Cesar Millan/Did he really kick a dog on camera?
 

I don't get NGC but I have watched some clips on his website. His techniques don't phase Ellie. She really needs positive reinforcement. Anyway, I was just searching online and someone said that he kicked a Bulldog on one of his shows (it ended up on camera), while saying, "I am not kicking him. Never kick a dog". I know that he has some good editors but does this stuff actually appear on his shows?

I don't really like his training techniques I look at all my fur-babies as equal to me and a part of my family not that I have to dominate them and they all do respect me and love me just as much :p

I didn't see the episode but I hope he DID NOT kick that dog, violence towards animals is never acceptable!

I agree! Sometimes I see Caesar's children on the show and he uses the same techniques on them as he does the dogs he is training...I just think it's weird! My doggies know how much I love them and I don't have to dominate them. If either one of them do something wrong they know it and end up trying to kiss me until I forgive them...which takes about 4 seconds!

I know many like him and to each his own but I don't care for him and don't watch his shows...JMO

I'd have to see him kicking a dog to believe it. I think he's great, and has solved a lot of heartaches for a lot of people. My friend who has an out-of-control JR has written to him for help. I hope she gets a response.

I didn't see that episode; but I have seen him use his foot on the back leg of a dog that was giving its owner a fit chasing cars as they passed. He didn't kick it, just touched its back leg to distract it. I know he uses hard training on dogs to force them to becalm and submissive, but I think he really tries to wear them out; I have never seen him hurt one; even when he gets bitten. I didn't think his shows were live, and if they are not, he certainly would have edited out anything as bad as kicking a dog. I watch his shows; but he would hate me I'm afraid; My dog has me trained, and I love it.:D

In this YT thread http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91028 Look at the link Lara2913 provided...I don't like that roughness to our little dogs. It's just not necessary :mad:

I saw that link. I really don't have a problem with people holding animals by the scruff of their neck (reserved for growling/biting only) as long as it is positively not hurting them. I also use the alpha roll and it is also painless.

I guess I am a big softy because I see trainers use choke chains and prong collars. I just don't get it. A regular collar is bad enough which I am starting to really have second thoughts about even for big dogs. Ellie wears a harness because of collapsed trachea risk but who in the world came up with putting something around your dog's neck and choking them to make them listen?:mad: Then people go a step further and jab prongs into their dog's neck. I just don't understand. If someone who reads this does this, I am not trying to offend anyone. I just don't see the sense in it. If I got a huge dog tomorrow, it would wear a harness, not a collar, and not a Genle Leader (don't even get me started on those). I must be in a mood today.:p

I'm not sure that I buy into that whole "pack leader" thing with a little dog like a Yorkie. Sadie sleeps in my bed, walks through doorways ahead of me, sometimes eats before I do, etc, etc... BUT... I really think she knows that I'm the boss!!! At least I hope she does - although she does get away with murder cause she's so darn cute!!

I don't know about the whole alpha dog thing either. I am sure that there is some truth to it but Ellie gets alpha rolled and does tricks before she is allowed to eat sometimes. She still thinks she is the boss. I had a trainer tell me once that she gets on the back of the couch because she is looking for height. I just think she likes it up there.;)

I believe it's this episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTl7cq5qnmE
I believe he use some of their fear to train them. I would't want to get kicked agai or pulled by the skin on my neck so i'll do what they tell me. Isn't that using their fear? I may be wrong

If you have never experienced this problem believe me there is such a thing.
Yorkie's are no different than any other breed when it comes to being
Alpha. I have been through it and it's not fun! It can start from nowhere
and escalate into big problems if you do not take it seriously.
Some dogs are mellow other's are leader's. It's the leader's who experience
the Alpha position. It's not fun to see a little Yorkie get aggressive.
This is the #1 reason dogs are found in pounds all over the world.
People don't understand the concept of being a leader, or Alpha in the
pack.

He def. kicked the dog. Granted it wasn't hard. My concern with this technique is "how hard is too hard?" Who gets to decide how hard you can kick a dog and it still be OK? Some people would surely take it too far.

