YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community

YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   "Maggie Was Turned Away" (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/9656-maggie-turned-away.html)

hockeymom 06-24-2005 11:35 AM

If the shoe fits
 
I don’t think any of these posts were directed to anyone with a legitimate disability, it seemed to me, in my opinion, it was directed to people who were being dishonest in claiming they had a disability just so they could get their dogs into certain establishments. If you have a legitimate disability, by all means a service dog is perfect, but if you are dishonest with no legitimate disability………….WELL, then the shoe fits.

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diva pup
No one on this forum is suggesting that we use our animals as service dogs if we are not disabled. The fact is that the law is quite broad on purpose and allows anyone with a condition which prevents them from living their daily lives in a completely normal way to be considered disabled for the purposes of having a trained service animal who is allowed access to all public places.


I beg to differ Kim, i think that is exactly what you have done. I do not believe the law is intentionally that broad.I just do not think they thought people would abuse it in such a way that everything from a migraine to ADD would be considered a disability that altered the every day life of some people. If that were the case then almost everyone could claim a disability. I would find it almost laughable if it were not so sad.

Quote//To suggest otherwise is not just expressing an opinion but impugning the integrity of the members here and this is distressing.

I would be truly interested to know how many members here can actually claim a disability. You can try to turn this around to make it sound like I am attacking the members here, I certainly am not, but it does baffle me how many of them suddenly need a service dog or have had the idea of needing one suggested to them.THAT distresses me.

Dawn~ You are wrong. The law is that broad and migraines are included as a disability, and for good reason!

I am glad that you do not suffer from this debiilitating condition, but, if you did, I know you would change your mind. Migraines are so painful that many people have contemplated suicide rather than suffer throught them. To be able to have an animal who can detect the changes in body chemistry to allow you time to take the meication to prevent one is indeed a life saver!

There are many members here who suffer from this condition and many others, and if I have assisted them in their knowledge of the law such that they can now train their dog, or have it trained to assist them with their disability then I have performed a valuable task.

As an attorney, I have great respect for the law and I would never encourage anyone to abuse it. For you to suggest such a thing is more than unfortunate, it is deplorable.

jackandjill 06-24-2005 11:40 AM

A friend of mine bought me that sign when she kept hearing me complaining about the lack of parental supervision in the store. Please don't think that I don't love kids, have 4 of my own, and 15 grandchildren.My shop cat even comes in once in awhile if a customer lets her in, and she will follow them around and then go out when they leave. She has never knocked anything over. I am from England where dogs can go just about everywhere, and I wish it was like that here.

minniemn 06-24-2005 11:44 AM

I know it was upsetting for them not to let your yorkie in, even though you had the pup in a stroller.

But... if you let one person do it everyone will want to do it... and then you will have lawsuits for allowing small dogs, but not large ones... and the list goes on and on.

Many people are allergic to dogs, not just the hair but the dander, which goes airborn and can and will leave the mesh you have around the stroller... some kids are very afraid of animals ect.

I don't see a store changing their policy due to one person taking their business elsewhere, not even 100 people when it is a store the size of cabellas.

You really are a "guest" on any store owners property, and there are certian rules you need to follow.

As for service dogs, well they are another story... I don't agree with someone having their dog become a "service dog" for migraines, anxiety, or conditions that many, many people have... because then everyone will be running out to have one, and eventually that will ruin it for the serious medically disabled.

I am also disabled, and I don't use my disability to "get my way" or anything, I never thought to have my dog become a service dog, but they do help me out when I need it.

The dog we just had put to sleep, knew when I was going to fall (I use a scooter/wheelchair in public) and she would get in front of me and "break" my fall (she was a rotty) she knew when the nerve pain in my legs was too much to bear and she would lay across them, and the pain would subside. I could of used her in stores to pick up what I dropped, (which was often from the weakness I have) But I found out that there are many caring people out there who will do the same.

Could I use a service dog- yes, BUT not as bad as many others need them... I CAN function without one, and do... SOME PEOPLE CAN'T... and those are the ones that NEED service dogs... if we all ran out and got our dogs registered as Service Dogs, then I can gaurentee that eventually the laws would change, and those in REAL NEED would be left hanging.

I don't agree with working around the system to get what we want. Sure we want to bring our dogs in everywhere, but there are rules to follow.. and lets not ruin it for those in real need.

just my (probably unwanted .02)

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 11:46 AM

Here is the beginning of an article on the tasks a dog can be trained to do to assist a person with a psyciatric disorder like depression or panis attacks. These are qualifying disabilities under the ADA:

IAADP
International Association of
Assistance Dog Partners

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SERVICE DOG TASKs for PSYCHIATRIC DISABILITIES
Tasks to mitigate certain disabling illnesses classified as mental impairments under the Americans With Disabilities Act

Author: Joan Froling
Trainer Consultant
Sterling Service Dogs

SERVICE DOG TASKS FOR PANIC DISORDER, PTSD and DEPRESSION
According to the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA), a service animal must be individually trained to do work or tasks of benefit to a disabled individual in order to be legally elevated from pet status to service animal status. The following list identifies a number of tasks a service dog could be trained to do that would serve to mitigate a disabling condition classified as a psychiatric disability. In particular, the tasks were developed for those who become disabled by Panic Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome ( PTSD), or Depression, conditions attributed to a brain chemistry malfunction. The author, a mobility impaired service dog trainer who has been deeply involved in the assistance dog field for the past decade, initiated research into this new kind of assistance dog in 1997. She became familiar with these disorders through the input of early pioneers of the psychiatric service dog concept. Subsequent research has involved garnering input from experts in psychology and psychiatry and from patients to gain a better understanding of the symptoms, treatment goals, and ways in which partnership with a service dog might become a valuable adjunct to conventional therapy.

