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-   -   Okay Math Geniusues... What's 48÷2(9+3) ? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/off-topic-discussions/225558-okay-math-geniusues-whats-48-2-9-3-a.html)

megansmomma 04-08-2011 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddiesMommie (Post 3491717)
:DI actually teach this skill in 5th grade. YES, PEMDAS is used ANY time you have multiple operations however, what most people forget is even though multiplication and division are at the same level and the left to right rule applies, parentheses () outrank division.

This problem is written with the 2 with the parentheses, therefore, the 2 must stay with them until it is complete. This indicates that the values must be multiplied before doing any other operation.

48÷2(9+3) is different than 48÷2X(9+3)
this answer =2 this answer is =288
The 2 beside the ()
means you must X
2 by the answer inside
to be finished.

Now, thanks for making me work on my last day of spring break.:p
So are you trying to say the title of this thread should be changed to
WHO'S SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER

MaddiesMommie 04-08-2011 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 3491750)
So are you trying to say the title of this thread should be changed to
WHO'S SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER
:p sounds about right.;):D

AMD 04-08-2011 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linz06 (Post 3491576)
You could only factor it into 1/[12(x+2)] if you are writing it in a line form. In fraction form, that would be

1
_______
12(x+2)

and to write that in a line, you would have to show [ ] around the bottom to show it is all a denominator. Without those brackets, 1/12(x+2) would just be:

1
__ (x+2)
12

Yes you can add brackets which makes it easier to see but either way you cannot separate the factor in the denominator.
Otherwise it would have to be expressed (1/12)(x+2) and then the second example would be correct.
Anytime a number is multiplied by parenthesis, you can 1) distribute or 2) solve the parenthesis and multiply by your factor; but you have to solve the demonimator completely before performing the division operation.

48÷2(9+3) = 2
My Calculus teacher would stick it to me if I gave 288 as an answer to that algebra problem.

Ellie May 04-08-2011 10:34 AM
2 is a factor of (9+3). That is why it touches the (). You can't just separate it.

AMD 04-08-2011 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3491904)
2 is a factor of (9+3). That is why it touches the (). You can't just separate it.
:thumbup: Exactly

The biggest confusion is when to remove parenthesis; and I'll say that I never remove them until it's solved or else I'm . . . . . . ya.

Ellie May 04-08-2011 10:44 AM
Somebody brought up the factor point and it makes the most sense. If something is touching () in my algebra classes and I were to just separate the two, my profs would have something to say about it...

Rhetts_mama 04-08-2011 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3491904)
2 is a factor of (9+3). That is why it touches the (). You can't just separate it.
Exactly. If there were a * or x between the 2 and the parenthesis then you would work left to right and come up with 288.

Ellie May 04-08-2011 11:49 AM
Saw this on another forum. Replace 2 with x:

48/x(9+3)=288
the x has to be distributed.
48/9x+3x=288
48/12x=288
x is not = to 2 here because that would make the equation read 2=288.

48/x(9+3)=2
48/9x+3x=2
48/12x=2
x=2

The first one is not true.
2(9+3) and 2x(9+3) are different.

ladyjane 04-08-2011 12:22 PM
It is 288 and should not have been written like that. :D

107barney 04-08-2011 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3492060)
It is 288 and should not have been written like that. :D
Yep! It's 288.

kjc 04-08-2011 01:20 PM
It's 2. :D

Like if Teddy had 5 biscuits and Peek a Boo stole 3 of them away, Teddy would have 2 left and Peek a Boo would have none. (Because he ate his!):eek:

:D:D 2 two der :aimeeyork:aimeeyork dos :p:p swie (sp) :eek::eek: TWO!

107barney 04-08-2011 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3492113)
It's 2. :D

Like if Teddy had 5 biscuits and Peek a Boo stole 3 of them away, Teddy would have 2 left and Peek a Boo would have none. (Because he ate his!):eek:

:D:D 2 two der :aimeeyork:aimeeyork dos :p:p swie (sp) :eek::eek: TWO!
Teddy has 288 biscuits !

linz06 04-08-2011 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3492123)
Teddy has 288 biscuits !
LOL!!! I agree.

I think Teddy will agree with 288 too :D

Bitsy 04-08-2011 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linz06 (Post 3492127)
LOL!!! I agree.

I think Teddy will agree with 288 too :D
Okay...now I see why Teddy wants the answer to be 288. :D

Teddy...you can get extra credit for being cute!

Bitsy 04-08-2011 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3492060)
It is 288 and should not have been written like that. :D
Hahaha....that made me laugh! :D

kjc 04-08-2011 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3492123)
Teddy has 288 biscuits !
Blah, blah, blah, blah... can't have stuff that ain't there! That's fine.... 288 is good. You hiring by any chance (but only if you do your own payroll.. hehehe.):D

JMuedog 04-08-2011 02:25 PM
LOL! Look at this:

http://i56.tinypic.com/16h6ja8.png

I say it means that We're all CORRECT!

Wylie's Mom 04-08-2011 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMuedog (Post 3492173)
LOL! Look at this:

http://i56.tinypic.com/16h6ja8.png

I say it means that We're all CORRECT!
Oh boy. I haz confuzed. :confuse2:

kjc 04-08-2011 02:39 PM
:aimeeyorkx:aimeeyork=:aimeeyork
:aimeeyork(:aimeeyork)= :aimeeyork:aimeeyork:aimeeyork:aimeeyork :aimeeyork( means that one multiplies! FOIL (First, inner, outter, last)

Nancy1999 04-08-2011 02:40 PM
This isn't a math problem as much as it is a reading problem. The question asks, "What is 48 divided by two times the sum of 9 plus 3?" It does not ask, what is 48 divided by 2, multiplied by the sum of 9 plus 3.

OwnedByJezebel 04-08-2011 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3492187)
This isn't a math problem as much as it is a reading problem. The question asks, "What is 48 divided by two times the sum of 9 plus 3?" It does not ask, what is 48 divided by 2, multiplied by the sum of 9 plus 3.
:thumbup:

Rhetts_mama 04-08-2011 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMuedog (Post 3492173)
LOL! Look at this:

http://i56.tinypic.com/16h6ja8.png

I say it means that We're all CORRECT!
You know things are confuzzled when even the calculators can't agree :D

BabyGirl Rosie 04-08-2011 05:13 PM
I had fun with this in my classroom today. I had my 8th grade Algebra students work it. These are advanced students. Three answers came out of the problem. 288, 2, and 8 1/3. Hmmmmmm. My calculator, the TI 73, shows 288. I said in my post that it is 288 if you follow order of operations. (And I teach math. lol). I asked math teacher friends. They got 288. BUT if you look at it as a fraction bar for division it creates a whole different situation. Because fraction bars fall under the grouping symbols. If you use the fraction bar, the answer is 2. I have taught order of operations for years. Never had a problem stump me like this. I think it depends on how you write it. Fraction bar is 2 for sure. Urrrrrgghh this will end up driving me nuts! :p

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Rhonda/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

MaddiesMommie 04-08-2011 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMuedog (Post 3492173)
LOL! Look at this:

http://i56.tinypic.com/16h6ja8.png

I say it means that We're all CORRECT!
HaHa! Found this :
Note that different software will process this differently; even different models of Texas Instruments graphing calculators will process this differently. In cases of ambiguity, be very careful of your parentheses, and make your meaning clear. The general consensus among math people is that "multiplication by juxtaposition" indicates that the juxtaposed values must be multiplied together before processing other operations.
purplemath.com

Nancy1999 04-08-2011 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyGirl Rosie (Post 3492322)
I had fun with this in my classroom today. I had my 8th grade Algebra students work it. These are advanced students. Three answers came out of the problem. 288, 2, and 8 1/3. Hmmmmmm. My calculator, the TI 73, shows 288. I said in my post that it is 288 if you follow order of operations. (And I teach math. lol). I asked math teacher friends. They got 288. BUT if you look at it as a fraction bar for division it creates a whole different situation. Because fraction bars fall under the grouping symbols. If you use the fraction bar, the answer is 2. I have taught order of operations for years. Never had a problem stump me like this. I think it depends on how you write it. Fraction bar is 2 for sure. Urrrrrgghh this will end up driving me nuts! :p

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Rhonda/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
Back in the olden days we were taught to do the insides of parenthesis first, and then do what ever it takes to get rid of parenthesis. In other words, add 9+3 first and you still have parenthesis.
48÷2(12)
In order to get rid of that parenthesis you have to multiply, after you multiply, you can get rid of parenthesis and you have a problem that can be worked from left to right.

48 ÷ 24

Do they still teach that rule about parenthesis?

lisaly 04-08-2011 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3492331)
Back in the olden days we were taught to do the insides of parenthesis first, and then do what ever it takes to get rid of parenthesis. In other words, add 9+3 first and you still have parenthesis.
48÷2(12)
In order to get rid of that parenthesis you have to multiply, after you multiply, you can get rid of parenthesis and you have a problem that can be worked from left to right.

48 ÷ 24

Do they still teach that rule about parenthesis?
You are doing what's in the parenthesis first. Otherwise you'd be multiplying by 9 and then adding 3 afterwards. The parenthesis must come first. I showed this to my wonderful assistant, and we had fun with this, but we were too busy in our Resource Room working on and having our students take a two part Geometry proof test that took precedence. I love working with kids on Algebra, but Geometry is not fun for most of us.

MaddiesMommie 04-08-2011 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3492331)
Back in the olden days we were taught to do the insides of parenthesis first, and then do what ever it takes to get rid of parenthesis. In other words, add 9+3 first and you still have parenthesis.
48÷2(12)
In order to get rid of that parenthesis you have to multiply, after you multiply, you can get rid of parenthesis and you have a problem that can be worked from left to right.

48 ÷ 24

Do they still teach that rule about parenthesis?
Yes, we do and you are correct, you must multiply the sum of the parentheses by 2 to get rid of them.

Nancy1999 04-08-2011 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 3492337)
You are doing what's in the parenthesis first. Otherwise you'd be multiplying by 9 and then adding 3 afterwards. The parenthesis must come first. I showed this to my wonderful assistant, and we had fun with this, but we were too busy in our Resource Room working on and having our students take a two part Geometry proof test that took precedence. I love working with kids on Algebra, but Geometry is not fun for most of us.
Lol, yes, I said do the insides of parenthesis first!

Nancy1999 04-08-2011 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddiesMommie (Post 3492340)
Yes, we do and you are correct, you must multiply the sum of the parentheses by 2 to get rid of them.
Thank you!

BabyGirl Rosie 04-08-2011 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3492331)
Back in the olden days we were taught to do the insides of parenthesis first, and then do what ever it takes to get rid of parenthesis. In other words, add 9+3 first and you still have parenthesis.
48÷2(12)
In order to get rid of that parenthesis you have to multiply, after you multiply, you can get rid of parenthesis and you have a problem that can be worked from left to right.

48 ÷ 24

Do they still teach that rule about parenthesis?

This is what it says in Prentice Hall Algebra book:

1. Perform any operation inside grouping symbols
2. Simplify the powers
3. Multiply and Divide in order from left to right.
4. Add and subtract in order from left to right.

To me, this is saying once the 9 + 3 happens then what is left is considered multiplication. The two is distributive property which in reality is multiplication. Again, I think it is how you set it up. To be honest, I can see it both ways, 2 and 288. I think I need to email one of my old college professors!! :p It would be interesting to see what they say!!


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