I am in serious need of advice here...
 

Ok, I have never been one to give doggie treats. My cocker, who is 6 years old, never got rewarded with treats. mostly because I could not afford to buy a lot of extra stuff like that when I got her. But it was also because I was told about not having her depend on getting treats every time she went potty or did something I asked her to do, but simply doing it to please me...her master. well. my husband has always been just the opposite. his 10 year old min pin still gets a treat EVERY time he goes outside to use the bathroom. It drives me NUTS because if he goes out and comes back in...and he doesn't get a treat...he whines and barks and goes nuts until he gets one. my hubby ALWAYS gives him one. I don't. EVER. I never ever give him one. I refuse!! at 10 years old, especially, he should not be rewarded for using the bathroom outside...not with treats anyway. a simple praise should suffice for him. he should be doing it because it is the right thing to do...NOT because he wants a treat. I know you guys agree because I have heard it said many times here...and in other chat groups.

anyway..here is my problem. I have asked him not to give Daisy treats. but he still does. I do not want him giving maggie treats when she goes out. the praise is enough. I don't want MY dogs acting the way HIS does. period. but he refuses to change his ways. I would love it if he would just stop with the treats all together but he won't. I just don't know how to talk to him about it. He gets very defensive when I try to tell him what is wrong with his dog. His dog has had issues with being stubborn and bossy since the day I met him. He has always made the rules for Jim, not the other way around. it is just horrible. but when I try to tell Jim that it is because of the way he treats him and has raised him, he gets extremely defensive and then proceeds to tell me the things I do wrong with my daughter. I just feel like it is a losing battle but with having maggie in the house now, I don't want her to end up like Rex. I just don't.

any suggestions as to how I can talk to him about this and actually be effective? I mean, I have mentioned it before but he just doesn't seem to agree. actually, he says he agrees with me, but then as soon as rex goes outside, he give him a treat when he gets back in. It's like we never had the conversation. I think he just feels it is easier to give him a treat to shut him up than to deal with it the right way.

I'm just tired of it. and want to change it. I have trained Rex so good since we moved in together...the dog was 8 years old and still using the bathroom in the house when left alone...until I came along. now...we haven't had an accident in the house in over a year. he also does not bark at ME anymore. still barks at Jim because Jim gives into him but he knows better than to bark at me.

anyway...what should I do?

I dont have a clue how to help stop him from doing that. But, I gave my dogs treats for tricks and for pottying outside and as time went by, I would give them a treat sometimes just because I felt like it, when they would come in from pottying, I would say good girls. and Now I only give a treat when I feel like it or just when I decide to. But they do tricks without the treats and also go outside without getting them. I think its fine to start them out with them for a while but to me, it should be a sometimes thing so they dont just go do things for a treat. sometimes, they are just sitting and if i walk by the treats I'll call them in there and give them one and their happy and i'm happy. But I no longer give them for everything they do. that can get expensive for 2 dogs everytime they do something. mine get more plain cheerios than anything.

I am sorry you are having this conflict with the dogs. I know it must be stressful, I hope you can resolve the problem so that everyone is happy. Maybe you could both discuss your feelings about treating the dogs and really truly listen to each other with your mind AND your heart. It might be that giving the dogs "food treats" is really important to your husband.

Why is it so important for you to have YOUR way on how the dogs are given treats? If he has been doing this for 10 years with his dog and the dog is not overweight, what is the real problem? Are the treats nutritious? Causing any health issues? Causing the dog not to eat dog food?

Marriage is about compromise. You have different "treat beliefs" --that is a pretty small thing in the grand scheme of things. Give a little. Maybe agree on a smaller, less filling treat. But if he wants to "treat" his dog -- let him do it. As for yours..... if you want to limit the treats, fine but.... why not let him give a few? Will it really hurt?

Before I let the "treats" issue become a instigating argument leading to your daughter, I would learn to compromise. Being "right" is not always what it is about.

If you're adamant about not giving them treats, then you should sit down and talk to him and explain why it's important.

I personally think treats are great for teaching animals. Go to the zoo sometime. All the trainers use treats, from birds to killer whales.

And they don't have to be expensive. Right now I'm using Cheerios. One trick, one Cheerio. They last forever that way.

MY girls LIVE for their treats - I don't even think it's about eating them as much as getting them - I'd never deprive them of that and LOVE seeing their little hopeful faces.

I personally think treats are great for dogs. Whatever problem your husband's min pin has as you have described, it doesn't come from giving a treat after pottying and I'd never deprive my dog of treats.There are the expensive treats but there are also the cheap treats like cheerio...one box lasts forever. And I do agree with what FlDebra says.