In addition to task training, it should also be recognized that housebreaking, basic obedience training and mastering the behaviors of no nuisance barking, no aggressive behavior, and no inappropriate sniffing or intrusion into another person or dog’s space are an essential part of educating any dog for a career as an assistance dog.

Assistance Work or Tasks for Psychiatric Disabilities

I. Assistance in a Medical Crisis

II. Treatment Related Assistance

III. Assistance Coping With Emotional Overload

IV. Security Enhancement Tasks

I. ASSISTANCE IN A MEDICAL CRISIS

A service dog can learn a number of helpful tasks to assist his partner to cope during a sudden flare up of symptoms, medication side effects, or in a situation requiring outside help.


(The limit on the post makes it impossible foer me to list the tasks identified but I will list them in another post or you can read by going to the website yourself)

jackandjill 06-24-2005 11:48 AM

Minniemn, You are one great lady, and I commend you for being such a wonderful person. I wish the whole world thought like you.

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 11:49 AM

Here is a description of some of the actual tasks which a dog can be trained to perform.
Bring Medication to Alleviate Symptoms

Dog assists partner to cope with nausea, cramps, dizziness, other medication side effects or the fear paralysis of PTSD or the sudden waves of terror, chest pains and respiratory distress of a severe panic attack by fetching antidote medication to alleviate the severity of the symptoms.

Dog trained to fetch medication from another room if kept in a cupboard in a basket.

Dog trained to fetch purse with medication in the home ( will search and drag.)

Dog trained to bring purse with medication from a specific place, such as the outer office, closet or bathroom vanity where it is usually kept.

Dog trained to locate a heavy purse sitting on hotel room dresser or desk or chair by following directional commands and drag-deliver it to his partner.




Bring a Beverage So Human Partner Can Swallow Medication

This complex task involves a sequence of skills, takes four to six months to master.

Dog trained to fetch a beverage to enable the human partner to swallow the medication.

Must master the skills of: 1) going to the kitchen from another room to pull open a refrigerator door or cupboard door with a strap, 2) picking up the beverage from refrigerator shelf before the door swings shut, 3) carrying an ice cold beverage to the partner in another room, 4) going back, if need be, to shut the refrigerator door or 5) fetching a basket containing a beverage, plastic glass, possibly other small items that may spill out if the basket is not properly carried by it’s handle from the cupboard shelf to the partner in another room.




Bring The Emergency Phone During a Crisis

Enables the human partner to contact a doctor, therapist or other in a support system when experiencing alarming medication side effects, terror or respiratory distress from a panic attack, or a flashback. An individual suffering from depression, possibly with suicidal ideation, also needs to be able to reach a supporting person or agency. Retrieval of the portable phone can be very useful in other situations too. (Training Note: this should be made a “place command,” as asking a dog to visually search the house is unreliable, especially if the phone is left on a counter or piece of furniture above the dog’s line of sight. It is best to locate the charger unit on the floor in a room with two entrances. If possible, the emergency phone should never be used except during practice sessions. This will help ensure its availability during a crisis.)

Dog is trained to bring the handler a portable phone. If the room where the emergency phone is located has two entrances, the dog should be specifically taught to find the second entrance in case the first is blocked so the task can be completed. The end goal is to successfully train a service dog to bring the phone to any room in the house when needed.




Answer the Doorbell

When situations occur in which the handler urgently needs help but cannot get to the front door to let someone into the home due to physical incapacity from drug interactions, injuries that occurred due to lightheadedness, fainting, other side effects, or illness, the service dog could assist by opening the front door and escorting emergency personnel or a member of the support system to the handler’s location.

Dog trained to tug strap to open lever handle of the front door to let in emergency personnel or members of support system on command or in response to doorbell itself.

Dog trained to escort the person to the handler’s location.




Call 911 or Suicide Hotline on K-9 Rescue Phone

People with physical disabilities have reported going through periods of severe depression and not a few admit they’ve contemplated suicide. Those with a mental disability like PTSD are equally susceptible to developing this mood disorder or experiencing a sudden exacerbation of its symptoms. Scientists view it as a biological problem, not purely psychological. With some the condition becomes a lifelong struggle. A service dog can improve the safety of its partner whenever the mood disorder becomes life threatening. One task to consider is schooling the dog to operate the K-9 Rescue phone to summon help during a crisis. [available at www.ablephone.com]

Dog trained to call 911 / any preprogrammed number by depressing the huge white button on a K-9 Rescue speaker-phone.




