Sillyjacki - Where in houston are you ? I'm here too !

I had to comment one more time - I can understand the rule about dogs in stores where food is sold....but in CABELA'S it's HUNTING stuff - no food so I don't see the reasoning of the employees thinking about a yorkie in a stroller at all....I think you did the right thing contacting them and your hubby was GREAT to say what he said !! Way to go hubby !

Right at the moment I'm in Columbus, OH... This is my last summer at "home" before I move to Houston for good! I am a student at Rice, so I spend most of my time in that area.

Only guide dogs are allowed in UK stores and personally that's how I like it, I don't want to make peole any more anti dog than they already are and if shops allowed dogs in I think it would scare some people and and disgust others, it just isn't worth making other people uncomfortable for a few minutes shopping. Mine wouldn't enjoy shoping anyway they much prefer a run in the woods or a romp round the lake.

I agree to a point with you. But a Great Dane could not be in a carrier or a stroller. I think that it is entirely different if the dog isn't going to touch the floor.

I asked at Wegmans last night while I was shopping. They have rule signs posted on the door about having to wear shoes and stuff like that...but there was no "no dogs" sign...so I went to the service desk and asked. I told the girl that when I go shopping, my dog (4 lbs.) is usually with me...and could I bring her in with me instead of leaving her in the car, if she is in a carrier and never touches the floor. That was a lie...actually I would just like to be allowed to bring her...and I would never leave her in the car. The girl had to call her manager b/c nobody had ever asked her that question before (I find that surprising). And the manager said "no" becuase it's against the law for health reasons. Now...mind you...I can't believe that's true b/c I've seen seeing-eye-dogs in there. It may be the store policy...but it couldn't be against the law. I'm not really mad about it...I understand that businesses have rules. It just annoyed me that they couldn't just tell me that it is store policy and not make up some bogus law!

Somebody said something on a different thread about getting in trouble at Target. I was wondering what happened there.

You New Yorkers...Sammi, Maximus, and others...don't know how good you have it. Almost NOTHING in my city is privately owned...so I can't take my dog anywhere. Big corporations almost always have rules like that. And everytime I've been to New York...it seems to be so common to take your toy dog with you everywhere that even when I was in Macys, H&M, and Urban Outfitters I saw dogs in dog-purses and the store clerks didn't bat an eye.

Some Stores that are pet friendly
 

In my town in Westport these stores are pet friendly (even take my Lab in them):

Restoration Hardware
Banana Republic
Gap
Anthropologie
J Crew
Sometimes Barnes and Noble

And the Westchester Mall always allows my Yorkie!

You know, here in Manhattan, you can take your dog into Bergdorf Goodman's, and not just in a carrier. You can have the dog on the leash for it to walk around amongst the $700 Chimmy Choos and $3,000 Michael Kors jackets. If this is possible then carrying a 2lb dog in a bag around Target should be too!

Thank You. I feel the same. I posted a picture of the stroller in the section Meet My Yorkie.

I don't get it,,, they say it's a health issue. So what about the person who smells so bad they actually leave a trail? Or a homeless person who hasent showered in who knows how long? I can see why you can't have dogs lose walking on the floor. But small dogs that are confined and are well behaved and don't mind being confined, and just love being with mommy (like my Gus) I really don't see how it can be a health issue if the doggy is confined in a doggy bag or inclosed in a doggy stroller.

I decided to email the customer service reps from some local store and malls in my area. This is the only one who has answered me so far...but I was surprised by how nice she was about it. The mall that she works for is a huge outlet (strip-mall style) mall. I'll share with you what the other places I contacted say when I get responses. Here is her response:

Dear Holly;

We are a pet friendly facility. We have grassy areas to walk your dog, and we give out dog treats at Guest Services. Pets are not permitted in the Food Court unless they are specifically used as an Aid Dog assisting a handicapped individual. Each store has their own individual policies in place. If you need further information on a pet care facility, I would be happy to gather that information for you.

Please contact me if I can be of further assistance.

Have a great day!

Vicki L. Elford
Guest Services Manager
Prime Outlets-Grove City
P.O. Box 1001
Grove City, PA 16127
(724) 748-3875
(724) 748-4944 Fax
velford@primeretail.com

That is wonderful. I envy those who live in Grove City. Just may have to move, so Maggie can go shopping with me.

Thanks for sharing that with us. Not everyone or every business is hateful, or selfish.

