:thumbup: :thumbup:

And so folks... the back yard breeder is born! Followed by the larger scale operations.... Mills.... Turning out Cheap puppies for the masses!!!

Puppies who, in many cases, have not had a proper upbringing, vet care, Vac's, and whatnot!

But hey... poor folks can afford the vet bills when those poorly bred pups fall ill or their genetic faults show up right??? Or do they become the Yorkies that other Poor Folks rescue from the Pounds only to realize that they can't afford to care for them either.... I wonder how many times some of those dogs get shuffled around before someone who Can afford them adopts them.... ????

Maybe Poor Folks should not be spending money on Dogs??? They require a serious amount of upkeep Financially! And it goes WAY BEYOND the cost of Procurement! With Yorkies you are looking at a 15 to 20 year long Commitment! Check ups, Vac's, and preventive care can really add up.... If you properly care for your dog.... You'll spend MANY thousands on it over the years... and I mean your dog could be a down payment on a car by the time your done... Heck, some could pay for a new car outright!

And Did it ever cross anyones mind that a breeder just might charge a really high price in an effort to find a home that CAN afford to give their puppy the life it deserves? The care it needs? The financial security we all would want our Babies to have??

Call me crazy??? But this is how I see it! When I was much younger and paying for gas with Dimes and Quarters... I did not have a Yorkie... I wanted one.... But I could not afford one... End of story!

The costs for a true hobby breeder to produce healthy pups bred to the standard cannot be summed up with a simple listing of vet expenses for shots etc...for the pups. The list of expenses is beyond what most people even consider. I've done a brief sum up of some of this before, but let's get Stacy real depressed and do it again.
First, spend a lot of time and money doing research on the breed, going to shows to see good examples of the standard so you know what you're looking at, buying umpteen books on the subject, taking days off paying work to hang out with your mentor and watch and listen and learn.
Then find good healthy examples from healthy pedigrees for your breeding program and expect to pay $2,500.-$3,500. for each one of them. Off to the vet for testing to insure that they are healthy by running a whole battery of tests. Blood Panels, x-rays, bile acid etc... cha-ching..and let's not forget..where do they live? hmmm add in for crates, ex-pens, pee pads, bedding,towels, harnesses, leads, water bottles, food dishes, chew toys, slipcovers for the furniture...cause you know they gotta hang with you at movie time and fence in the yard so they're safe outside and if you're really nutty build them their own decked play areas fenced within your fenced-in yard so if someone doesn't close the first gate..nobody's escaping. Oh, and make sure you've got the areas separated to keep the boys from playing with girls when they musn't. That's all about another couple of thousand.
Continue to spend more time and money learning and researching and keeping current on the latest innovations in vet care, training etc..
Next..while we're hanging out waiting for that magical litter of pups that will make our fortune....we gotta take care of the little buggers. Okay, so premium food, plus the weekly extras like yogurt, treats and the filet mignon you'll even try grinding up to try to get the stud boys to eat SOMETHING when they start dropping weight because someone is in heat and they forget about food. Vitamins, wormers, nutrical, goats milk, esbilac...keep shopping the carts not full yet. Let's consider hygiene, shall we? Flea and tick stuff, heartworm preventative, Weekly baths..that's a couple hours of work, add in for shampoos, conditioners, coat treatments, nail and hair clippers, scissors, combs, brushes, wipes, toothpaste and the stuff that goes in the water for their teeth and still you have a nice hefty bill for yearly dentals at the vet.
Gotta keep the little darling's happy home clean too so add in for mountains of paper towels, cases of Odo-Ban,sweeping and mopping supplies and the amount of time you spend bent over picking up poo and doing dog laundry.
So now whoopee, you've had a successful tie and are expecting a litter. Whelping kit including box, hemostats, syringes, ky, heating pad, digital thermometer and scale...etc... check(yes, you get to write another one or two). Then off to the vet for x-rays..cha-ching again and cross fingers for a free whelp. Good news, this one did fine and you only missed one week of work waiting for the 'day' and 4 nights of sleep 'til the little angels were out of the woods. No big deal supplementing just one every couple hours round the clock. Now let's do tails and dew claws and immunizations and spend lots more time socializing and training and monitoring their growth and testing their temperment so you can match them well with the new owners...who? oh yes, the people that you have decided should be a good placement and you've spent time teaching them about care and training and after spending hours on the phone,on-line, answering inquiries, hosting visits from a whole slew of maybe interested people. (some of this is fun, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, but it does take a lot of time). You also realize you are at their disposal permanently. You will gladly take calls in the middle of the night to hear about poo.
OOps, forgot paperwork expenses...registration fees, licenses, microchipping..
Now, all that big money that you just hauled in from the sale of those pups...well, you can't touch that for a year, because you have a money back up to purchase price guarantee to cover congenital problems. Well okay, you've done your homework, so that shouldn't be an issue, but still..you gotta wait...so you're still in the red.
Next breeding girl doesn't take, oh well, wait 6 months try again.you still love her.
Next litter, not so great, uterine inertia, emergency C-section (in the middle of the night of course) no viable pup and a mom who throws a blood clot and goes into a coma and requires ICU. Kiss $5,000. goodbye. After a week in ICU you bring her home and nurse her back to health for the next few months. Special diet, syringe feeding..lots of TLC and you don't want to take a chance with her again...so add in the loss of the $3,000. you paid for her. No pups, no profit and you've been taking care of her for a couple years so let's just call it 9K down the tubes....gulp.
Don't forget puppies sometimes do crazy things just to keep you on your toes. Diarhhea and throwing up over a holiday weekend for no apparent reason...they just thought you looked to well rested and you really wanted to spend $450. at the ER for tests and pedialyte.
Do we hope one of these pups produced has show potential?..heck yes, that's the whole point of knowing you're on the right track...so add in for training time, handling classes, show expenses and more time running around.
Are we getting the picture yet? It's a hobby, done correctly and with just the normal amount of good and bad luck, a very expensive hobby for people that love the breed and don't like to add up sums...
Now I will try to not think about this again for awhile...and if I forgot anything, don't remind me, okay?