Gee if it wasn't for treats I don't think I would have accomplished potty training as easily as I did. Also it's about the only way I can get them back into the house quickly. Treats propably has saved Reesie's life a time or 2 when she has darted out the front door. Reesie doesn't have to have a treat for going outside, but we are still training Abbie and you have to be fair. I always give a treat to Reesie before handing one to Abbie. That lets Reesie know she was here first. I really wouldn't be to concerned about this. This would be like your BF telling you how to raise your daughter. It's human nature for people to get a little defensive when someone tries to tell them what to do. Obviously this gives him enjoyment and his dog enjoyment. Maybe that's their bonding time together.

All I can say is "Pick Your Battles.

How important is this in the big scheme of things. As long as you are not giving the treats, then they don't get them every time, so I don't think the dogs will begin to rely on them.

My two past dogs, would go out and come back in JUST to get a treat. they wouldn't even potty while they were out. They had us very well trained.

It's just like with kids, sometimes Dad allows things that mom doesn't allow. You have to decide which is more important, Harmony in your marriage or winning the battle.

Just learn to roll your eyes and take is as just one of his little idiosyncracies.

take it easy buddy, that's not what i am getting at here. first of all, his dog is overweight. the problem is that his dog is very demanding about getting treats. his dog is very food motivated. my dog has never been that way and i see her starting to take on some of those habits. i don't want that. and I dont want maggie to act that way either. i am not saying he cannot give his dog treats, i just dont want to do it with my dogs. we have a wonderful marriage and completely understand compromise. i dont think it is fair for you to judge my marriage like that.
he has agreed with me on the treats issue. he has seen how his dog has changed due to my training. he has made many comments about how he could never train his dog and when I came along, he noticed a world of difference. He this is the only dog he has ever owned and he got this dog through a relationship gone bad. he had no idea how to train him but just went along by what was easy. he will admit this.l i am not making him conform to my demands by any means. i have talked to him about this to a small degree in the past and he agreed. but then he went back to it after a couple of days because his dog demanded it. this is the problem i have. i do not know how to talk to him in a way that will be effective in this situation. if he was in total disagreement on the issue, it would be a totally different story. i would respect his position...as I have on many many other issues. I understand that we are different people and we agree that we will not always see eye to eye. that is fine. But i feel that i have a right to express how I want my dogs trained...seeing as I have had great luck with my methods in the past. i would like to continue with those methods.nothing wrong with that.

i have no problem giving treats on occasion. but for a dog to bark at me and go nuts because they feel they are entitled to a treat...i don't work that way. my dogs dont train me. period. they respect me and my dogs are very attached to me. they are not missing out on any love and they do get treats. but they do not get them because THEY feel it is their right. everyone has their own way of training dogs and I have read over and over again...and talked to many people who agree that a dog training you is the wrong way to go about it. in fact, if you go back and look at previous posts on this site, there are MULTIPLE people who have preached that to people that have problem dogs. creating the "alpha dog" perspective to your dog. you being the alpha. well, if my dog is barking at me when I come home because he wants me to go to the treat jar and give him a treat...or he goes outside, comes in, and starts barking to get a treat...NO. that is just not the way it works. period. that is like my child coming in the house and saying "I want a piece of candy NOW...I was a good girl at schools so I am ENTITLED to a treat". She would go sit on her bed if she acted that way with me.

I agree with picking your battles...I dont see this being a battle. I am simply looking for suggestions about how to help him overcome the thought that it is just easier to give him a treat than to train him not to be demanding. that is the outlook he has on it. and he has told me that. "I started giving him treats just to shut him up..." well...enough said. that is just not how you train a dog. you dont reward them for bad behavior.

giving treats is not a bad thing. and as I said before, I give my dogs treats. but not because they are demanding it. I do it out of affection and as a "treat". example...daisy goes through our grooming session...which can take a long time with all the hair she has. she gets rewarded immensely for sitting through that. we go shopping and pick up different kinds of bones and chewy things for the dogs...we give that to them after a walk in the neighborhood...it's a treat at that point. we are "treating" them to a gift...or surprise. this makes them so incredibly happy. they get so excited and just think they are on top of the world. I love those moments. and so do they.