Bark For Help in an Emergency

This task could be useful if someone has close neighbors willing to respond if they see the front door wide open and the dog in the doorway or on the porch barking his head off. Can work well in multi-family housing units. Many handlers tell the neighbors that if they hear the service dog barking, to immediately assume they are “in trouble” and respond accordingly. Handler will have to prevent the dog from doing nuisance barking, otherwise like the boy that cried “wolf,” no one will pay any attention to the service dog barking in a crisis. Lacking a K-9 Rescue phone, unable to afford Lifeline or an alarm company service, this task offers a low budget alternative if partner falls down, injures self, has an alarming drug interaction crisis or needs assistance for another reason and happens to be home alone.

Dog trained to open front door anytime of day or night and bark for help.

REDFROG 06-24-2005 11:52 AM

I don't mind if someone tells me I can't bring Asia into a store. As long as they are polite about it. I keep Asia confind behind the counter at my job because I know that some people do have a problem with dogs. ( I know, hard to believe someone can be scared of such a lovable, cute puppy) But most of my customers love to meet her.

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 12:01 PM

Here is an article from a migraine sufferer whose Doberman detects her migraines:

In 1986 I purchased my first home for one reason only - to have a fenced yard so I could buy a Doberman. I moved into my house in April, and in July I brought my little puppy "Chelsea" home. It also happened to be the same year I suffered an injury that left me permanently disabled. Little did I know the impact "Chelsea" would have on my life. She was my best friend, and a few years down the road became my service dog.

But one other great thing came out of our relationship. I became a DRU volunteer. I first started by doing home checks and of course, "Chelsea" always came with me. People fell in love with her and she helped many Dobes get adopted.

"Chelsea" gave me a reason for living and became the center of my life. As I could not bend, she learned to pick up things even as small as a dime, and also to bring me my walker. She loved to go grocery shopping and would help pull the cart and get items off the shelves for me. In the house she got clothes out of bottom drawers, even helped carry laundry and learned to fold sheets. She also was able to predict my chronic migraines and alert me so I could take medication to lessen the attack. We visited many schools and groups, showing people what service dogs could do, and even helped some get dogs. She also changed the thoughts of many in regard to Dobermans, as everyone just gravitated toward her.

When "Chelsea" was five, I fostered my first Dobe for DRU - an abandoned and abused young dog. I named him Zephyr, because despite his abuse, to me he was A Gentle Breeze as is the definition of Zephyr in the dictionary. Well, we just couldn't let him go and I adopted Zephyr. He and "Chelsea" were the best of friends. When we would do home checks, I would bring both of them and Zephyr, having natural ears, made many who had put "cropped only" down on their applications, change their minds and adopt natural eared dobes. He also became both a therapy and service dog and would join us when we visited various places.

Little did I know that 18 months later "Chelsea" would be diagnosed with terminal liver disease. Without Zephyr I don't know if I could have handled it. He gave me strength and comfort.

Zephyr had learned everything "Chelsea" could do as a service dog just by watching her. He was amazing. He even could take the socks off my feet without touching my toes. During "Chelsea's" illness, Zephyr began to take over the house duties, giving "Chelsea" a rest. He could pick up anything, get the cordless phone, carry bundles, helped with the laundry - he was a godsend. I don't know what I would have done if he was not with us.

"Chelsea" survived 15 months after her diagnosis. She passed away in my arms on a rainy and windy Friday night, 4 months to the day after celebrating her 8th birthday, knowing it would be her last. Zephyr and I grieved together.

Zephyr continued to be my inside helper and demo dog, visiting many schools and community groups, as well as Children's Hospital. He came with me on our DRU home checks, often sitting in the laps of prospective adopters. He won many hearts and helped many Dobes get adopted.

Zephyr is almost 9 now and retired, but he still helps in the house, and he loves to show off at DRU's annual picnics. His favorite place is on the loveseat, and he loves to watch TV. Although I have a new service dog, he and Zephyr are the best of friends, and Zephyr likes his job of being the house protector when Keefe and I are out. Life would not be complete for Zephyr if he didn't get his apple everyday and have DRU's picnics to look forward to so he can show off to everyone just what a great service dog a Doberman can be.

Ann & Dobes

hockeymom 06-24-2005 12:06 PM

SoCalyorkieluv, Lighten up, this is not a court room, it is just people giving different opinions on a subject. They are entitled to their own opinion. It is not necessary to beat them over the head with your point of view. Some of us just don't agree with you.

Sydney'sMom 06-24-2005 12:10 PM

I had a friend once who's mother is in a wheelchair and was very soap-boxy in her way of thinking about people with disabilities. For example she would get spitting mad if an able-bodied person used the automatic door button that opens building doors for those in wheelchairs. Now...personally...I generally pull doors open with my hands...but if I am carrying a large box I may be tempted to push the handicap door button to assist me. The flaw in my friend's theory is that by using that button, I (an able bodied person), are in no way ruining that button for those in wheelchairs. The button will work just the same for them whether I touched it or not.

I believe (just my opinion) that this is the same situation. There is no limit to the amount of service animals in circulation at any given time. If Joe Smo decides to falsely register his dog as a service animal...he may be doing something unethical...but he isn't keeping a handicapped person from getting one. We should be at a day and age when we realize that not all handicaps are visable. A deaf person doesn't look any different...sometimes neither does a blind person. Many diabetics use a service animal to sense their blood sugar before it becomes too low for them to function. All of these people would look as if they are not disabled.

I don't believe that this law will be tightened up due to abuse because it can't be. That would be crossing the fine line into discrimination. If some of our memebers need service dogs...I say more power to them. For those of our members that do not need/and would never consider a service dog...then don't register your pet.

Carters Mom 06-24-2005 12:13 PM

I think members are getting tired of having service animal statements crammed down their throats. I don't think there is a single member on this forum that hasn't seen at least one statement somewhere from one of the members saying that "my dogs are service animals." Its wearing thin. Get a t-shirt.

minniemn 06-24-2005 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Here is an article from a migraine sufferer whose Doberman detects her migraines:

In 1986 I purchased my first home for one reason only - to have a fenced yard so I could buy a Doberman. I moved into my house in April, and in July I brought my little puppy "Chelsea" home. It also happened to be the same year I suffered an injury that left me permanently disabled. Little did I know the impact "Chelsea" would have on my life. She was my best friend, and a few years down the road became my service dog.

But one other great thing came out of our relationship. I became a DRU volunteer. I first started by doing home checks and of course, "Chelsea" always came with me. People fell in love with her and she helped many Dobes get adopted.

"Chelsea" gave me a reason for living and became the center of my life. As I could not bend, she learned to pick up things even as small as a dime, and also to bring me my walker. She loved to go grocery shopping and would help pull the cart and get items off the shelves for me. In the house she got clothes out of bottom drawers, even helped carry laundry and learned to fold sheets. She also was able to predict my chronic migraines and alert me so I could take medication to lessen the attack. We visited many schools and groups, showing people what service dogs could do, and even helped some get dogs. She also changed the thoughts of many in regard to Dobermans, as everyone just gravitated toward her.

When "Chelsea" was five, I fostered my first Dobe for DRU - an abandoned and abused young dog. I named him Zephyr, because despite his abuse, to me he was A Gentle Breeze as is the definition of Zephyr in the dictionary. Well, we just couldn't let him go and I adopted Zephyr. He and "Chelsea" were the best of friends. When we would do home checks, I would bring both of them and Zephyr, having natural ears, made many who had put "cropped only" down on their applications, change their minds and adopt natural eared dobes. He also became both a therapy and service dog and would join us when we visited various places.

Little did I know that 18 months later "Chelsea" would be diagnosed with terminal liver disease. Without Zephyr I don't know if I could have handled it. He gave me strength and comfort.

Zephyr had learned everything "Chelsea" could do as a service dog just by watching her. He was amazing. He even could take the socks off my feet without touching my toes. During "Chelsea's" illness, Zephyr began to take over the house duties, giving "Chelsea" a rest. He could pick up anything, get the cordless phone, carry bundles, helped with the laundry - he was a godsend. I don't know what I would have done if he was not with us.

"Chelsea" survived 15 months after her diagnosis. She passed away in my arms on a rainy and windy Friday night, 4 months to the day after celebrating her 8th birthday, knowing it would be her last. Zephyr and I grieved together.

Zephyr continued to be my inside helper and demo dog, visiting many schools and community groups, as well as Children's Hospital. He came with me on our DRU home checks, often sitting in the laps of prospective adopters. He won many hearts and helped many Dobes get adopted.

Zephyr is almost 9 now and retired, but he still helps in the house, and he loves to show off at DRU's annual picnics. His favorite place is on the loveseat, and he loves to watch TV. Although I have a new service dog, he and Zephyr are the best of friends, and Zephyr likes his job of being the house protector when Keefe and I are out. Life would not be complete for Zephyr if he didn't get his apple everyday and have DRU's picnics to look forward to so he can show off to everyone just what a great service dog a Doberman can be.

Ann & Dobes

But this lady had more issues going on than mirgraines... she could not bend ect... this dog did ALOT more than detect migraines, she got things off the shelf when shopping ect... Some migraines are terrible, with intense pain.... and I am not denying the fact that some anxieties are debilitating... and having a dog to detect them, comfort them ect is great- but service dogs are so much more than that... they help disabled people do normal everyday functions... answer the phone, pick up things, detect seizures, alert the owner to many things, open the fridge, be eyes for the blind and ears for the deaf.

I think the above story isn't just about a dog who could detect migraines, it is about a dog who helped a lady live life, and aided her in activities of daily living.

I don't know if you are finding story after story to change my mind, or if it is for general knowledge... but there is a HUGE difference in someone who NEEDS a service dog for daily function, and one who may be able to find some disability they have to get their dog licensed so they can take their dog with them into stores.

We all have some sort of disability if we look hard enough, but we all don't NEED a service dog- like I tell my kids there is a HUGE difference between a NEED and a WANT.

I have a handicap parking sticker, BUT there are days I don't NEED it, do I use it anyways? NO WAY, there is no way I am going to take a spot when I know there is someone else who will need it more than me that day. There are days I do need it, and I use it- (I mean really need it, not just because it is raining or I only have a couple things to get, or I am running late- there is a difference in this sort of need and a real need)

There are people who abuse every sort of system out there to help those in need, which unfortunatly takes away from those in real need... hopefully people here will consider twice before running to get their dog licensed as a service dog for a "disability" that chances are, 50-60 percent of people here have, just so they can "legally" bring their dog into stores.