Kathryn and Stacy ... great posts! :thumbup:

Bravo Stacy, Bravo!!!! Drinks are on me tonight!!! Send me the bill!!!

You are exactly the reason I have NO PROBLEM Paying good money for a Quality Pup!!! Thank you for all that you do!!!

(I'm serious about the Drink!!)

Hey Kathryn....thanks for getting it.

Wow. Thank you so much for your post sylvan. I really appreciate good breeders much much more now. Everyone that is considerng breeding should read your post.
I am repeating myself, but I really cannot thank you enough for helping us realize the effort that goes into breeding these little babies.

This statement right here, "a very expensive hobby for people that love the breed and don't like to add up sums..." is why people should not charge alot for puppies because they do it as a hobby and they love to do it so why charge for something you love to do. If someone is going to complain about all the stuff that needs to be done for the puppies then they should not breed them. And the ones that don't complain then breed them, but just don't expect a high price for them.

There are other dogs that require all that you stated and are top quality and the breeders do not charge thousands of dollars for them. Do you see a pug going for thousands of dollars, a dachshund going for thousands or a chi going for thousands. I mean come on its ridiculous I even seen a yorkie priced at $5000. An A.K.C judge even stated once that a replicable breeder should charge no more than $800-$1000 for a well bred show yorkie and $400-500 for a pet quality. I'm going to find her name and let you know where you can read that article. And I know this judge knows all the costs that goes into breeding a quality yorkie. Breeders charge this for YORKIES because they know people will pay the price for them. But, in reality the yorkies really don't cost that much.

No matter how much money you have the fact of the matter is breeders are charging too much for the yorkie breed and it's getting ridiculous. I have funds and I think its too much I bought my house, "cash" no payments, I bought my car, "cash" no payments, so not all people complaining about the high priced yorkies are poor.

It's only fair that people should be paid for their breeding efforts and hard work.

I, personally, couldn't take a little puppy from someone without paying something for it. It's only fair that people be compensated as much as possible for their expenses - and then even more (if they are professional breeders) for their efforts to maintain and produce high quality purebreeds.

Not paying - is almost like saying that all the farmers should get their chickens, pigs, horses, and cows free also ---

Very few things in life are free. And, being compensated assures most breeders that they can afford to take very good care of their little puppies - their shots, deworming, docking, dew claws removed - vet trips when necessary, etc. And, it helps them with any expenses the mother dog might incur also.

Though $$$$ are what encourage a lot of puppymills, poor breeders, etc.

$$$ (being compensated) are also what help our very best breeders do the wonderful jobs they do also. Few people could breed if every penny had to come out of their own pocket....

Carol Jean

Thank you for 'paying' attention...:D

Hummm... $75.00 dollars for a bunny???? :eek: :eek: With out a money back guarentee???? :eek: :eek: Geeesh what happen to the hobby???? Isn't these price exorbitant???

Great Post Stacy and Kathryn_V !!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: And to all of the rest of you that understand us breeders that want to make sure you get the best, healthest, and well solicatized pup that we can produce for loving homes.

nobody yell at me, but I think it would be ludicrous to expect a breeder to not be paid for their time, to reimburse their expenses, etc. Someone pointed out that there's a difference between working because you "have" to, and working because you "love" what you do (as breeders say).