all I can say is, to each his own. I have trained my cocker without treats. and anyone that comes into my home will tell you that she is one of the best dogs they have ever known. so well behaved and she has not had an accident in the house in years. she was potty trained by 12 weeks old...NO accidents. we rewarded her with praise and love. she got her occasional treat from the store when I would go out or her occasional kong full of peanut butter or even some surprises in her food. several times a day she would get special stuff. but it had nothing to do with her training. that was done strictly off of praise. she will walk without a leash, come when called NO MATTER WHAT and do anything I tell her to do...even if she doesn't want to. She completely respects me. we are extremely close. All I am getting at is that I feel it is possible and would like to try that method with Maggie as well. he can continue to do what he wants with his dog, but with Maggie, I would like her to be the dog that everyone raves about when they come over...just like Daisy is. I can tell you this much...all of my friends adore daisy...they can't stand rex. period. he is too demanding. it gets irritating when he barks and whines at us all the time. bottom line...I dont want maggie to be that way. I see nothing wrong with that. my dogs are not deprived and that is how I feel you guys are making it out. You guys are acting like they are deprived and that is just not the case. they have more toys, bones, and love than they know what to do with. but they do the right thing out of respect.

You say:
In general, women are much more articulate than the average man. You argue your point he gives in, but than goes ahead and does what he wants. DON'T ALL MEN DO THIS?

Don't sweat the small stuff is right. This is his way of bonding with the animals; giving them food. You should be happy he loves your pet. Don't raise your pets so that your friends will think they are the best pets ever. By the way, aren't Cocker Spaniels the most submissive dog ever? Do you want hubby to be a Cocker Spaniel?

They've been doing this for 10 years; and you come around and want to change it. Sounds like you want to be alpha dog of the whole house.

I agree that they should not get treats everytime they do something they are supposed to do.

I don't get why everone is being so critical of me. I have done nothing wrong here. I am not trying to change the way he and his dog are. my biggest conflict is that I am not going to ask him to change the way he is with his dog, I simply want to ask that he not give Daisy and Maggie treats every time they go outside. The conflict is that if he is giving Rex treats but not the others, that does not seem fair. and I don't know how to go about this. that's it. bottom line. what is so wrong with that? I am not trying to be alpha over the whole house. in fact, my husband has more say so over stuff than I do. He manages this house from top to bottom, from financial things to how we decorate the house. I simply don't want daisy and maggie dependent on treats. how are you guys turning this into me being a control freak over my husband? I just dont get it. funny thing is that I posted this same thing in a much smaller chat group that I have been a part of for a long time and I didn't get the same response I got here. I got nothing but love, encouragement, and advice. all you guys want to do is make me out to be the bad guy. and all I am trying to do is find a peaceful resolution for this.

Now, I have always loved this site. I have learned a lot, and met a lot of great people here. but this is just sad. I come here for advice on how to come to a peaceful resolution to a concern of mine and all you guys can do is analyze my marriage...which you know NOTHING about...and cut me down at the knees. who are you to make such judgements? are your marriages so perfect? are your houses so "in order" that you can pass judgement on others that are simply seeking advice?

what it must be like to be so perfect. congratulations to all of you!!!

and...this is not his way of bonding. trust me. you dont know him, I do. this is just his way of getting rex to stop barking. period. he has told me that numerous times!!!

and what is wrong with raising your pets to be social, well behaved animals that are loved by all??? I just dont get what you are trying to say here.

I read over posts and don't feel anybody was putting you down or analyzing your marriage. Most just said they didn't see anything wrong with giving the occasional treat or everyday treats. You did ask for opinions...
Have you thought about some dog training classes where you all go as a family? Your husband may get a different opinion of rewarding behaviors and find a more positive reinforcement for behaviors?

Good Luck..

yes, i have thought about it and that is most likely what we will do. i believe that will ensure we are all on the same page.

good advice, i appreciate it.

Well, maybe it really IS easier for him to give the treats and in today's world anything that can help ruduce your stress I say go for it as long as its legal and moral.

His dog is 10, that's pretty old to want to re train a dog ( yes I know you can teach an old dog new tricks ) I mean really what is it hurting? Just tell him to leave your alone.

Angie

I am not trying to stir anything here. Just a thought that came in to my mind..Cockers and Min Pins are two totally different breeds hence they have different sets of attitude. In general (I am not saying all just in general) most Cockers are submissive and people-orientated but most Min Pins are in general bossy and loves to bark and are very sensitive to little noises and will spark them off barking. If a treat can keep him quiet, why not? :D If he is overweight, make him run more and peace to all.

