Crates
 

I've been reading a lot of posts where people have crate problems and as some of you know, I'm not a proponent of crates, and I don't want people to get upset about this, but I do want to find out two things:

1) Why do you crate your dog?

2) When do you plan to stop?

I never felt a need to crate Archie. He just hangs around the house and I toilet trained him to go outside. I thought that crate training was only for exactly that...training. Once they're trained, they don't need the crate. But I'm reading about people who have their dogs in crates when the dog is over a year old.

I guess my question is that where did this notion that dogs need to be in cages come about? For centuries, dogs have been man's best friend, a companion who is loyal. Archie is my best friend. He follows me everywhere, he eats when I eat, and at night, he sleeps at the foot of my bed and "protects" me. In the morning, he wakes me up and licks my face and snuggles next to me. When I walk in the door, he's the first one to run up and give me a kiss. And for centuries, there were no such things as crates for your dog.

I'm sorry to say this, but to me, it's really upsetting to hear about people who leave their homes and leave their dogs in a cage...I don't care how much food, water and toys you leave for your dog, but the bottom line is that you are still keeping your best friend in a cage.

Some people have to because the dog will destroy the house. I totally believe in crate training. I love my dogs just as much as anyone. But there is a thing of either having them crated when i am not home and coming home to the house as I left it, or leaving them out of the crate and finding my house torn to bits when I return. I know a few people that have had thousands of dollars worth the damage done to their house because they didn't believe in crating thier dogs. they have since changed the way they think about them.

I crate Peanut because I don't trust her and my other dog who is a choc lab alone together. When they play they both can get rough. Atleast when I'm home I can play referee(sp?). Peanut now has to sleep in crate at night because she peed twice on our bed without barking to be let out. Once she is potty trained, and we get a house she can have the run of whatever area I designate for her. The choc lab will be outside on the patio due to the fact of him having bladder problems. but anyways it all depends on the dog. Some can be trusted at home w/o distroying things while others can't be..

i agree with you reconsmomma i wouldn't have a house left..also it's for there protection as well..they could get hurt left running all over the house. if i have to leave i know they will be safe,til i get back.

OK..

Think about what you're implying, "My house is so fragile that I need to keep my dog in a cage." And the next question is why do you have a dog if your house is so fragile? Why don't you have a bird? Would you crate a cat?

And at what point is crating no longer training, but keeping your dog in a cage? To put it another way, when do you expect the "training" to stop?

I am sorry. I hope that this doesn't come out wrong but I am getting the impression that you think that we are all horrible people because we choose to crate out dogs.

My house is not fragile. But we get up and go to work everyday to earn the money to have nice things. We also choose to share our lives with our dogs. I have chosen to crate train my dogs because I dont want the legs of my kitchen table getting chewed on or my electric cords being eaten or anything like that.

It is your choice to not crate your dog, but if I didn't crate my dog and came home to find the kitchen table and chairs that my mans grandpa made with his own 2 hands chewed on, I would have homeless dogs because he wouldn't put up with it.

We are not horrible people for crating our dogs. My dog would go lay in the crate with the door open when it was sleepy. She loved it. So you may have your method of training and we have ours. All it is is a difference of opinion. And we are all entitled to our opinions.

In response.... IMO its the best training tool...i your opinion you may not agree... thats fine. But don't make us feel like we are bad people, Our dogs our feed, Loved and I know mine is spoiled. The crate is her home and she loves it.

I use a crate and Mackenzie loves it...when shes sleepy, she goes right into it and curls up on her blankies....I've never had to force her into it....even though she has a doggy bed too....dogs were den animals in the wild...I think they enjoy having their "own" place..they feel secure....its their own safe haven....

I crate my dog while I am at work. I am curious if you work? If/when I am home all day, my dog is not in her crate at all.
I crate her for both the sake of my house as well as her own sake.
My dogs are smaller, could easily get into a lot of trouble. As a matter of fact I did leave her in the kitchen one day, came home and she was gone.
She had gotten herself into a cabinet (it had knives in it) and was very fortunate not to have gotten hurt. She scared herself however. I dont want her getting under the fridge (well, she cant do that now, the male i have could), she could get behind the fridge, she could eat electrical cords or who knows what could happen.
I am just explaining, have no need to defend myself as I don't care what others think. My dogs are well loved, played with and excersized and I think have a better home than a lot of other animals have, crated or not.