As you will of read in the other thread, I am not a fan, there really is no need to use the techniques that he does. The only thing he taught the bulldog was that if you try to go near the skateboard, you will get kicked.

Lucy is my first small dog. Having German Shepherds over the years since I was very young I can say that the alpha theory definitely does exist. My experience with Lucy however, has been very different than establishing who's in charge with my Shepherd fur babies.

Having said that, Lucy and I don't have control issues. She looks to me for EVERYTHING. She knows I'm in control so she has to worry about nothing but playing and being a very happy girl knowing I will take care of everything. The flip side of that is that she IS looking at me for everything-making my responsibility to her and her happiness/wellbeing all the more important.

Oh - I am not a fan of Millan.

"This is the #1 reason dogs are found in pounds all over the world.
People don't understand the concept of being a leader, or Alpha in the
pack". I very much agree with ARCHIE...


JMO

That must be the right clip. It is difficult to tell how hard he is kicking but it seemed to push the dog over when they were by the curb. I don't like it at all.

We don't assert our roll as Alpha dog either, but we have Yorkies who could care less who's in charge. :rofl28ib: I do however think that there are plenty of the "bully" breeds that should be kept in check for sure because most have a dominant nature. What is all boils down to is kind of like how we raise human kids. Each are unique in themselves, and we use a different approach with each one of them.

I saw that episode.. he's not "kicking" the dog to hurt him. Its more little a strong tap, the dog is fixated and he is trying to break that fixation. Years ago we had an alpha dog who tried to run our house, when he was a puppy we thougnt it was so cute, but then it quickly got out of hand. One small example is; if he was laying on the floor in front of the couch and we wanted him to move, he would growl and snap if we tried to go near him, etc..etc, Believe me it was not pretty... It wasn't until a trainer told us that the dog was all mixed up, he thought he was the boss and that we had been reinforcing that belief by letting him get away with it. We needed to be firm with him, we had to show him that we were in charge not he. It was hard work and it took a while but it paid off, there was a big change in that dog . We had him for many, many years and we loved him to death.

Thankfully, I have not had that problem again, and I would never ever think of using that tactic with my babies now, it's not needed now. But, in extreme cases, it works...its better than getting rid of the dog..

he didnt kick the dog, i saw that episode. it was a light tap with his foot just to get the dogs attention. i watch evrey show and he has NEVER kicked a dog

I am not a big fan of his methods for my family, although I do think that he does a lot of good for a lot of dogs.

I do use his "shh" and my dogs do know that means to stop what they are doing. I have tried using the "show leash" method he uses for walking and all it did was choke my dog so I have never tried it again.

Clicker training has helped us on a lot of levels with training. But I understand for more agressive or stubborn dogs, that might not always work.

its funny because here on YT i have read some many threads about out of control yorkies and yorokies who try to bite and the one the YTers tell them is turn them on their backs and tell them no so you are showing them who the leader is lol and also some say to put them aove your heads in the air and tell them no.

but then on this thread everyone is saying they dont believe in the leader roll or alpha roll.

i like him and i watch him and a lot of people dont want their dogs runny them and want them to be well trained. i think his methods are true. It doesnt hurt a dog to grab that skin on the back of their necks that is what the moms do. i dont necessarly do it but im sure it works.

im not putting down YT but its funny how some of us only will admit or like things when its a convience for us.

in that video of the bull dog it looks to me as if he is blocking the dog showing him not to go after the object its just like if you were to do it with your arm to block your dog real quick from gettin something and showing it that its bad to mess with that object.