I'll put this argument in perspective to myself. I "have" to work. Almost every adult person I've ever run into has bills to pay, and so you work to pay them. So I "have" to have a job. However, I also work in radio, and I "love" radio because it's so fun it's not like holding a 'real' job. Because I love it, should I earn no money for it? Should I only be reimbursed for work that I hate--say, I go be a DJ for free on weekends, but get paid to do something that I'd really hate to do Monday-Friday? I should only be allowed to get paid for doing things that I dislike, and should do things that I love for free, simply because I love it?

Did we just time-warp back to the U.S.S.R. or something?

Anyway yes, I believe you should be paid for what you do.

I also believe the high cost of a dog is a DETERRENT to both to irresponsible owners who would get a dog as an impulse purchase, and to good-intentioned owners who would be wonderful pet parents "if only"...if only they could afford the vaccinations...the obedience lessons...the spay/neutering...had enough time to spend...the list goes on and on and on.

The burden is put on the buyer of the dog, then, to seek out responsible breeders...even to look at rescues & shelters as a first stop on the road to pet ownership. I did that, but alas all I could find was pit bulls and I don't think I'd be a good "pet parent" to a breed of dog that I am wary and downright afraid of.

And the burden is on the breeder to responsibly breed, and to sell to people they feel could care for their babies. I personally like the questions breeders ask potential customers on TOP of charging money. To me, that's a mark of responsiblity. They are, after all, tranferring the care of a living being to another person.

Thanks Kathryn and Stacy for those posts...especially Stacy, I went back over that one and read it again. That should be pinned somewhere!

:thumbup: :thumbup:

[QUOTE=candybaby]Nobody attack me I'm just stating my opinion.

I agree with you when I was looking to buy a yorky, many breeders asked 2,700 and up. It was too much for my budget and after a few months and hard research in newspapers, internet etc... I found my Kissie for 1,000.
It's reasonable but now she is priceless.:animal36 :thumbup:

I understand what goes into breeding. We breed quarter horses. They is even a greater price increase there because you only get one baby to make back your vet costs & such. The only problem I have is the cost of these small breed dogs compared to other purebreds. I understand why they cost more. One you don't get as many puppies as larger breeds, & two it's supply & demand. Yorkies are still a somewhat rare breed in some areas & they are very hot right now because of celebrities. There are more people that want them then there are puppies available therefore higher prices. Take for example the breeder I got Logan from. The lady has a male & female only. They live in her home & she takes wonderful care of them. When I bought Logan a year ago he was $400. He is on the bigger side, but the picture of health. He is very smart & has a great personality. I contacted her to buy Logan a sister. She has raised her prices $200 in the past year because everyone told her how cheap her pups were that she could get more for them. $600 is still cheap, however, it proves my point that she did not raise the prices to cover expenses she raised the prices because there is such a great demand for these little guys that some people will pay any price just to own one.

the old adage "you get what you pay for"...if you want a Pug perhaps you should go buy a pug, there is NO comparison!

Candybaby, Replicable breeder? I believe you mean reputable...any puppy buyer on YT (thats been here long enough) understands its vitally important to know the breed, study its attributes, the parents and the pedigrees.

To suggest we are over priced??? Thats just plain silly, many of us REPUTABLE breeders have detailed our breeding expenses and time involved producing a WELL BRED, GREAT REPRESENTATION OF THE BREED!

Using your logic, your $75.00 bunny cost the same to breed as the $5.00 down the road. Why are your breeding cost higher? How do you determine your pricing? Are you breeding for profit?

Your breeder must have a very small program where she is only breeding a few pets. It doesnt make her any less reputable, but her program is probably not designed for the betterment of the breed.

Her pricing reflects the usual form as a small BYB. Most BYB"S do not know their bloodlines or know anything about their pedigrees, do not do testing prior to entering them into his/her breeding program. Most BYB's do not take thought in matching breeding pairs, rarely give a 1 year guarantee, lets their pups go 6-8 weeks with one vaccination and more than likely hasnt seen the vet more than once (tail docking and dewclaws).

Pugs are cheap? Are you kidding! My friend Rachel bought a little Pug (she named him Puggles LOLOL how cute is that!!!) and he cost her WAY MORE than my Yorkies cost me (Tia was $1,600 and Kaite (RIP) was $1,200)!! She paid $3,500 for him!! My co-worker John (another huge animal lover like me) has 2 cutie pie sharpies (not sure if spelling is correct lol) and he spent $6,000 for the girl and his partner just bought him a little boy so that the girl would have a friend and he cost $4,800. All these dogs were bought from quality breeders -- NOT pet stores. So to say that just Yorkies are expensive is not accurate. I also know of a great breeder of Labs in New Jersey and she charges a set price of $1,500 (doesn't matter if it's male or female). Her price only goes up if she has complications with the litter or the pup requires any special extra vet care. When my dad bought his first German Shepherd years ago (he was a beloved family pet for 13 years -- rest in peace Blacky) he paid $1,000 for him and that is going back almost 20 years ago.