I am not talking about disabilities that affect your daily life, to a point where you can not perform activities of daily living.

Thanks JackandJill, I didn't expect to read that... I appreciate the compliment.

Carters Mom 06-24-2005 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minniemn
But this lady had more issues going on than mirgraines... she could not bend ect... this dog did ALOT more than detect migraines, she got things off the shelf when shopping ect... Some migraines are terrible, with intense pain.... and I am not denying the fact that some anxieties are debilitating... and having a dog to detect them, comfort them ect is great- but service dogs are so much more than that... they help disabled people do normal everyday functions... answer the phone, pick up things, detect seizures, alert the owner to many things, open the fridge, be eyes for the blind and ears for the deaf.

I think the above story isn't just about a dog who could detect migraines, it is about a dog who helped a lady live life, and aided her in activities of daily living.

I don't know if you are finding story after story to change my mind, or if it is for general knowledge... but there is a HUGE difference in someone who NEEDS a service dog for daily function, and one who may be able to find some disability they have to get their dog licensed so they can take their dog with them into stores.

We all have some sort of disability if we look hard enough, but we all don't NEED a service dog- like I tell my kids there is a HUGE difference between a NEED and a WANT.

I have a handicap parking sticker, BUT there are days I don't NEED it, do I use it anyways? NO WAY, there is no way I am going to take a spot when I know there is someone else who will need it more than me that day. There are days I do need it, and I use it- (I mean really need it, not just because it is raining or I only have a couple things to get, or I am running late- there is a difference in this sort of need and a real need)

There are people who abuse every sort of system out there to help those in need, which unfortunatly takes away from those in real need... hopefully people here will consider twice before running to get their dog licensed as a service dog for a "disability" that chances are, 50-60 percent of people here have, just so they can "legally" bring their dog into stores.

I am not talking about disabilities that affect your daily life, to a point where you can not perform activities of daily living.

Thanks JackandJill, I didn't expect to read that... I appreciate the compliment.

A M E N !!!

pixiepooh 06-24-2005 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98vett
I had to comment one more time - I can understand the rule about dogs in stores where food is sold....but in CABELA'S it's HUNTING stuff - no food so I don't see the reasoning of the employees thinking about a yorkie in a stroller at all....I think you did the right thing contacting them and your hubby was GREAT to say what he said !! Way to go hubby !

I totally agree. If it were a grocery store or perhaps a deli, I wouldn't mind if an employee would ask me not to bring my dogs in... As long as they say it nicely. The last time I was asked not to bring my baby with me was at Fry's electronics. I was told that because they have a cafe' in the middle of the store, bringing a dog in the vicinity would be considered a health code violation. I would've understood that if he didn't stretch his arms out blocking my way to enter the store as if I was some filthy animal trying to get in.... I was furious!!! I just said "Excuse me, I understood what you said. You don't have to do that." If I wasn't carrying my baby with me, it wouldn't be pretty :D

chachi 06-24-2005 12:36 PM

In our state it wouldn't matter if you had another disability. The signs state seeing eye dogs only.

Brittie123 06-24-2005 12:38 PM

Kim we are all more than aware of what dogs CAN be trained to do, I guess we are all a bit confused as to why you make comment after comment about how all of your dogs are service dogs and yet you also post about how you cant get them to drop things, even though you have stated that getting your keys are one of the "services" you are unable to perform "normally" during your day.

You of all people always tell people to "stick to the thread topic" and yet in posts about flying with your yorkies and inquiring about airline procedure for a NORMAL yorkie you feel the need to post about your "service animals" which has nothing to do with the topic. I think its just time to move on and quit talking about the same thing over and over again??? Its obvious you are the only one on here who think they have disabilities bad enough to label their yorkies service animals, so I don't know what you think it is accomplishing to keep talking about it. The only possible outcome is someone without a legit disability using this law to their advantage wrongly which you have even stated you don't wish to do, so why keep talking about it over and over and over again?

red98vett 06-24-2005 12:39 PM

WOW....I guess I'd like to say something simple.

A REAL Handicapped Person should be allowed to have a professionally trained Service Dog - I totally agreed with Minnimin ...

Having a 'Service Dog' just so you can take them everywhere just seems wrong to me - It DOES take away from the people with real handicaps who cannot function without help.

It's just my opinion but the words 'Service' dog get thrown around LOTS on this site and it sure gives the wrong idea that just anyone can train their dog just so they can have access to places where they normally wouldn't.

I've read a GREAT story about a service dog - Debbie at Cossetts Closet has a yorkie trained to dial 911. That is a real need - she has seizures.

Someone who has a headache or doesn't want to bend over isn't in need but that's just my opinion - In my own life right now - my REAL life and all the people I know - Not one of them would need a service dog - no one I know is that handicapped - but I CAN think of people in my life who would want to SAY their dog is trained for this purpose and just so they can have free reign anywhere they want to go.