It is refreshing! But I get the feeling that I probably won't actually be able to take her into the stores with me. :(

I've taken mine to homedpole, pet smart and was kicked out of walmart with a 8 week old pup. GRRRRRRRRRRRR. But, i will say at pet smart my dogs would never touch the floor i have walked around messes becaUSE the clerks was too busy to clean them up. I always clean up after my own dogs if they should happen to have to go. Who knows what some of the other dogs have everyone dont take as good of care as we do, and i dont want a sick dog. I also take them to ballgames, but if someones dog is there i don't know i hold my dog. I do let them go potty in a little woods place they have there. I have anxity attacks and i have two dogs that knows when they are coming on and i love having them, with me. I took Playboy to the doctor with me to give a test and ciouldnt right then had to come back and they told me it couldn't be in waiting room. At first it made me mad but people also can be allgeric to pet dander which all dogs have. I want to train my yorkie and my pooidle for service dogs for my attacks they keep me calm by licking my hand when i start to have attacks and i've had some bad ones everythiong closing in on me, mt blood pressure dropping to 97/56, not thinking stright and studdering. I LOVEW MY DOGS.bottom line.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...8poochlgn.html



San Diego has been a hot spot in the state for ADA abuse, with litigious predators targeting area small businesses as they exploit the law. Knowing that many small businesses without the financial resources to fight lawsuits will often settle out of court, ADA abusers have perfected the art of extracting settlements in exchange for dropping costly legal cases.



Accommodating Californians with special needs is vital, though abuse of the current system has resulted in great distress to many family businesses in San Diego and across the state. Ironically, this law that was originally designed to open doors for the disabled has forced some business to close their doors altogether. The Americans with Disabilities Act should be about providing access, not a payday for shakedown artists.

http://www.iaadp.org/CADO_Advocacy.html



The Department of Justice tells businesses to view dogs with such training as mobility aids, a form of assistive technology similar to equipment like a wheelchair, an assistive listening device or a blind person's white cane.

Unfortunately, some individuals are interpreting the regulatory language on service animals in ways which distort the intent of Congress in granting access rights to citizens who have a disability. They appear to view this civil rights legislation as a clever legal loophole allowing them to escape zoning restrictions, the payment of pet deposits, shipping fees or as a way to get around other ordinances or rules about pets, barnyard animals and protection dogs. Most of them seem unaware of ADA's requirement for disability mitigating task training or view it as a mere technicality to be ignored with impunity.


I have known truly disabled people and they face so many challenges – it can be heartbreaking.



I can’t help but think if the system of service dogs is being abused, it could really hurt the people who need it the most. To abuse this system is sinful.



I’m sorry, but if you are so disabled that you can’t pick up your keys in public – you won’t be able to reach down to take the keys from your Yorkies mouth.



The fact is – NOT EVERYONE LOVES DOGS THE WAY WE DO. I would never disrespect a business or public establishment to bring my dog where “we” weren’t wanted. I might choose to not visit that establishment – but I sure wouldn’t want to force my “wants” onto them.



If you are so stressed, that you can’t leave the house without your dog – take a pill. If this is an anxiety you have, maybe a visit to a doctor would be in order.



I am extremely familiar with the ADA – it is despicable someone would take advantage of this system just because you want to take your dogs everywhere with you.

I'm totally confused...how do lawsuits occur? Do you mean a disabled person sueing b/c they were not allowed in and the store didn't comply?

B/c if that is the case then they should be shut down...all they have to do is comply with the law, right? How can someone scam that? People may not be legally disabled...but the HIPPA laws and laws like it state that you don't have to prove your dissability. I can understand how some forms of abuse of this law could be harmful...but I don't understand it in regards to stores and businesses. :confused:

PS. Maybe her yorkie picks up her keys and then jumps into her lap to give them to her!!!

I am not quite sure I am understanding you. I think what the newspaper was stating was people CLAIMING to be disabled are abusing the law that was put in effect FOR disabled people. Since they cannot ask about your disability I can certainly understand why it would be a problem. It does cost money to fight a lawsuit.
I think in these cases people are just claiming to be disabled so they can get the business owner to settle out of court.
If this kind of thing keeps up I guarantee this law will be revised, probably at the expense of people that really CANT bend over to pick up their keys. JMO

I see! So people who were not denied anything, are saying they were...and then sueing? Makes sense.

Unfortunatley this happens with everything these days. One of my two jobs is for a large, public, and nationwide corporation. the things that people have tried to sue our company for are too many to name and almost always silly (for example sueing for hospital bills and pain and suffering b/c this person walked face-first into a wall and we did not have lights or reflectors on this wall to alert her that it was there) :) . Unfortunately we live in a sue happy world and it is hard for small business to keep up with the legal fees.

But back to the subject at hand...I don't think that any of us here are going to sue wal-mart b/c they won't let up bring our dog in there. But it sure would be nice if they did let us.