I'm not saying you are horrible people. On the contrary, i think that you are very protective of your dog which is, to some extent, great. But I do think that there is a point that the protectiveness that people have over their yorkies can go too far. Do you have children?

I'm just trying to find out what it is that you are training your dog to do by crating them, and I just don't see how crating your dog will deter him or her from chewing on furniture. From what I know about crate training, it's something that people do to toilet train their dog, which is a method I personally did not employ. Once the dog is trained, there is no reason for a crate.

I have nice furniture and electrical cords too but Archie doesn't chew them because he gets chew toys instead. Will they really get hurt if you leave them? Have you ever left them by themselves?

My impression is that if you do crate your dog, they are more likely to chew on stuff out of frustration and pent up energy.

I've never crated mine..... but I see the logic easily - some yorkies like their crates and feel secure in them... and the other is also for their OWN protection - they may get into something and get hurt and if alone for long periods of time - yorkies will get into things - I think using a crate is a personal choice and the yorkies who are crated from puppies are used to it ...and those that aren't.... like mine - would freak only because they've never been in one -

I know if I was gone all day and had a small puppy... I would really feel better knowing there was nothing to hurt him or her...and a crate is a way to have that peace of mind.

...It's also good for your babies to be comfortable with being in a crate...if god forbid something is wrong and they need to go to the vet ...they are put in a crate...if they aren't used to it, that just adds to the stress of being there and away from home...even when and if they go to a groomer, into a crate they go...again adds to the stress....its also a safer way for them to travel.....I feel its a good safe, option to have with them...and if they are accustomed to it...then its a comfort to them ;)

I am not attacking people who crate their dogs. If you are taking this as a personal attack, well, I'm sorry and all I can say is please don't feel that way. It's not a personal attack. I am not on yorkietalk to attack people. I do realize that people's lives are different and they do different things but I am asking a different question, which no one has answered:

what are you training your dog to do by crating them? and at what point will that training be accomplished?

I still don't think that a dog should be caged and it is upsetting to me PERSONALLY, but I have an opinion that is different just as you have opinions that are different. But I think we can all agree to disagree on the subject. Now, back to the original question...

P.S. Yes, I work and so does my boyfriend. Our schedules, however, as such that Archie is never really left home for more than 4 - 5 hours a day. If we're not home for long periods of time, Archie will either be home by himself or he goes to play at his friends' houses or his friends come over to keep him company here.

....or if you have a show dog...I'm not positive...but aren't they crated while at the show, when not in the show ring or being groomed??........If they weren't accustomed to a crate, that wouldn't go very well....I'm just listing the positives of your pup being comfortable with a crate....can't think of any negatives really :rolleyes: ......

show dogs are crated, but for travelling and for short periods of time. and i presume that after grooming, etc. they are in there so they don't run around and mess up their 'do's. i'm asking about keeping your dog when he is at home for longer periods of time.

I agree that your dog should be comfortable in a crate or wherever, but I'm not asking about comfort...i'm asking about keeping your dog in a crate in the home. your dog should be comfortable in a car but does that mean leaving him in the car all day?

My guys sleep in crates at night. When I'm gone for the day I have a portable pen that I set up around the crates with food , water, toys etc. and I think they spend the time I'm gone in their opened crates sleeping. I like having them confined for their protection and it does protect our home.

I have 2 eldarly yorkies that had the run of the house while I was at work. They developed some bad habits. I know they aren't house trained as well as my one year olds. ( they're sneaky) :confused:

It was just something I decided to do when I got my new pups. It seems to be working. :)

Did you train the older yorkies not to engage in those bad habits? And since you are crate training your younger ones, when will you stop using the crates?

Where else would you be able to let them become accustomed to a crate besides your home?...Believe me, I don't like the idea of leaving them in a crate for hours on end and I don't do it...but when they are in there, they sleep most of the time...Like I said....Mackenzies crate is left open all day for her to go in and out of as she pleases, and she is in it, at her own will quite often...When I am out I feel much better knowing she is safe in her crate then out doing god knows what......its like wearing a seatbelt...who the heck wants to be strapped into something...but if you've done it from the get, then you are used to it and it doesnt bother you...better safe then sorry.... just my opinion ;)

Answer to first question... Yes...they knew better but we weren't home so they didn't care and they could get away with it.