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 12:42 PM

Minniemn:

I totally respect your .02 and we can respectfully disagree on this point.

You are a perfect candidate for a service animal and I hope you do not mind me using you as an example. What if you were somewhere without your rottie and you fell? If he could have prevented the fall, then it would have been worth any inconvenience you may have caused others even if they do suffer from allergies to dog dander.

The other good fact is that a disabled person with a service dog can choose at will when and where to take his/her dog. They can decide not to take the animal if they are going somewhere where they themselves would not feel comfortable having the dog, but the fact is THE OPTION WOULD BE THERE. This option is not only legal, it is encouraged.

If you travel to France, Germany or England people there are used to dogs everywhere so if they can do it there, I just wish it were more accepted here.

I certainly wouldn't want people who could benefit from a service animal not to do it because they were worried about the negative reaction. I think it is a beneficial law for dogs and people and no one should feel guilty about using it to their benefit if their situation warrants it and they choose to.

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chachi
In our state it wouldn't matter if you had another disability. The signs state seeing eye dogs only.

This is a misconception and why I keep posting on the subject. Not everyone knows the law.

The service dog law is a Federal law and, as such, it applies and takes precedence over any local or state law. Even if a state law only allows seeing eye dogs, the federal law supercedes that and allows all service animals.

Missy's Mommy 06-24-2005 12:51 PM

I usually avoid threads like these because I dont want to be bashed for having an opinion but I do find this thread very interesting and want to comment. Here it goes....

My Dad, Aunt & Uncle are all deaf, my dad can hear some with help of a cochlear implant he recently received but my Aunt & Uncle are completely deaf. I asked my Aunt her thoughts on this subject in an email today and have pasted her response below. I am sure there are deaf people out there who may agree with her and some who may not. We are all entitled to our opinion I am just glad to be able to share hers with you.

This is my aunts response to my email. I asking her what she thought about training her dogs to be service dog's and taking them with her to help her at Dr. apts, going to the store and out to dinner. She has a Golden Retriever & a Dachshund BTW.

Peanut and Cookie are very good to alert me when someone is at the door knocking, but I do not wish to bring them with me in stores, restaurants or my Dr. appointments. I am deaf and I am very proud that I can go to out in public just like you and not need any special assistance, us deafies not want to be looked at as incompetent we want same rights as you. I think service dog sounds like good idea for blind but us deafies have other senses that can help us in public, not need our dogs.

Carters Mom 06-24-2005 12:55 PM

Kim:

Why not start your own webpage addressing this issue. The only problem is -- to reproduce all those articles you quote, you'll need to get permission to have them on your site.

You could however, provide a link to the original site for people to read it for themselves.

It seems that there are pages and pages and pages here at YT that you keep discussing the same thing -- even posting the same articles more than once. In the future, you could just direct inquiries to your website and set up an online chat to assist people that are needing help with this issue.

minniemn 06-24-2005 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Minniemn:

I certainly wouldn't want people who could benefit from a service animal not to do it because they were worried about the negative reaction. I think it is a beneficial law for dogs and people and no one should feel guilty about using it to their benefit if their situation warrants it and they choose to.

I completely agree with you, if someone needs this service, then they should use it.

I am just saying there is a line that should be drawn on the use of service dogs used in public... that is all. (all of our dogs do some sort of service to us, mostly with lots of love, hugs and kisses)

At first I thought my dog was "tripping" me since she was always there when I fell... I eventually realized she was "protecting" me... I never thought to have her be a service dog, she would of been a great one though.

Well, have a great weekend... I won't have computer access this weekend. (ok stop clapping now ;) )

red98vett 06-24-2005 12:56 PM

I have a feeling this got WAY off the subject .....it's interesting.... but I have a feeling not alot of people really have the need here for the laws, as most of our yorkies are our loved family members -I'm happy just to be able to come home to mine - take them to Petsmart when I want and not worry about the rest.

I do agree that Service dogs provide valuable functions when needed.

....but..... I'm the Service Dog in my house - I'm trained to pick up...and and alert to any problems and the girls wouldn't have it any other way.

Oh and Missysmommie - your deaf aunt sounds like a truly wonderful person - how proud she is and that was so good to read

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 12:56 PM

My son is hearing impaired and several of my dogs are trained to alert to sounds that he cannot hear. I feel this is necessary for his safety. If he is somewhere and doesn't hear the sund a big truck makes when it is backing up, he could be injured.

It is a safety issue for me.

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minniemn

Well, have a great weekend... I won't have computer access this weekend. (ok stop clapping now ;) )

:lol tears :lol tears :lol tears

You are too cute! It's been fun discussing one of my passions with you and I appreciate your point of view. Thanks for participating in such a kind and respectful way.

Have a great weekend.

minniemn 06-24-2005 12:59 PM

Missy's mom- I also have an almost deaf neice- she is young still (6th grade) and learned to read lips at a very young age. The school has an interpreter for her (sign language) she won't even look at her, because she want's to looked at as "normal" and since she can read lips she is doing ok.

She also has hearing aids, but I am not so sure they work well in real public places like school since there are so many noises.

