Is this possible to do?
 

I was just surfing a few sites selling dogs. I came across this under the puppy contract page. I just really wonder how this can be done. there is no way that I would EVER sign something like this. However, for those that do can it actually be enforced? Should the time slip by me and I hear someone come knocking on my door.. Well it wouldn't be pretty. lol


If puppy is purchased as a pet you agree to neuter or spay the puppy by it's sixth month and will provide Seller with a copy of the Certificate of Spay/Neuter of the same. If Buyer fails to provide such proof within the specified time, Buyer agrees Seller will reclaim ownership of said dog and Buyer shall forfeit all monies paid into said dog. Seller will provide AKC limited registration application.

I had to sign a contract like that. I got London from Purepups.com and everyone has to sign that contract. I plan on spaying her anyway so I don't really mind but I'm not sure what happens if you don't get them neutured/spayed.

Lots of good breeders require a contract. If you are just talking about the Spay/neuter part of the contrats. Breeders have those for a various number of reasons. One is so that people aren't just breeding their pets just to breed cute puppies and flood the market. Another is bc the breeder probably knows more about the puppies qualities than the average buyer, and may have deemed that puppy not show or breed worthy. This helps preserve the breed. There is a lot envolved in breeding and breeders know that most people shouldn't just go around breeding any two dogs together and this is their way of trying to prevent that.

Very common and legal.

Well I am not exactly dumb when it comes to buying a dog. If I pay that much for a dog then it should be up to me. At least I think it should be. If it was up to me I would just look elsewhere. Diesel isn't fixed and I don't plan on breeding him. Oh well.. I was just really curious. I just don't something like this can be enforced.

The reason breeders put this in their contracts is to protect their lines from being indescrimentatly bred. Companion yorkies are sold for less than those that are sold with unlimited registration. Those sold with unlimited registration are sold to people that the breeder has full trust in knowing that their lines will be taken care of. It's really up to the breeder as to how they'll allow their dogs to be sold.

This type of contract can be enforced. But, as stated by someone else, most responsible, reputable breeders are now spay/nuetering their companions before ever leaving their homes.

:thumbdown ..NOPE...
I would not sign and I would not buy..

You know that is all fine and dandy. IF you ae going to spay or neuter your dogs then I would think that means their value goes way down. I don't think that breeders should be asking an arm and leg for pups they are having spayed or neutered. If the prices were lower then I would have no problem with these types of contracts. Don't ask me to pay 1000 plus for a dog that isn't intact.

Some of you guys just don't get it, do you. I have seen yorkies over the years, since 1979 and we are having some real problems with them now. Why? Because we are having people not do the research or testing on their dogs before breeding/ How many on YT that have pups now or are expecting really actually did the testing. Some may have researched lines, but I bet most did not.

If you want just a pet - why would you want to breed it. If you want pups, be up front with the breeder, do the research, testing, and pay a little more for good quality dogs.

I have had people lie right to my face when they wanted a pup and said they promised not to breed the pup and then found out - they slip and actually was the reason they wanted a pup was to eventually breed.
Now we are having people buy AKC pups sign the contract and then go to CKC (Continental) or one of the other registeries behind our backs. The breeder even states that they will guide and help the person in order to breed right - test, pick the right stud, etc... And then then they still went behind their backs and changed registeries becasue they did not want someone telling them what to do, instead of thinking how lucky they were.
With this going on - we are learning not to trust buyers. Sorry, but true. This is why most are asking for adoption applications and spending more and more time talking with buyers.

You are paying for the quality and heritage on a dog when the breeder sets the price. Also the health, since we are also doing the bile acid tests and checking petellas. Having extra testes or uterus - does not mean the dog is worth more - if you just want a pet, companion. You should be happy they are spayed or neutered! Most breaders are going to having the pups already done now when they sell the pups, because of people changing registers now!

I will probably have mine done before they are placed. Should I then as a reputable breeder be penalized and have to charge less for my pups because they are spayed and neutered, when in fact I have had to pay more for them to be spayed or neutered. I do not think this is fair.
The reason I would want my pups in a pet home, maybe being they would be the only dog and they get the one-on-one attention, but I should not have to sell them less because of this.

No one can tell if their pups are worth breeding till they are at least 5-6 months. So if you want a pup from me younger than 5 or 6 months - it will probably be spayed or neutered or at least a solid contract to do so.
I know a lot of breeders - top ones - and if you want a dog from them it will be spayed or neutered unless you can prove you show or have some reputation (good).

There are no short cute to breeding and doing it right. I spay or neuter to protect their lines and my name. I never want to see my name on a pedigree of a dog that is not up to par - really ugly and one with problems. And it can happen if I do not protect my pups. I cannot guarantee that future buyers will do their research and test their dogs before breeding to make sure the quality stays up there. Most reputable breeders feel the same way. So the next time you look for a nice pup - don't think you should get a discount because they are spayed or neutered. You should think how lucky you are!
And if you want to breed - do your research, buy an older pup, pay a little more, test your dogs, and be glad that a breeder wants to help you by mentoring you!
All JMO!
T.