Answer no.2...probably never... thats their bed

OK...so here are the arguments for crate training, and counter-arguments:

Argument: I need to crate to house-train
Counter-argument: Once he's trained, you don't need it anymore, right?

A: My dog will destroy my stuff
C: Have you seen him engage in destructive behaviour? Have you trained him not to?

A: My dog likes his crate and it's his "den"
C: OK. So is a doggy bed. Why does he need to be locked into his den?

A: He needs to learn to use the crate to travel.
C: So why is he in a crate at home?

A: My dog is safe in a crate when I am not at home
C: Has something happened before where your dog has done something dangerous? Have you trained him not to do it anymore?

Are people using the crate to actually train their dogs or are they just keeping them in crates because it makes them feel better? Let's be honest (without taking it personally).

If your not home to watch a dog some kind of protection is a good thing.

I do know of dogs that have chewed electric cords and not be alive when the owners came home. Also some that have fought and one or more not alive when the owners came home.

Do I think a small crate is a good thing for one to be in all day, no I don't. An ex-pen or something to protect the dog is good ownership, not just being mean.

I still haven't heard any negatives to crating, besides some saying "I think its cruel"...I mean really...if the dog learns to be in it, prefers to be in it...and isn't traumatized by it, its just a great thing to be able to do and know your dog is comfortable with it. :D

do i know dogs that bite? yes. i was bitten as a kid
do i know dogs that rip up catalogs? as a matter of fact, there's one right next to me doing it.

the point is that dogs do a lot of things...but they're dogs, and there is a line between training your dog NOT to do unwanted behaviour and putting him in a crate because you don't want to train him or your afraid of what might or might not happen.

The whole argument for crating a dog hinges on the notion that crates are to be used for training but what it seems like is that crates are used because people don't want to train.

My yorkie have their own room with play area. But they also have their own cages with their crates in it, which the door is off the crate. That is where they sleep. They don"t sleep on the rug thats in there pens. They want to sleep in there crates. Dogs just like people want to be alone at times. They will go set in front of there cages wanting to go to there crates. I also have two that will fight if left alone with each other.

And as for negatives related to crate training, here's what Warren Eckstein, who is a pet expert has to say about it:

http://warreneckstein.com/pettips_caging.html

In addition, the ASPCA talks about crate training, but the emphasis there is on "training" not the "crate" part. Note that any reliable articles out there that talk about crate training always have a qualification "when used properly." And, they all talk about using a crate in certain situations, not all the time.

I don't use the term "crate training"...I "crate" her..its just how it is...she sleeps in her crate at night, she gets into it on her own when shes sleepy, I close the door to it, I also close the door to my bedroom at night, I like it that way...keeps the boogey man out ;)

I am sorry this isn't meant to be offensive but this man is nothing but a quack in my opinion. I have crated all my dogs and all are totally house trained now and no longer need to be crated anymore. I do however keep the crate up because this has become thier den.

Im sorry but I am in the prosess of getting my dog training license and crate training is the recommendation on the majority of trainers in this country.

As it has been said before, I will say it again, You can have your opinion and we have ours. how we raise and train our dogs is how we choose and how you raise and train yours is your choice. Neither is right or wrong. Lets just move on to the next subject because even though you have stated that you do not mean to offend, you are offending me. Just because some "dog expert" says that crating isn't the proper way to do things doesnt mean anything to me. I personally would really like to see how much education this man has that has made him an "expert".

Sorry to offend but you have offended me.

i just read what this guy had to say and laughed..i agree with you recon...i don't think he know crap.

Thank you.

I am not offended, I just don't get why you care??? You do with your dog what you want, I will do with my dogs what I want.

"This does not hold true for the average family. In the average household, both spouses work outside the home at least 8 hours a day. They also sleep approximately 8 hours. So far that's 16 hours that Fido will be in a cage. Add a couple of hours for shopping, errands and dinner out and you're up to 18 hours a day that the dog is confined".

and this is ridiculous. My dogs are crated maybe 7 hours a day. They sleep with me, they are not crated 18 hours a day. And my dogs are extremely well socialized, healthy and happy and loved :luvu: