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tanksmom 10-21-2007 11:22 AM
Need your advice
 
:confused: OK My good friend was just given a mutt puppy. Shes very happy so far and has asked me for advice. Do I tell her how I feel about how to raise a dog(crate training and quality dog food) even though its not how she wants to do it? Shes a little testy about people disagreeing with her but she means well. I expect she will NOT like what I tell her. Normally Id skirt this kind of talk but I feel for the dogs sake I need to speak up. No dog should be feed OL Roy.

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanksmom (Post 1450459)
No dog should be feed OL Roy.
I actually know of several dogs who have eaten OL Roy all of their lives and lived to a nice, old age. We have a hound that eats a similar, lower end of the spectrum food and would absolutely starve herself before she'd eat anything else. I think good quality foods are important, but over rated sometimes.:)

Anyway...if she asked for your advice, then she shouldn't be shocked when you give it to her and you shouldn't feel bad about doing it. If she doesn't like it, then she won't ask again.:p

SugarMama 10-21-2007 11:46 AM
Sugar was on Old Roy Kibbles & Bits type when I got her and she was healthy, but when I switched her to a better dog food her hair just started shining. I don't know if she's any healthier now but her hair looks prettier. Has this friend ever had a dog before? If not maybe you can ease into a conversation about dog care. Let her know that you've done a lot of research and that, if she wants, you can share your findings with her so that it will save her some time. Also, maybe you could give her a "Pet Warming" gift of some of your favorite foods, treats, toys, etc. Good luck!

oopsmyhalofello 10-21-2007 11:50 AM
I agree, if she asks you for your opinion then by all means be honest with her and tell her what you feel is best. If she doesn't ask however, just let sleeping dogs lie (no pun intended ;) ) and tell her how cute her puppy is.

Yorkiekids 10-21-2007 11:52 AM
Blame it on all of us. Tell her the different kinds of food we feed, and why. Explain it's not as inexpensive as you think, because of all the health issues that could arise from using a poor quality food.

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkiekids (Post 1450541)
Explain it's not as inexpensive as you think, because of all the health issues that could arise from using a poor quality food.
Health issues such as...?

MyFairLacy 10-21-2007 12:21 PM
Sure dogs have been known to live a long life on low-quality food, but just think how much longer they could have lived if they were on a high-quality food.

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 1450603)
Sure dogs have been known to live a long life on low-quality food, but just think how much longer they could have lived if they were on a high-quality food.
Due to what factors? I'm not sure that I've ever seen concrete evidence that the quality food is directly related to life span...
Plus, I'm comparing ingredients right now and other than ingredients that promote coat growth and quality, I'm really not seeing that much of a difference, to be quite honest....

MyFairLacy 10-21-2007 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1450609)
Due to what factors? I'm not sure that I've ever seen concrete evidence that the quality food is directly related to life span...
Plus, I'm comparing ingredients right now and other than ingredients that promote coat growth and quality, I'm really not seeing that much of a difference, to be quite honest....
There haven't been a lot of studies and there isn't any evidence right now that I know of. But think about people - if we just ate junk food and fast food and low-quality ingredients all the time and didn't eat a lot of fruits, veggies, etc, we're not going to live nearly as long on average than someone who eats a fresh, healthy, balanced diet. These low-quality foods basically meet the minimum requirements that they can meet - they are full of low quality meat and cheap grains and fillers. Sure, the dog can live off of it but is it as healthy as it could be? I don't think so... I have my dog on a raw diet - fresh, quality meats and organs and no cheap grains as fillers. She's very healthy, has a shiny coat and a lot of energy. I just know she's more healthy now than she would eating some low-quality food.

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 1450625)
There haven't been a lot of studies and there isn't any evidence right now that I know of.
Not that I know of either, which makes it all speculation, doesn't it. Do I think a healthy, well balanced diet is important? Of course I do and I believe that I plan the diet of my dogs accordingly. However, I think that the higher end dog foods *can* be a bit over rated. Like I said, I'm looking right now at Nutro Natural, Purina Pro Plan, Science Diet Direct (which, in addition to supplements and boiled chicken is what the Yorkies are fed) compared to Pedigree Gold from Wal Mart (which, in addition to Flax and Fish oil, is what our hound is fed) and there is no major difference other than oils (which I supplement) as far as ingredients in the two. They BOTH have fillers, Pedigree has corn whereas the others have rice.