I do agree with both of you. please know that I am not wanting to ask him to stop giving his dog treats. I choose not to give them to him, but I know he will continue to. that is his choice. my problem is that I dont' want him giving my cocker and yorkie treats the way he does to his dog. hence the conflict...and confusion as to how to achieve this. I do not want to change my husbands dog...you are right, he is 10 years old. I will say this..I have taught the dog a lot since I have shared a home with him. I have potty trained him and taught him that it is ok to bark when someone rings the doorbell, but once you sniff them out and know that they are ok, then the barking is not necessary. however...barking at me because he wants a treat is not acceptable. he doesn't bark at me because he knows I will not give in. he barks at my hubby, because he knows jim will give in. he barks at people that dog sit...because he thinks it will get him a treat.

my ONLY desire here is that he does not give daisy and maggie treats every time they go out. that's it. i'm not trying to change anyone, just trying to have daisy staying on the same schedule and routine that she has always known, and having maggie trained the way I would like her to be raised. I feel very confident that I can train her without treats. giving her gifts/treats throughout the day but not because of her demanding it or feeling entitled to it.

i really am done arguing my point tho. some of you have given great advice and I truly appreciate it. it is what makes this site such a great place to visit.

please trust that I will do what is right by all of us. this is why i wanted to ask for the advice/suggestions BEFORE talking to him about it. that way it comes out right and not demeaning or bossy or any other way that is not right or acceptable.

I dont think there is anything wrong with your not wanting your Husband to give your dogs treats when they go outside. We havent done that since we were potty training our dogs. Men just seem to have an obsession with giving dogs food though. My Husband is constantly slipping Our dogs table food

thanks...glad I'm not alone here :)
I do slip our dogs treats and table food as well. but it is not given because they went outside to potty. nothing wrong with pampering the dog :) my dogs are very spoiled and quite happy with that :)

Mandee I don't let mine have treats often, I give a few around Christmas, Easter, etc.... I would be very mad if Shane went behind my back and fed ours. I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I would do:) I would lock ALL the treats up and nobody would get anything until it was understood that MY dogs were not fed. This Christmas we were at Shane's family home for 7 days and we gave them a yorkie 2 years ago....they spoil her big time and I think its great b/c they are both at peace with the treat/feeding I don't believe in all they give to eat but, it was a GREAT visit as they always asked if they could give mine anything before they ever offered it to them....and just for that reason I let them feed mine because it made them happy to do it and it was only for 7
days :>)
* LoL looks like Jim had a lot of people come to his " rescue" If you ever do get on his case he can always come here....lolol

Angie

LOL Angie... thanks :)

This is what made me think you want to change the way Jim treats Rex. Maybe if you let up a little on this, he will not give your dogs treats.

I'm sorry you feel that you are being attacked..

I can totally see your point on the issue of creating bad behavior. We have friends that hsve an extremely overweight ShihTzu and the dog barks at them, demanding things constantly. so they feed her to shut her up.

If she were my dog, Well first of all she wouldn't be my dog because I would have nipped it in the bud when it first started. But if it were my dog I would correct the barking and be more concerned with the dogs health.

You didn't explain the overweight issue and the constant demanding in your first post.

I apologize...there are some details that I did not think of until it was too late. that is my fault. I was not completely clear on my intentions and concerns. I guess I thought it would be a simple question with some simple ideas...that is my fault for not thinking it all the way through.

Yes, I do tell him what I think is wrong. when Rex is acting out, I do tell him "I really think we need to do something about this." and there have been times that I have said "the only reason he barks at you for 5 minutes straight when you get home is because you go straight to the treat jar and give him a treat". Jim has agreed with me on this. so yes, I have pointed out things that could be done differently with his dog. just as I would if it involved our child and there was something I think could be done differently. I am a human being and there is nothing wrong with me wanting to change things so that we are not rewarding or encouraging bad behavior. so when I say "I want it to change"...yes...why wouldn't I?? of course I would love change. In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to wish for that.

I am aware that it will probably never change. but a girl can dream. and as for the other 2 dogs? I see no reason why we have to look back 10 years from now and wish we had done something different when we have the same problems we are wanting to correct. with them, we will do it differently. he can continue to do what he wants with rex. I just want it different for these 2.

Good reply, I think I understand more of what you are saying, and Jim needs to learn more about rewards. You should never give the dog a treat to stop barking. You are rewarding the barking behavior.

Have you ever tried the can of pennies to stop this? Saying "No" followed by a shake of the can? This also helps train the dog to listen more carefully to the word, "No". It has to be done in the right order to be most effective.

I really don't think it's that bad for Jim to give him a treat when Rex comes in the house, and maybe you could compromise on the type of treat given since Rex is overweight, but the barking issue definitely needs to be addressed. Sorry I added to your frustration.