I would never get truely angry about my dog not being allowed admittance unless the store had advertised that pets were allowed...or if I had a working service animal (and the right to have one). But I will say that if Wal-mart ever does start allowing dogs in carriers...I would certaintly shop there more than Target of K-mart. :D

The ADA laws that the article posted by Ritaman is referring to are primarily those that require a business to modify the facility such that it accomodates disabled people. The law requires handicapped bathrooms with handles on the wall and a wide enough door for a wheelchair to fit through. If the business has steps, it also has to have a ramp for wheelchair access. There has to be a certain number of handicapped parking spaces, etc. I don't know all of those perameters but as the owner of two dental offices, we have had to comply with all those laws and we do. We want our facilities to be as disabled friendly as possible.

Lawyers get blasted all the time by "busniess owners and their lobbyists" for aggressively defending the rights of those who are not as wealthy and able to defend their rights, this includes the disabled. I am sure that abuses occur, but despite the fact that the insurance companies love to complain about "frivolous" lawsuits, these get kicked out of court summarily (quickly) under the current laws. The other side need merely file a summary hudgment motion or a cross complaint for abuse of process and the system takes care of it. An attorney can also be sanctioned and possibly have their license suspended for filing lawsuits without merit. No respectable lawyer would do this. There are bad apples in every profession.

No one on this forum is suggesting that we use our animals as service dogs if we are not disabled. The fact is that the law is quite broad on purpose and allows anyone with a condition which prevents them from living their daily lives in a completely normal way to be considered disabled for the purposes of having a trained service animal who is allowed access to all public places.

To suggest otherwise is not just expressing an opinion but impugning the integrity of the members here and this is distressing.

To sneak our dogs into places where they are not allowed is not a "sin" in my opinion, but if you choose to feel that way, then so be it. I respect your opinion.

I do not have to "sneak" my dogs in anywhere because they are servcice animals and I feel no guilt about this because it is perfectly legal. It is hurting no one as the law is not being abused.

To post that article to suggest otherwise is a misrepresentation of the facts and does not support your opinion. Find an article that addresses abuse of the service animal laws and you may have something.

The author of the article is not a journalist but rather a Republican politician who is lobbying for the business owners.

See end of article:

Poochigian, who represents the Fresno area in the state Senate, is the assistant Republican leader.

Small Breed Service Animal Article
 

From Lap to Laundry: Toy Service Dogs
by Debi Davis

Delta Society Service Dog Resources

“Look Mommy!” the small girl squealed, watching my 9-pound Papillon service dog pick up the car keys I’d dropped. “That doggy wants to drive the car!”

Driving a car is one of the few things my service dog Peek can’t do for me. However, the tasks he performs for me each day more than make up for his inability to play chauffeur. As a person with a disability using a wheelchair for legs, I remain independent and self-sufficient because Peek handles tasks which are difficult or painful for me to perform.

Each morning Peek hears the alarm clock ring, then slaps the snooze button with his paw for 5 more minutes of snuggling in bed. After nature breaks, he helps tug off my pajamas, then hands them to me to fold and put away.

When I am dressed, Peek knows it’s time to make the bed, and jumps in position on the far side of the mattress, waiting for the cue to “tug the covers.” Grasping the sheet between his teeth, he pulls it up toward the bedstead, then repeats the task with the comforter. “Pillows,” I whisper. Peek pulls them into place then looks to me for another cue. I dream of ways to teach him to pour me a cup of coffee, but so far the training techniques elude me.

When breakfast is finished, Peek helps me with the housework. Following me from room to room, he picks up any object. I point to the cordless phone, and he fetches it and places it on the hook. The TV controls are deposited on the end table. Peek reluctantly stashes away all his toys in his toy box, sighs, and follows me to the kitchen.

I point to the lower cupboard and say “Open.” Peek pulls on the leather thong attached to the handle, then waits, as I throw trash into the container under the sink, before closing the door with a swipe of his paw.

Because I get dizzy when I bend over, on laundry days Peek’s job is to tug the clothes out of the dryer and put them in the clothes basket for me, while I sit in my wheelchair and fold them. And although he’d prefer to sleep in the pile of dirty clothes, he does my bidding by bringing me the next load to be washed – one piece at a time.

When we have outings, Peek jumps on my lap and presses the handicap door opener button for me. We roll to the elevator, where he again presses the button with his nose, and we are off.

The public is used to seeing large breeds doing service dog work, but a toy dog performing these tasks always raises eyebrows. Comments of “Oh, he’s so cute!” soon turn to “Oh, he’s so helpful!” when they see a toy dog do many of the things a large breed service dog can do.