Thanks for sharing your aunts reaction... I think my neice will have the same reply.

minniemn 06-24-2005 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
:lol tears :lol tears :lol tears

You are too cute! It's been fun discussing one of my passions with you and I appreciate your point of view. Thanks for participating in such a kind and respectful way.

Have a great weekend.


:) thank you also for sharing your knowledge and respecting other points of view.....

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 01:03 PM

My Passion
 
I became passionate about this issue after reading this article:
One man's fight for disabled rights

By: WILLIAM FINN BENNETT - Staff Writer

James Woodrow has lived with two kinds of pain for more than a decade. One is physical ---- the torture of two debilitating nervous system disorders, sometimes so bad "it feels (like) razor blades or battery acid under my skin."

The other is the anguish and indignation the disabled man feels every time he walks into a store or restaurant with his service dog, Rocky, and hears the words: "You can't come in here with that dog," the 54-year-old Temecula resident said.

While most businesses don't think twice about allowing a blind person to bring a guide dog into a store or restaurant, that is often not the case with service dogs that assist those with other disabilities, especially when the disability is not visible, experts say.

The animals help the disabled in a number of ways. Some are able to detect the onset of a seizure, or provide balance to those with trouble moving around. Others help those with psychological disorders stay calm. The Michigan-based International Association of Assistance Dog Partners estimates that 20,000 disabled people in the United States use service dogs, including guide dogs for the blind and signal dogs for the hearing impaired.

Rocky accompanies Woodrow wherever he goes. If Woodrow falls, he leans on Rocky to get back on his feet. When he struggles to walk, Rocky pulls him along.

"With my dog and my faith in God, I was able to walk again," Woodrow said on a recent morning. "He's everything to me."

In the early 1990s, Woodrow was diagnosed with reflex sympathetic dystrophy syndrome and fibromyalgia. Both of those conditions cause severe chronic pain.

When his suffering becomes unbearable, Woodrow locks himself inside the recreational vehicle he calls home, draws the blinds and prays for the torture to end ---- often for days at a time, he said.

Once his pain returns to a manageable level, Woodrow ventures outside with Rocky for a bit of shopping or a cup of coffee at a local restaurant. Often, he seeks nothing more than the solace of being around other people, he said.

But the simple, everyday pleasures most take for granted are anything but a given for disabled people like Woodrow.

Over the last few years, Woodrow says he has been barred from entering dozens of stores, restaurants and other businesses in Riverside and San Diego counties. And while federal law stipulates that such licenses are not necessary, Woodrow took out a state service-dog license for Rocky in 2003, just to try and avoid conflict with business owners, he said. Rocky wears the tag around his neck.

Yet, despite that precaution, Woodrow continues to be barred from some local businesses, he said. And on several occasions, he has made a citizen's arrest of managers who refused to allow him access with Rocky.

Discrimination common

Woodrow is not alone in his plight, says a spokeswoman for the statewide disabled-rights advocacy group Protection & Advocacy, Inc.

"We see it as a widespread problem," said staff attorney Diana Honig. "Based on the number of calls we get, there is a high level of frustration at the lack of access."

She said she attributes much of the discrimination to ignorance of the law and ignorance of the fact that many people suffer from disabilities that are not visible.

Discrimination of all types against those with hidden disabilities is especially common, according to Marilyn Golden, policy analyst with the Berkeley-based Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund.

"(It's) a huge issue," she said. "They encounter this all the time."

Businesses that evade the federal law or choose to ignore it do so at their own peril, she said.

"(They) are usually the ones who end up being sued," Golden said.

The U.S. Census bureau pegs the number of disabled in the country at 49 million people. Of those, about 12.6 million are categorized as severely disabled.

Whenever Woodrow enters a business with Rocky for the first time, he said, he explains that he is disabled and presents the manager with printed information on the Americans with Disabilities Act requiring that businesses allow disabled people access with their service animals. Even then, however, some employees still refuse to serve the man and ask him to leave, Woodrow said.

And that's when things begin to escalate, he said, as he insists they obey the federal law. Tempers flare and accusations begin to fly. Woodrow calls the police, saying he is making a citizen's arrest, and managers call the police, too, asking officers to arrest him for disturbing the peace. On more than one occasion, both have occurred.

(continued on next post)

SoCalyorkiLvr 06-24-2005 01:06 PM

Who's to blame?

Some of the business managers Woodrow has clashed with over the last several months say the man is out of control.

One of the most recent incidents occurred Feb. 6, when Woodrow went into Siggy's Restaurant in Murrieta.

Owner Jim Spiropoulos said that when he saw Woodrow enter the restaurant with Rocky, it was at the peak of lunch hour business. Woodrow was standing in line with his dog at the self-service counter when Spiropoulos spotted him, he said.

"I politely told him, 'no dogs allowed,' and he wouldn't take no from me and started calling me names and using profanity," Spiropoulos said.

"He went off on me right away; he might have said something (about Rocky being a service animal), but I didn't hear it," the restaurant owner said, adding that Woodrow then stormed out of the restaurant.

Coincidentally, two animal control officers were sitting on the patio near the entrance at the time, Spiropoulos said. When they saw a visibly upset Woodrow exiting the restaurant with his dog, they approached him and asked what the problem was. At that point, one of the officers went back inside and informed Spiropoulos that Woodrow was disabled and that Rocky was his service animal, requiring that the man be served.

