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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Paranoid about liver shunt (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/112250-paranoid-about-liver-shunt.html)

yorkiepup2 01-20-2008 11:34 PM
Hi Jenn,
Do you know what's going on with Pippa yet? Our paws are crossed!

Patti 01-21-2008 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy4 (Post 1686305)
Did you have bile acid done at 8 months or when she was a pup? I had Diggy's at 10 weeks and the vet said no need to retest unless he has symptoms.....what do ya think? he has not had hypo episodes since he was like 12 weeks. he free feeds now and had a complete blood panel last week and all looked good. he is now 10 months.

His Bile acid results were pre 5 post 7. I kinda put it in the bak of my mind but now I am thinking again maybe I should retest?
Cali had Hypoglycemic attacks in spite of eating and up until she was 8 months and she wasn't that small. Her bloodowork was always high so we did 2 BAT and both were well above normal. Liver biopsy confirmed MVD. SInce Diggy's blood work looks good and her BAT was within normal sounds like it was just due to his being tiny or not eating. I would think he is fine.

bailey12 01-22-2008 08:16 PM
Hi. My yorkie Zeus was diagnose with liver shunts at about 10 months. He was sick before but I just didn't know. He didn't digest food well, was underweight, but he played like crazy and loved life. He didn't present with head pressing and circling, or he certainly would have been diagnosed sooner. He actually had ascites and that's how we found it. The specialist thought it could be occluded, but when he did the surgery found extra-hepatic shunts. He closed him up and told me to love him but he wouldn't make it to see 2, and I would never get any weight on him. Well, he'll be 7 in May, and weighs around 10 lbs!!!!!! He is on a prescription diet and takes denosyl sd-4 every morning 1 hr. before eating. He is doing well. PM me if you want to.

Ellie May 01-23-2008 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey12 (Post 1697082)
Hi. My yorkie Zeus was diagnose with liver shunts at about 10 months. He was sick before but I just didn't know. He didn't digest food well, was underweight, but he played like crazy and loved life. He didn't present with head pressing and circling, or he certainly would have been diagnosed sooner. He actually had ascites and that's how we found it. The specialist thought it could be occluded, but when he did the surgery found extra-hepatic shunts. He closed him up and told me to love him but he wouldn't make it to see 2, and I would never get any weight on him. Well, he'll be 7 in May, and weighs around 10 lbs!!!!!! He is on a prescription diet and takes denosyl sd-4 every morning 1 hr. before eating. He is doing well. PM me if you want to.
What a good story.:)

Vets like to give us the worst case but dogs can live long and happy lives with liver problems as long as they get the right supplements and diet.

Yorkieluv 01-23-2008 08:16 AM
Is he doing well now?? That is such a wonderful story!! If he had ascites, then he was pretty serious...Did he ever have seizures??

BLEU BOY BARBER 01-24-2008 05:28 AM
Wow What A Wonderful Story! I Know The Promise Behind That Story ! Thank You For The Smile

Hugs Bleus Mom

bailey12 01-24-2008 08:07 AM
Thanks. He is a wonderful little dog and doing quite well. He never had seizures, he also didn't have the "typical" symptoms. He has days where he doesn't feel his best, but overall is "healthy" and happy. He loves toys, walks, playing and laying in laps:) When I figure it out, I'll post some pics.:)

Yorkieluv 01-24-2008 02:21 PM
bailey 12, you should think about joining the liver shunt/mvd group on yahoo groups :) They are a great bunch of people and give really good advice on other supplements that are extremely helpful.
Lactulose is imperative for dogs with liver problems and will most definitely reduce those "bad" days.

bellbuzz07 01-24-2008 02:48 PM
good luck with your baby... sounds like a shunt/MVD to me... my girl has a shunt, external.. have the bile acid test... hope all goes well, get your dog on a low protein diet, that will help her alot. everything you're going through feels so scary, but relax, research and shower your dog with love. and with proper care, your baby will be great.

sadiesamie 02-08-2008 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey12 (Post 1697082)
Hi. My yorkie Zeus was diagnose with liver shunts at about 10 months. He was sick before but I just didn't know. He didn't digest food well, was underweight, but he played like crazy and loved life. He didn't present with head pressing and circling, or he certainly would have been diagnosed sooner. He actually had ascites and that's how we found it. The specialist thought it could be occluded, but when he did the surgery found extra-hepatic shunts. He closed him up and told me to love him but he wouldn't make it to see 2, and I would never get any weight on him. Well, he'll be 7 in May, and weighs around 10 lbs!!!!!! He is on a prescription diet and takes denosyl sd-4 every morning 1 hr. before eating. He is doing well. PM me if you want to.
What kind of special diet? My little girl had a bile acid test a 2 mos ago. per was 15 and post 25. vet started her on Denamarin and we restested a week ago. now she was pre 3 and post 79. i am having a hard time understanding how she could increase so fast. shows no signs of anything wrong. very peppy and energenic. big appetite.. currently on wellness wgt mgt food. but before her last test that showed increased numbers i didnt know better and gave her more canned food (wellness venison and also duck) and also wellness treats 18%protein. I am praying that the canned food and treats caused her numbers to be higher or off. she also had heartguard 2 wks prior to her retest and i have heard that this can throw off the bat as well. she is allergic to corn and the pres diets do not thrill me AT ALL.