Yet the amazing abilities of toy working dogs are overlooked by most large service dog training programs. They prefer dogs like Golden Retrievers, which have a history of even temperament, and whose size and strength make them easily adaptable to those with a wide variety of disabilities. And it is true that large dogs are needed for those requiring assistance in pulling wheelchairs, pulling heavy doors, or getting in and out of the tub. But not all people with disabilities require that level of assistance. Many with mobility impairments mainly need a dog to do retrieval tasks, and a toy dog is indeed a viable option.

For those living in small apartments, a toy service dog may be ideal. Travelling by car or plane is certainly easier with a smaller dog. In restaurants, they fit easily under a chair or table, and more discretely than their large canine counterparts. Clean up after nature calls is easier, and the amount of food consumed is considerably less.

Toy breeds have much to offer as service dogs. But it will take advocates to spread the word and herald the successes of those already working in the field before they are taken seriously. I look forward to the day when a cruise through the mall will gain me comments of “Oh, what a fine working partner you have!” instead of “Oh, what a cute puppy!”

It can happen.

I do not believe that anyone has said anything negative about people in wheelchairs not benefitting from a service animal. I haven't seen a single post on this entire board that says people in wheelchairs shouldn't receive all the assistance in the world that they can get in helping them do the things that they cannot do on their own because of their disability.

I respect the ADA and CADO. Their work is wonderful and has allowed the disabled in our society the opportunity to live a more normal life. They have broadened the scope of the definition to allow even more people who suffer everyday from an inability to live normally to have a chance to do just that. To impugn the integrity of someone you feel is "less disabled" than another is what I have trouble with. Who are we to judge unless we live with the disability. As long as a person suffers such that they cannot live their lives "normally" everyday then they are truly disabled and deserve every opportunity to allow them the chance to achieve as normal a life as possible.

IMO it is what I would call "BEATING THE SYSTEM" and their are many people out there that would do just that. If a person has a true disability and is not just "LAZY" or "BEATING THE SYSTEM" I can fully sympathize with them.

I reposted the article about the girl in the wheelchair because of the earlier post with this quote from ritaman1:

"I’m sorry, but if you are so disabled that you can’t pick up your keys in public – you won’t be able to reach down to take the keys from your Yorkies mouth."

The article starts out with an example of the dog picking up her keys for her.

No one on this forum is suggesting that we use our animals as service dogs if we are not disabled. The fact is that the law is quite broad on purpose and allows anyone with a condition which prevents them from living their daily lives in a completely normal way to be considered disabled for the purposes of having a trained service animal who is allowed access to all public places.


I beg to differ Kim, i think that is exactly what you have done. I do not believe the law is intentionally that broad.I just do not think they thought people would abuse it in such a way that everything from a migraine to ADD would be considered a disability that altered the every day life of some people. If that were the case then almost everyone could claim a disability. I would find it almost laughable if it were not so sad.
I do not want to take my dog where he is not welcome, I think it would be more upsetting to him if he heard me arguing with every store owner that tried to disagree with me, he is pretty sensitive to my moods and I dont think it would make for an emotionally stable animal. I would just as soon leave him home than upset him, myself and everyone else.
I knew that when I decided to get a dog that I was ready and willing to spend more time at home. Now I have 2, if I cant fly (btw, i get panic attacks on planes, still not enough of a disability for me) with both of them in the cabin with me, I will find another mode of transportation or I will get a petsitter.



Quote//To suggest otherwise is not just expressing an opinion but impugning the integrity of the members here and this is distressing.

I would be truly interested to know how many members here can actually claim a disability. You can try to turn this around to make it sound like I am attacking the members here, I certainly am not, but it does baffle me how many of them suddenly need a service dog or have had the idea of needing one suggested to them.THAT distresses me.

Pets Welcome
 

I own a Gift Gallery with some very expensive one of a kind items, and I would much rather someone bring in their pet than some of the children that come in here. At least I know the pet owners would be in control, unlike some of the parents that I encounter.
My Jack is with me behind the counter all day, and greets the customers, he has fans that come in just to see him.
I have attached a picture of the plaque that greets customers by my front door.

Jack and jill, I totally LOVE your sign!! And I agree,unfortunatly some people do not love pets as much as you or me. I have to respect their feelings too.
If I had a storefront then I would have my dogs in their too and if someone didnt like it THEY could leave. I do hope to someday have a store when I have more time than I do now, when i do I am copying your sign:)

When I read ritaman's statement about the keys, I didn't assume that the person was in a wheelchair. If someone standing drops their keys, its a long trip to the mouth of a yorkie to retrieve the keys.

jackandjill your sign is great!!! I would shop in your store anytime because of that sign.

I love that and I totally agree! I feel the same way when I am in a restaurant or a movie theater. If a baby cries or a child whines and fusses, it is no less annoying than a dog who may bark or whine a couple of times. You don't see the management asking the parents to leave with the child.