:thumbup:

Bottom line; The breeder doesn't have to sell if you won't sign and I don't have to sell. My mentor spent countless years perfecting and protecting her lines. She trusted me with those lines, therefore it's up to me, to safeguard her trust and lines.

Once again, most reputable/responsible breeders did not just put together a contract, they had it drawn up by a lawyer. And a lot of breeders don't release AKC Registration until prove of spay/nueter has been performed.

As a buyer I dont think a breeder should hae to charge less because they have the dogs S & N before they leave them rr they have a contract that says you have to have it done. If anything i would think they could charge more if they are already spayed or neutered. I think most people are like me and just want a pet from a reputable breeder and if they have already been spayed or neutered or if it says in the contract that they have to be doesnt matter to them.

Absolutely right. $1,000 - $1,500 hundred is the probably the average price for a healthy yorkie with great pedigree.....Breeding and show dogs go for considerably more.

I would think most people wanting companion yorkies would be thrilled that the spay/nuetering had been done up front.....that way they don't have to go through the worrying and hastle of having it done.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

By having your pet spayed or neutered you know you actually lower their risks of getting cancer! Yep! By having a female dog spayed at 6 months of age lowers the chances of them getting mammory tumors. It is very hard to treat. I use to be a vet tech and do know something about this. My sister-in law had a shepard that got mammory tumors. We went in and operated (vet) and tried to get them all out. I assisted and operated the anesthia and oxygen and then helped to suture - close up. We really tried our best to get them all out though. It is so important to get all the tumors or the ones left seem to multiply faster once you have opened the dog. She ended up dying within the next 6 months. She was a great dog - very friendly and so sweet. Her name was Ginger! My vet said that this could have probably been avoided if she had been spayed when younger. So the next time you think - it is your choice not to spay your dog - and you just have her as a pet - think of Ginger!
I guess it is the owner's choice. So when you buy a pup that is already spayed/neutered be thankful!
T.

Around here 1,500 is normal for a pet quality pup without champions in the front of the pedigree. Of course testing and all should still be included. :thumbup: So if spay/neuter is also included - wow, what a great deal!
T.

I would have no problem signing a contract agreeing to have my baby spayed or neutered. I have absolutely no desire to get into the breeding world. As they say, accidents can and do happen! I think a lot of the problems found in the breed today (whether it's yorkies, chi's, labs, etc) is from an accident that happens. The responsible thing to do to prevent unwanted pregnancies with your furbaby IS to have him/her altered. One only needs to visit their nearest animal rescue to see the truth in that sentence. So if you aren't planning on breeding or showing your new furbaby (again, this applies to all breeds), in my opinion, one shouldn't have a problem in signing a contract like that. However, what makes America so great is the fact that we all have different opinions on subject matters. I can appreciate each opinion that is different from mine. But my opinion on this subject is what I've already said, if you don't plan on breeding or showing your furbaby, then you shouldn't have a problem in signing a contract stating you will have him/her altered. It should be a "no brainer".

Can you explain do you mean with out the Champion in front of the puppy's name.

Yes, you're right all testing costs should be included in the price. Bottom line most people think that the breeder is making money, wrong, not if it's done correctly, you're very lucky if you break even.

And most people think they'll pay more if they they buy their yorkies from a breeder/exhibitor, because they sell puppies to support their showing costs.......not so.

No, not infront of the puppy's name - that would make the pup a champion. LOL I mean that the parents or grandparents are not even champions. Here for 1,500 champions are usually found in their pedigrees until the great-granparents. One girl I met gets (and she actually gets it) around 3,000 each for her pups and no champions until the 3rd generation. Even a baseball player not only bought one, but two of her dogs. She does take great photos though! It is really hard to find a good quality yorkie here in Georgia. I know, since I looked around here first when I was deciding to get back into showing/breeding. There are a few great ones - like Ava, but only a handful of great breeders/exhibitors.
T.

I think 1,500 is normal for a pet puppy with testing included, but if the pedigree behind the pup is excepional then would warrent more. I cannot believe that one person can get 3,000. for not much of a pedigreed pup or should charge that much.
On the other hand - It is though up to the breeder to set her/his price.
T.

Not that way in Texas, I can only say that most of the reputable/responsible breeders here have at least 10 generations of Champions in their pedigree and the companion yorkies go for $1,000 - $1,500 on the average.

$3,000 Wow!......amazing. Yes, Ava is great.

There is a catch 22 going on here though. Responsible/Reputable Exhibitor/Breeders are getting more and more stringent with their contracts and who they sell their puppies to. Therefore, the puppymillers and BYB are raking in the buyers because of it.

If you set your price too low - you also may risk the chance of one of your pups going into the hands of a mill or broker and then they turn and sell for more. This is why we have to be so cautious, because they (mill or broker)are actually doing this all the time!
T.

Most of the reputable/responsible exhibitor breeders here work very closely with other breeders, don't advertise or have websites, don't ship. Most of their adoptive families are repeat buyers and/or referred to them by people they know, those that aren't are interrigated thoroughly.

Whew......this is hitting close to home now....
 