Spiropoulos said that he then went outside and asked Woodrow to come back in the restaurant, so he could serve him. But Woodrow cursed him, he said, and told him he was going to sue him, before leaving.

Later in the day, Woodrow returned to the restaurant with a Murrieta police sergeant and made a citizen's arrest of Spiropoulos.

The restaurant owner said he had no idea Woodrow was disabled and that Rocky was his service dog, in part, he said, because Rocky had no special harness or vest like the ones that guide dogs for the blind typically wear. Under federal law, no special tags, collars or other identifiers are necessary for those accompanied by service animals. Nor are the disabled required to present proof of either their disability or documentation of the animal's status as a service dog.

Woodrow tells a different story about the altercation.

He said that when he first entered the restaurant, he immediately approached Spiropoulos, identified himself as having a diagnosed disability and told him that Rocky was a service dog, protected under the Americans with Disability Act.

"I bent down and showed him the certification tag to show him Rocky was certified by the state as a service animal," Woodrow said.

He said that Spiropoulos began yelling at him to get out of the restaurant. "It didn't matter what I told him," Woodrow said. "He was practically jumping over the counter."

During a similar confrontation at the Temecula Target store on Dec. 23, Woodrow made a citizen's arrest of a store employee who allegedly denied him entrance to the store and assaulted him. Store managers also called the police, and officers issued Woodrow a citation for disturbing the peace and threatening store employees.

Educating business owners

Willa Bagwell, the manager of Animal Friends of the Valleys, the local animal shelter, said last week that she recently drew up a brochure explaining Americans with Disabilities Act requirements after Woodrow appealed to her to do something to help him and others who use service animals. In recent weeks, she said, she has distributed many of the brochures to local businesses and city officials.

Spiropoulos said that he was unaware of the law, and that if he had known ---- and Woodrow had not lost his temper so quickly ---- things might have gone differently.

"Now I am fully aware," he said. "There's no way everyone can be aware of every single law in the United States; I bet you 95 percent of business owners (don't know about) the law."

Recently, the cities of Murrieta and Temecula worked with Animal Friends to develop brochures on businesses' obligations under federal law, relating to the disabled and service animals, officials said last week. Both cities now include the brochures in their business-license renewal packets, they said.

"It is something that we weren't real familiar with, in terms of service dogs," said Murrieta Human Resources Manager Chris Paxton.

And in the case of Temecula, a city official said last week that Woodrow was part of the reason the city decided to create its brochure.

"Woodrow raised this as an issue and requested the city provide the information to the community," said Grant Yates, assistant to the city manager.

The Americans with Disabilities Act allows businesses to ask if an animal is a service animal and what task the animal has been trained to perform. But neither owners nor employees can ask for proof of the person's disability nor ask questions about the disability.

Businesses may only ask the person to remove the animal if the animal owner is not able to control it or if the animal poses a direct threat to others. The federal law takes precedence over any local heath codes that may restrict animal access to restaurants and other types of business.

Just like guide dogs for the blind and signal dogs for the hearing impaired, service animals are allowed access with their disabled owner to all businesses open to the public, including restaurants, hotels, grocery stores, hospitals and medical centers.

Those who violate Americans with Disabilities Act requirements may be required to pay monetary damages and penalties, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

Protection & Advocacy Inc. attorney Honig said that in her opinion, discrimination against those with service animals is just as egregious as "a sign on the door saying, 'No blacks allowed.'"

Crusading for disabled rights

The pastor of Temecula's Hope Lutheran Church, Skip McComas, said last week that he has ministered spiritual guidance to Woodrow for the past two years and has gotten to know him fairly well.

He attributes much of Woodrow's anger to the years of discrimination the man has suffered, the clergyman said.

"After so many years of piling up, I think it has led to maybe a shorter fuse than he had in the beginning," McComas said.

Woodrow's appearance may be adding to the problem, he added.

"When you first look at Jim, he looks more homeless than disabled, and I think that may be the cause of their reaction," McComas said.

But he certainly doesn't expect Woodrow to fold up his tent and disappear into the night, he said.

"He's on a crusade to educate ... the community about the disabled and their service animals," McComas said.

Woodrow said that someone has to stand up for the disabled.

"One reason I am involved is to end this ignorance about the disabled," he said. "In America, we are better than that. As long as I have a breath, I am going to fight these people."

Contact staff writer William Finn Bennett at (909) 676-4315, Ext. 2624, or wbennett@californian.com.

Americans with Disabilities Act and service animals

Definition of disability: "a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities ... "

Definition of a service animal: "any guide dog, signal dog or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform ... "

ADA rules applying to businesses and other organizations open to the public:



businesses and organizations must allow people with disabilities to bring their animals into all areas where customers are normally allowed to go.


law applies to all businesses open to the public, including restaurants, hotels, grocery and department stores, hospitals and medical offices.


businesses may not require special ID cards for the animal or ask about the person's disability


businesses can only ask for the animal's removal, if it is out of control or if the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.


businesses that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises


violators of the ADA can be required to pay money damages and penalties.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168