Lets get one thing straight. I NEVER SAID I RAISE RABBITS AS A HOBBY AND I NEVER STATED I DID NOT GET A LITTLE EXTRA MONEY TO SPEND. "NOW DID I". DONT GET IT TWISTED. READ THE OTHER POSTS BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETING STUPID LIKE THIS.

Also you know nothing about rabbits otherwise you would know those Blue eyed white (BEW) lionhead bunnies go for $150, so YES I'm cheap and so should people be with the yorkies, thats all I'm saying. One cage alone costs about a $100 dollars (and every bunny needs their own cage), and that does not include food, bottles, feeding dishes, fresh alfalfa hay, bedding, among alot of other things. You don't see me complaining or charging an arm and a leg. Before you state something stupid like this do your research on show rabbits and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You nothing NOTHING about show rabbits. So, I don't want to here another thing about my prices, they are cheap unlike some yorkies.

Read my other post once again you know nothing about show rabbits or you would know my prices are cheap. As for the spelling error I'v seen in other posts you'v made them as well and this is YT not Stanford University.

So, I guess the ones attacking me are the outrageously priced yorkie breeders. Don't talk to me about breeding whether it's a rabbit or a dog because I do my research unlike some of you and I know what goes into it and what a reasonable price is for one. And thousands of dollars is not reasonably priced. END OF SUBJECT FOR ME!!!

PRAISE THE LORD!!!!

Somebody gets it; its all a matter of SUPPLY AND DEMAND

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

So what's the difference between you putting effort into breeding and researching and producing a quality rabbit that you charge 75.00 for when anyone can buy just any old rabbit for 5.00...and a reputable yorkie breeder who puts effort into breeding and researching and producing a quality yorkie and charges 1,800 when someone can buy any old yorkie for 800. ? I would say the percentage of mark up there is bit higher on rabbits.
and before you start pointing fingers at who does research and who does not...you may want to read up a bit.

If I calculate correctly the mark up there is higher on the yorkies $1000 more versus $70 more, come on now we all went to school. Once again this proves my point you did not do your research or you would know it's a lionhead rabbit not any rabbit and you cannot find a LIONHEAD rabbit for $5, not even in a pet store, you can find a cheap yorkie in a pet store. To me a yorkie is a yorkie and paying that much is crazy and I'm talking about $2,000 and up (it seems I have to clarify everything or everyone twists my words).

We all know a well bred healthy yorkie should not cost that much (2,000 up), everyone just keeps lying to themselves and saying its okay to charge that because alot of time and money have been put into them, but in reality its way toooooooo much. And like I said in a different post an A.K.C judge EVEN stated people are getting out of control on the pricing of yorkies. Once I find that article I will definatly post it.


P.S.
And I'v done ALL my research and some I think you need to research a little more.

I do know a little about rabbits as my father was a breeder of them and I have friends that actively show them... But just for comparison thought I would do a quick search.. Here are a few links to the lionheads bunnies and what others are selling them for... I tried to find breeders that do show these bunnies.

http://janinespride.com/pricing.html
https://www.usfreeads.com/494808-cls.html
http://www.petsads.com/a_20686.html
http://home.comcast.net/~p.j.bunnies/forsale.html

But I am not going to get into a pissing match here with you. I am confident in what I do and don't need validation from you or anyone else for that matter. I find it amazing when you are the one now being questioned here how you can justify yourself and your prices... And how you place judgement on others, but whatever...

You know what I was thinking about this thread and this is stupid arguing over a price of our little furbies our babies are priceless. If you feel your babies are worth that much then sell them for that I'm sure their worth every penny. Thanks to breeders like you guys the yorkies are nicely bred and are of quality. I'm sorry if I said anything that offened any of you guys.

Anyhow, I hope there are no hard feelings :D !!!

Like I said I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

You buy a breeding doe/buck $100 a pair
Yorkie average "good example of the breed $5000 for the pair" if your lucky.

Breed age of Rabbits 6 months
Breed age of a Yorkie average 15-18 months

rabbit gestation is 30 days and capable of producing up to six litters a year yielding 1-12 babies per litter - most bunnies are sold at 1 month old

Yorkie gestation is 63 days yielding 1-3 babies per litter and capable of producing on average one litter every 9-12 months- most pups are placed after 3 months old.


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM - how can you even begin to compare the cost of breeding Rabbits to a Yorkie?