative for dogs with liver problems and will most definitely reduce those "bad" days. |
good luck with your baby... sounds like a shunt/MVD to me... my girl has a shunt, external.. have the bile acid test... hope all goes well, get your dog on a low protein diet, that will help her alot. everything you're going through feels so scary, but relax, research and shower your dog with love. and with proper care, your baby will be great. |
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What you want to feed her is high quality protein that is easy for her liver to process. Cottage cheese, tofu, eggs, whitefish and chicken are just a few. Red meat is not recommended. Venison is red meat and I believe duck is too. Wellness makes a whitefish and sweet potato food that would be a better choice. |
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one of my dogs also was forming calcium oxalate crystals. sweet potato is high oxalate so i was told not to give to her with history of crystals. she is on potassium citrate to control them now. |
i found this again- this is what i read about the Glucosamine... GLUCOSAMINE may help with calcium oxalate kidney stones according to recent studies. This is a supplement which has been traditionally used to relieve osteoarthritis pain, rehabilitating cartilage, renewing synovial fluid, and repairing joints that have been damaged from osteoarthritis. My own dogs had been on this supplement for many years when their stones were diagnosed, so it did not have beneficial effect on them in regard to stones. However, they clearly had stones which had a familial/genetic association. So, perhaps for dogs whose stones are connected more to diet, Glucosamine may be effective. In either case, it cannot hurt the dog, and in case it might be effective for your dog, my advice is to add this supplement. |
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Have you considered consulting a nutritionist? You've got quite a challenge feeding your dogs! |
It is true that not enough protein can harm them, but you're not going to harm her by giving her 18% protein. Even healthy dogs eat this amount of protein...The important part is the quality of the protein. If you're giving the "right" kind of protein, their livers can usually handle more of this kind...Obviously giving red meat is going to make the liver work harder because of the toxins it produces... |
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