[QUOTE=Txgurl06;1311223]its funny because here on YT i have read some many threads about out of control yorkies and yorokies who try to bite and the one the YTers tell them is turn them on their backs and tell them no so you are showing them who the leader is lol and also some say to put them aove your heads in the air and tell them no.

but then on this thread everyone is saying they dont believe in the leader roll or alpha roll.
QUOTE]

Good point. I think different people reply more to threads that are more in their vein of belief. I have had dogs that were followers and dogs that were leaders. True, if you've never had an alpha dog, there is no real need for "pack leader" training, and I'm sure that it looks ridiculous because you can't even imagine your baby needing it. Reggie, my current older one is a follower and there is no real need for any of that (except that he is getting crankier and more impatient with age). My previous female Yorkie was an alpha, and Coby is leaning in that direction. Those dogs do need leadership unless you want a spirited but obnoxious dog. As someone said earlier, it's very similar to children and their different needs and learning styles.

In Cesar's training, there are things that I truly believe in and that have been proven to be true in my household. There are also things that I take with a grain of salt. And I've said before, I think the Yorkies always give him a bigger challenge! ;)

I don't know if he kicked a dog, but if he did, that would make me lose total respect for him.

I like some of his techniques and they DO work. But, there are others I don't like. I don't like that he says not to give affection unless they earn it and not to treat them like little people. We have spoiled the heck out of Jake, but he is still very well behaved and listens to us. He's not out of control or anything like some of the dogs he works with.

Also, there have been times when I've watched the show, and he will get the behavioral problems solved, but the dogs just don't seem the same to me. They don't seem as happy or something. Maybe it's just me.:confused:

I agree. But I think I remember the show. With the skateboards? I wouldn't call it a kick at all. Granted, I would NEVER use my foot on a yorkie or other very small dog (and probably not on a bigger dog either), but I think it was a bulldog and a tap of the foot isn't going to hurt them. Also, you have to be very cautious using your foot on a dog. Dogs that have been really "kicked" in the past can suffer emotional trauma from that (had one). But if you notice, Cesar never kicks from the front. He takes his foot and crosses it behind his other leg, out of the sight of the dog. If done correctly, the dog, facing forward, shouldn't really realize where the "touch" even came from. That being sad, the foot "touch" isn't one of my favorite techniques. But I don't believe he hurt the dog at all in that show.

I hope that no one would ever kick a dog. However, if a large, aggressive dog were to come after me wanting to see what my liver tasted like or something, you bet your a$$ I'd kick it...but only to save my life.

:eek: LOL - Okay, let me rephrase my post - if one wanted to "see what my liver tasted like", I might try that too! Of course, Cesar would tell us that was not the right way, but..............

OMG I can't even watch all of that! I can't believe how he just picked that poor dog up by his neck! How cruel! Someone should carry that excuse for a human around by it's neck! The dogs didn't seem to get it either...I think I like that girl from It's Me or The Dog better :) If I had a trainer come to my house and do that to Rocky or Bella they would be kicked out ASAP, and they would recieve a peice of my mind instead of a paycheck, and I would try to prosecute them! I don't understand how that lady just sat their while he held her dogs like that :mad: :thumbdown

IMHO-like you said about the neck thing "That is what the moms do" We should not! Moms do it when they are pups and when a dog is full grown I am sure it is not as comfortable. I would never let anyone grab my fur-babies like that. Especially not in the case of that video clip...The discipline he used to stop those dogs from barking was way too harsh.


I do believe in the "alpha dog" or "alpha role" in my fur-family, Trini is definately the alpha and it shows buut mine are all pretty well behaved. They all know I'm the boss but I treat them as equals always...:p

There are other less degrading ways to train a dog than to intimidate them or show them our superiority, that's all I'm saying. I remember reading a post from another YT'er a few months back saying that what helped her dog stop barking was to get a metal spoon and a pan and bank it every time the dog would accessively bark. I think that is a much better way to approach that situation. The dog in that clip looked scared into submission. <<<Not good :( Your dog should do the right thing because they want to please you not because they are scared what will happen if they do whats wrong.


I also want to add that in extreme cases it might be necessary to be slightly more aggressive, but when the dog is having an aggression issue. Like a child, the discipline should conform to the offense...but I am not the one to decide what others do, just giving my honest opinion :p

great point! like i said i dont do it myself lol but hes trained and has helped many people.