Ladymom 02-08-2008 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadiesamie (Post 1746105)
What kind of special diet? My little girl had a bile acid test a 2 mos ago. per was 15 and post 25. vet started her on Denamarin and we restested a week ago. now she was pre 3 and post 79. i am having a hard time understanding how she could increase so fast. shows no signs of anything wrong. very peppy and energenic. big appetite.. currently on wellness wgt mgt food. but before her last test that showed increased numbers i didnt know better and gave her more canned food (wellness venison and also duck) and also wellness treats 18%protein. I am praying that the canned food and treats caused her numbers to be higher or off. she also had heartguard 2 wks prior to her retest and i have heard that this can throw off the bat as well. she is allergic to corn and the pres diets do not thrill me AT ALL.
Don't put her on a low protein diet unless your vet tells you to do so. That is outdated thinking. Dr. Center does not recommend a low protein diet for asymptomatic MVD dogs. Recent studies have shown that a low protein diet can actually harm the liver. Dogs need protein.

What you want to feed her is high quality protein that is easy for her liver to process. Cottage cheese, tofu, eggs, whitefish and chicken are just a few. Red meat is not recommended. Venison is red meat and I believe duck is too. Wellness makes a whitefish and sweet potato food that would be a better choice.

sadiesamie 02-08-2008 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 1746340)
Don't put her on a low protein diet unless your vet tells you to do so. That is outdated thinking. Dr. Center does not recommend a low protein diet for asymptomatic MVD dogs. Recent studies have shown that a low protein diet can actually harm the liver. Dogs need protein.

What you want to feed her is high quality protein that is easy for her liver to process. Cottage cheese, tofu, eggs, whitefish and chicken are just a few. Red meat is not recommended. Venison is red meat and I believe duck is too. Wellness makes a whitefish and sweet potato food that would be a better choice.
I kinda thought that too which was why i introduced the wellness canned. I did check into the wellness ocean whitefish but it also listed the same amount of protein. maybe it was the same amount but dah...a different "type" I didn't know for sure. cottage cheese low fat or regular? what if i hardboiled eggs and just fed the white part-no yolks. tofu? hmmm... i will have to try that. even if for the moment until i can learn this homecooking thing or find a different food. they can at least have healthy treats. they are loving cauliflower- didnt' know if i should steam it first or not though? do you happen to know if she would benefit from omega 3 fish supplement bc i have been giving her that. and also what do you think about Glucosamine? I read somewhere that this is also good for the liver? (this is as we know a joint supplement) :-)

one of my dogs also was forming calcium oxalate crystals. sweet potato is high oxalate so i was told not to give to her with history of crystals. she is on potassium citrate to control them now.

sadiesamie 02-08-2008 07:56 PM
i found this again- this is what i read about the Glucosamine...
 
GLUCOSAMINE may help with calcium oxalate kidney stones according to recent studies. This is a supplement which has been traditionally used to relieve osteoarthritis pain, rehabilitating cartilage, renewing synovial fluid, and repairing joints that have been damaged from osteoarthritis. My own dogs had been on this supplement for many years when their stones were diagnosed, so it did not have beneficial effect on them in regard to stones. However, they clearly had stones which had a familial/genetic association. So, perhaps for dogs whose stones are connected more to diet, Glucosamine may be effective. In either case, it cannot hurt the dog, and in case it might be effective for your dog, my advice is to add this supplement.

Ladymom 02-08-2008 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadiesamie (Post 1746388)
I kinda thought that too which was why i introduced the wellness canned. I did check into the wellness ocean whitefish but it also listed the same amount of protein. maybe it was the same amount but dah...a different "type" I didn't know for sure. cottage cheese low fat or regular? what if i hardboiled eggs and just fed the white part-no yolks. tofu? hmmm... i will have to try that. even if for the moment until i can learn this homecooking thing or find a different food. they can at least have healthy treats. they are loving cauliflower- didnt' know if i should steam it first or not though? do you happen to know if she would benefit from omega 3 fish supplement bc i have been giving her that. and also what do you think about Glucosamine? I read somewhere that this is also good for the liver? (this is as we know a joint supplement) :-)

one of my dogs also was forming calcium oxalate crystals. sweet potato is high oxalate so i was told not to give to her with history of crystals. she is on potassium citrate to control them now.
Yes, unless your vet tells you to reduce her protein, don't do it on your own. Protein is important for the proper nitrogen balance her liver needs. Too little protein can actually damage her liver. We had a member on another forum who worked with Dr. Center for years with her Maltese Mikey. His MVD became symptomatic pretty quickly, but Dr. Center always had her give him high quality protein, mostly tofu, cottage cheese and eggs.

Have you considered consulting a nutritionist? You've got quite a challenge feeding your dogs!

Yorkieluv 02-08-2008 09:36 PM
It is true that not enough protein can harm them, but you're not going to harm her by giving her 18% protein. Even healthy dogs eat this amount of protein...The important part is the quality of the protein. If you're giving the "right" kind of protein, their livers can usually handle more of this kind...Obviously giving red meat is going to make the liver work harder because of the toxins it produces...


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