As most of you know, I am in the search for a "show prospect" female. And the issue of contracts concern me too......not so much that I have to sign one, because I DO believe they are appropriate. My concern is, I the BUYER deserve to be protected too.......it worries me in general about contracts......maybe if someone could jump into WHAT INFO should be in a contract that protects BOTH the buyer and the seller, that would be most helpful too.....

What is appropriate wording in a contract......about LP, LS, other genetic issues........and isnt LP an issue that occurs due to jumping from high couches and chairs??? or is it genetic and happens regardless?????

Answers would be appreciated....

I do NOT have a fear of signing a contract, but mine is to include that the Yorkie will be shown, and efforts will be made to see that Yorkie get their Championship. I think this is a differenct contract than a Breeding Contract....right????And besides, I will need ALL the MENTORING help I can get to get where I want to be in the YORKIE WORLD.:):)

Yes, Show Contracts and Companion Contracts are seperate with very concise wording. The contract should be there to protect both of you.

Genetic defects should be incorporated in a show contract, just as it is in a companion yorkie contract.

LP can be genetic or brought on by an injury. Wording should clarify that. Therefore, vet check records should accompany the puppy when it leaves the breeders home.

What it boils down to you and your breeder must be in full trust of one another. My breeder has always stood behind everything that she's entrusted me with. I always walk out her door with a smile on my face, babbling, oh boy! another champion......she looks at me and says "we shall see". I finally figured out what that meant; anything can go wrong and she will take it back if the dog doesn't prove to be a show dog.......

Okay -
1. Yes, breeding/showing contracts are and should be different than norm. pet contracts. Wording needs to be different and would be too wordy if one contract included both information.
2. From the research I have collected and asked experts Liver shunts is genectic and
laxtaiting petellas can either be genetic or by accidents. An experienced vet would do x-rays and look at the damage such as scaring, exactly where the damage as occured, etc,,, very involved and costly to know for sure if it was genetic or accidents. This is why covering LP is usually not covered in contracts - genetics. But should be checked before buying.
2. I have signed contracts before and it should protect both the breeder and the buyer. This way everything is spelled out or should be. You can always change certain parts of the contract if both parties agree.
In my last contract in which I bought a show prospect older pup (which I co-own with the breeder) - I have to show that I am making my best effort to show her and gain her championship and includes a pick of litter pup from first breeding and choice of stud is decided together with myself and breeder and then I would gain full ownership only after I show proof of her champion certificate. If something happens along the way and we know I tried everything to get her finished but she just won't be finishable we will talk and redo things.This is a normal contract you would have to follow by any top breeder. Oh, I also must show the breeders name in any advertising at my total cost. And that they are not responsible for any cost of care. But this is what you do if you really want a nice, really nice yorkie to show. I also paid a lot for her and I mean a lot! It is normal!
Main thing is trust! You need to trust one another - it is mutual!
3. When I sell any of my pups - I am also including any mentoring - hours and hours of help if needed at no extra cost. This is what good reputable breeders do because we care ~ no difference if it is for a pet or for show! I have a male pup now that I hope will be good enough to show. You better be sure that I would want him in the right hands.
T.

I forgot to add what you said, when you buy a show dog, you are also buying a mentor. I know that when I purchased my 1st one, my mentor/breeder was there from her 1st puppy match, when she championed and her very last show, before I retired her.

Okay back to the price issue. Most Yorkies with a S/N contract are cheaper than buying one with full registration. There are breeders out there that will offer you breeding rights, if they feel you are worthy, for a little extra. And just bc some of you think their prices are too high for a S/N dog, I'm guessing you aren't looking for a very good quality healthy pet, that is breed the way it is suppose to be, that is healthy and has healthy lines. I know that some out there will say they got their Yorkies for $200 or some other incredibly low price, but I guarentee that the breeder/broker you got it from wasn't of the highest quality. To breed and do it right is very expensive.

Now to the person looking for a show quality female. You want to make sure that you spend the extra and don't have a S/N contract bc you can't show it if it is. Also make sure you are budgeting a pretty penny bc good high quality show Yorkies with good lines are spendy. Forget the $1500 mentioned earlier for pet Yorkies. You will probably end up spending twice that, Unless you have a real good eye and find one somewhere that has exceptional show qualities, but just doesn't have and CH in the pedigree. Good luck in your search.

:thumbup: :thumbup: Couldn't agree more......



Francie

Oh, believe me.....
 

The price of 1500 never entered my mind......LOL........I am fully aware that my budget is dramatically different with my quest for a show Yorkie....as I have been in discussions over nearly the last two years searching for the
right Yorkie......

I am buying more than the Yorkie, is the way I look at it.......I am buying over 30 years of experience........and the Yorkie is the icing on the cake so to speak........you absolutley get what you pay for.....

Thanks for the well wishes....maybe sooner now than later....

I just wanted to add that I know if my dogs had come already spayed or neutered, I would have been very happy ! One less cost to pay in 6 months and less stress for me, having to put them under and worrying about them. It would have already been done! :thumbup:

But I also like the choice of breeding as I've started my breeding program with my Yorkies. So I guess I'm in the middle. I agree to both.