I think the food itself is less important than monitoring the amount, exercise, supplements, etc. You can't throw dog food, let teh dog the all it wants and leave it all up to what it's comprised of to establish your dogs health.

edumma 10-21-2007 02:15 PM
what sold me on higher quality dog food was less food per meal serving and the smaller poops :D ,because they have less fillers in them the dogs body uses more of the food and less byproduct comes out the other end! HAHA! its like a treasure hunt in the backyard trying to find those little poops! HAHA
Eileen

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edumma (Post 1450829)
what sold me on higher quality dog food was less food per meal serving and the smaller poops :D ,because they have less fillers in them the dogs body uses more of the food and less byproduct comes out the other end! HAHA! its like a treasure hunt in the backyard trying to find those little poops! HAHA
Eileen
What kind of food do you feed? What I have doesn't tell me the ratio of fillers to byproduct, so I'm not sure how one can tell that...?:(

Raja's Mom 10-21-2007 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanksmom (Post 1450459)
:confused: OK My good friend was just given a mutt puppy. Shes very happy so far and has asked me for advice. Do I tell her how I feel about how to raise a dog(crate training and quality dog food) even though its not how she wants to do it? Shes a little testy about people disagreeing with her but she means well. I expect she will NOT like what I tell her. Normally Id skirt this kind of talk but I feel for the dogs sake I need to speak up. No dog should be feed OL Roy.
I would just share what I knew on the topic and let her make her decisions from there. Depends on how close you are - I have a friend who loves his dog & when I explained the difference in quality of foods (say Pedigree vs. Innova) he was shocked at some of the things that find their way into low-end foods and immediately starting researching on his own to find a better food.

In life there are always going to be people that "know it all", I think the best we can do is offer our humble opinions and they can take it or leave it either way.

Raja's Mom 10-21-2007 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1450852)
What kind of food do you feed? What I have doesn't tell me the ratio of fillers to byproduct, so I'm not sure how one can tell that...?:(
Fillers can be corn or wheat, so if you see either in the ingredients list it's safe to assume the food isn't great. Dogs can't digest these things so they're pointless additives to bump up the crude protein content - which might sound like it's a good thing but none of the protein is digestible, so it's worthless and just goes straight through causing undue stress on their systems.

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja's Mom (Post 1450899)
Fillers can be corn or wheat, so if you see either in the ingredients list it's safe to assume the food isn't great. Dogs can't digest these things so they're pointless additives to bump up the crude protein content - which might sound like it's a good thing but none of the protein is digestible, so it's worthless and just goes straight through causing undue stress on their systems.
Hmm...I know that corn, wheat and rice are fillers, I was just asking how you can tell what the ratio of fillers contained is. They are present in all 6 foods that I have sitting in my house right now...2 low end (Pedigree and Ole Roy) and 4 high end (Science Diet, Nutro Natural, Purina Pro Plan and Eukanuba) ...so I guess you can't assume that if a food contains one, it's automatically bad...hmmm.... Plus, I've never heard of corn, wheat and rice having protein in them so I don't see where they would bump up the protein level...:rolleyes:

myteddybear 10-21-2007 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1450553)
Health issues such as...?
I would do a search on dog food ingredients on the internet. You would be amazed at the things that are allowed in dog food and surprised at how they are able to hide it in the wording of the ingredients. I won't feed my dogs even the higher end dog foods, I can't trust them. We cook them real food.

As far as giving your opinion, you can certainly give your opinion. But I would do it in a non-confrontational way and then she can take your adivice or not but you will have given it and that's all you can do.

Kim

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by myteddybear (Post 1450932)
I would do a search on dog food ingredients on the internet. You would be amazed at the things that are allowed in dog food and surprised at how they are able to hide it in the wording of the ingredients.
Yes, you are right. I have researched it before and it IS frightening. Therefore, I thought it wise NOT to search for hot dog weeners!:p

myteddybear 10-21-2007 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1450945)
Yes, you are right. I have researched it before and it IS frightening. Therefore, I thought it wise NOT to search for hot dog weeners!:p

LOL :eek: I love Hot dogs and would never do a search on those! ;) I don't want to know!

Raja's Mom 10-21-2007 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1450918)
Hmm...I know that corn, wheat and rice are fillers, I was just asking how you can tell what the ratio of fillers contained is. They are present in all 6 foods that I have sitting in my house right now...2 low end (Pedigree and Ole Roy) and 4 high end (Science Diet, Nutro Natural, Purina Pro Plan and Eukanuba) ...so I guess you can't assume that if a food contains one, it's automatically bad...hmmm.... Plus, I've never heard of corn, wheat and rice having protein in them so I don't see where they would bump up the protein level...:rolleyes:
I don't think any companies actually list the ratio (I've never seen it), so instead of trying to find a good ratio it's best to avoid those ingredients all together.
By high-end I meant good quality. Maybe those foods are more expensive than most but they are low quality foods.

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja's Mom (Post 1450970)
I don't think any companies actually list the ratio (I've never seen it), so instead of trying to find a good ratio it's best to avoid those ingredients all together.
By high-end I meant good quality. Maybe those foods are more expensive than most but they are low quality foods.
Yeah, I've never seen it in simple terms either. But someone earlier mentioned that lower end foods had 'more fillers,' so I was curious as to how she could tell. Ideally, I would LOVE to find a food with no fillers at all, but I don't think there is one either, so the only option would be to feed all home prepared food, which I am not willing to do at this point. Hmmm...those are among the best foods on the market, so if they aren't considered higher quality, I'm not sure what is.

Raja's Mom 10-21-2007 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1450988)
Hmmm...those are among the best foods on the market, so if they aren't considered higher quality, I'm not sure what is.
Best foods in the supermarket maybe... but that isn't where one goes to find high quality food like Orijen, Solid Gold, Innova, Evo, California Natural, Artemis, Canidae, Chicken Soup, Evanger's, Go!, Merrick, Wellness, Wysong, and many more.

The difference isn't completely in the list of ingredients either - more so the sources. You can trust one of the companies I just named to use high quality sources fit for human consumption, not things condemned by our standards (diseased, rotten, toxic, heavy metal contaminated, etc) then shipped off to the Pedigree, Purina or Iams (Eukanuba) factories.

SugarMama 10-21-2007 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1450988)
Yeah, I've never seen it in simple terms either. But someone earlier mentioned that lower end foods had 'more fillers,' so I was curious as to how she could tell. Ideally, I would LOVE to find a food with no fillers at all, but I don't think there is one either, so the only option would be to feed all home prepared food, which I am not willing to do at this point. Hmmm...those are among the best foods on the market, so if they aren't considered higher quality, I'm not sure what is.
Here's a website I saw on a different thread this week that ranks dog food. BamaFan121s, I didn't look up the one's you referenced. I was surprised to find that the one we've been feeding Sugar was only a 3 star and it has beet pulp in it. I didn't know that beet pulp was bad or even that it was in her food. I thought we were feeding her a pretty good food. I'm now looking for a new type to feed her.

Dog Food Reviews

OP, maybe you can suggest your friend look at this site. Then it won't be you telling her a certain food isn't a good choice and she can make a more informed decision on her own.

Peters 10-21-2007 04:45 PM
ol roy is garbage and goes right through them no nutrition what so ever i would tell her you can get a better food for about $2 more a bag!

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja's Mom (Post 1451022)
Best foods in the supermarket maybe... but that isn't where one goes to find high quality food like Orijen, Solid Gold, Innova, Evo, California Natural, Artemis, Canidae, Chicken Soup, Evanger's, Go!, Merrick, Wellness, Wysong, and many more.

The difference isn't completely in the list of ingredients either - more so the sources. You can trust one of the companies I just named to use high quality sources fit for human consumption, not things condemned by our standards (diseased, rotten, toxic, heavy metal contaminated, etc) then shipped off to the Pedigree, Purina or Iams (Eukanuba) factories.
Ahh...the 'organic foods.' :rolleyes: I looked at those that you named and seems like the big difference is as you mentioned, they claim to have a better 'quality' ingredient, although the ingredients themselves are pretty much the same. Of course, what dog food company isn't going to tell you that their products are 'the best.' :rolleyes: Plus, all of those dog foods have fillers too, which as you mentioned earlier, means you can assume they are no good...? They must be 'high quality' fillers, huh? LOL.:p

Unfortunately, I'll have to take your word for it--from what we've tried so far, holisitc and organic dog foods don't seem to sit well with ours' digestive systems. (Bloody, runny poop! Blech!)

SugarMama--Thanks for that site...interesting.

MyFairLacy 10-21-2007 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja's Mom (Post 1451022)
Best foods in the supermarket maybe... but that isn't where one goes to find high quality food like Orijen, Solid Gold, Innova, Evo, California Natural, Artemis, Canidae, Chicken Soup, Evanger's, Go!, Merrick, Wellness, Wysong, and many more.

The difference isn't completely in the list of ingredients either - more so the sources. You can trust one of the companies I just named to use high quality sources fit for human consumption, not things condemned by our standards (diseased, rotten, toxic, heavy metal contaminated, etc) then shipped off to the Pedigree, Purina or Iams (Eukanuba) factories.
I very much agree that Science Diet and Purina Pro plan are not good quality foods. They are better than Ol' Roy but not nearly as high quality as the Premium food such as the ones listed above. I'm really not a fan of kibble period... I prefer a raw diet

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 05:45 PM
To me, this boarders less on 'quality dog food' and more on if you want to buy into that whole holistic/natural is better than everything else argument, which I really don't. (I don't do it for human food either.:rolleyes: ) But then again, that's just me.

edumma 10-21-2007 07:26 PM
Bama, I feed california natural kibble in the morning and natures variety raw for the evening meal. Other kibbles I feed in rotation are Innova, and natures variety kibble
Eileen:)

BamaFan121s 10-21-2007 07:54 PM
Innova was one of the ones that gave mine the bloody, runny poops. :(

This is all really making me re-think the whole cooking for them option, I gotta say...

sweetr72 10-22-2007 12:07 AM
If she asked for your opinion..give it to her..but in the end it will be her decision to make...dont fret too much about it :)

Dawn

Raja's Mom 10-22-2007 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peters (Post 1451314)
ol roy is garbage and goes right through them no nutrition what so ever i would tell her you can get a better food for about $2 more a bag!
Simply stated! I don't understand how people will reason with themselves that the good foods are "over rated" and it's all just hype when all they really want is to save a few dollars.

Read a book rather than just an ingredients list and feed your babies what they deserve, i.e. not Ol Roy lol :rolleyes:


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