Liver Shunt and what to do about Breeder - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Yorkybaby · 04-28-2006, 05:34 AM

Hello,

It has been confirmed by top doctors in my town that my Lucy has Liver Shunt. It is not operable as if i choose to pay the 4,000-5,000 she could have a 50/50 chance of suvival and most likely will have life threatning problems after surgery. My doctor studied with Dr.Tobias and they are friends. She is going to be sending her report to Dr.Tobias ans they will discuss this on the phone together to see her comments about my dog.
What i am frusterated now with is the Orginal Breeder is making all kinds of claims how this "dog" can't possibly be hers and her concience is clear of that. I didn't buy my dog directly through her so she claims that she has no contract with me. She is doing everything to wash her hands of this. I have asked her what i can expect from her as to my problem. I am into this for 1,000 to get the answers i have to get her better - and then to diagnois the problem. She is now saying people alter tattooing and that she has no idea whose dog i have, well I have the dog that was born in her home and her tatto is not altered and matches her registration papers. I guess when she did sell the dog to the 1st lady it was agreed to be spayed. Which was never done. She continues to talk about this lady she sold the dog to and how she knew she shouldn't of sold her too her as she lied etc. I explain to her that has nothing to do with LS and the fact I have the dog now and expect the breeder to do something and honor her website says she guarnettes against LIver Shunt and life altering diseases etc.
I want her to end this at the very least so that others do not go on to purchase dogs from her and be in the same situation my family is in.
I told her i would do a DNA if she felt she needed proof. I will not post her name of her Kennel - if i ever posted her name i would like to add that she did take ownership and was accountable for this.
Any advice on what i should do next would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

chachi · 04-28-2006, 05:41 AM

You could try taking her to small claims court. I would post the name of the kennel so no one else purchases from her. I am sorry this is happening to you.

Kodiesmom · 04-28-2006, 05:48 AM

I dont know how to handle your situation.. i'm sorry...

but.. who is Dr. Tobias? and where is that doc located?

When my dog kodie was going through testing for a shunt.. he saw Dr. Center at Cornell Unversity. I DID hear of a top doctor for shunt surgery but I forget their name... is that Dr. Tobias?

Patti · 04-28-2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiesmom

I dont know how to handle your situation.. i'm sorry...

but.. who is Dr. Tobias? and where is that doc located?

When my dog kodie was going through testing for a shunt.. he saw Dr. Center at Cornell Unversity. I DID hear of a top doctor for shunt surgery but I forget their name... is that Dr. Tobias?

Yes Dr. Tobias is out of Univ of Tenn and when Cali was going through her LS diagnosis I emailed her and she was very quick in responding.

As far as the Breeder have youchecked with an attorney as to her responsibilty since you were not the original buyer. I'm not sure how that effects her guarantee. It seems to me that is bad business for her to not honor it but if there is nothing you have in writing it may not be anything you can do. Which stinks! I did not have a genetic guarantee on Cali but I did let the breeder know and she said she would not breed the parents again and would notify the owners of her 2 siblings. Whether she does that or not I don't know. It seems like this LS is becoming more and more prevelent because of bad breeders ie puppy mills aetc who don't care about the puppies or what it does to an owner who goes through this with their baby.
Good luck.

yorkiegirl2 · 04-28-2006, 06:38 AM

I'm sorry you are going through this.
The problem here is you bought the dog through a third party.
If I read your post right.
Contracts usually do not cover or carry over to another person.
Unless the breeder approves it.
The first person who purchased the dog never had the dog spayed which voids most contracts.
Are you sure the person you bought the dog from, didn't know the dog had a shunt and passed the problem on to you?
If you had purchased directly from the breeder, then she would of had to cover the dog...
I'm sorry but I don't think there is anything you can do about it.
Has this breeders.. breeding dogs been tested for shunts?
Was the dog you purchased inbred?
There are a couple different types of shunts.
http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=882
http://www.vet.utk.edu/clinical/sacs/shunt/faq.shtml
http://www.petsdoc.com/html/asktheve...vershunts.html

livingdustmops · 04-28-2006, 06:46 AM

Here is another great link through Yorkshire Terrier National Rescue. It does list doctors.

http://www.yorkierescue.com/livershunt/livershunt.shtml

sneri13 · 04-28-2006, 06:53 AM

Was the woman you brought her from a broker or did she buy her and then resell her. If it's a broker she should also have some kind of contract. If she brought her and resold her I am not sure you have a contract with the breeder. Best of Luck.

Yorkybaby · 04-28-2006, 07:05 AM

She has openly admitted finally that she has 3 shunts in 3 differnt dogs in the 26 years of breeding/showing.

I didn't in the beginning demand $ from her. I don't expect her to repay me what i purchased the dog for. I didn't buy the dog from her - but i do know the dog came from her breeding program. I would like her to take ownership for that and be accountable. I asked her to work with me. She had done nothing of the sort.
You would think it doesn't matter how many hands a dog goes through in this situation - you can't catch liver shunt, your born with it. Its nothing i did, nor the previous owner.

Rem&Silkmom · 04-28-2006, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkybaby

She has openly admitted finally that she has 3 shunts in 3 differnt dogs in the 26 years of breeding/showing.

I didn't in the beginning demand $ from her. I don't expect her to repay me what i purchased the dog for. I didn't buy the dog from her - but i do know the dog came from her breeding program. I would like her to take ownership for that and be accountable. I asked her to work with me. She had done nothing of the sort.
You would think it doesn't matter how many hands a dog goes through in this situation - you can't catch liver shunt, your born with it. Its nothing i did, nor the previous owner.

Just curious why you don't want to post her name or the kennel name?

Yorkybaby · 04-28-2006, 07:57 AM

Oh i want too and I will. I am just waiting for my doctor to send her the reports and this will give her the opportunity to review them and do the right thing.

Yorkybaby · 04-28-2006, 10:22 AM

I found out legally i am aloud to post my story, pictures of my dog, her tattoo, her registration papers where she came from, what the kennel name is but i should not slander the Breeder which i won't do and apolagize if i have talked about in any way shape or form. This is to let others no that my dog has Liver Shunt and its been confirmed from the top Specialists in my area and if i can save somebody else from going through the termoil, expense then I will find comfort in that. Yorkies are such a passion for me, I love them and it makes me sad that i have one that has touched my childrens lives and many people in my life and her life is going to live much shorter then it should be. I still have so many decisions to face upon here. I am waiting for the results back from my Vet and then i will post it in hopes that i can save someone else, educate anyone that is thinking of purchasing a Yorkie - whatever you do... Please, please demand a acid bile test, a Pre and a post. This is a forsure way to know that your dog does not have Liver Shunt. I feel for the breeder in many ways too. The last thing a Breeder wants to hear is that a dog comes back testing postive for Liver Shunt. We aren't all perfect we are only human and things happen that just happen. I just trusted that a kennel in business for 26 years would be pretty knowledgeable on their genes of their Yorkies.
I know in my heart that this will have a happy ending for all involved. I am much more educated myself now and in owning Yorkies i should of been to begin with. I am trying to find the good in something that has a very bad situation.
Don't forget - Acid Bile Test. Pre and Post!

Tophersmom · 04-28-2006, 10:48 AM

Well, unfortunately,I think that you might not have an avenue here as 1) the dog wasn't spayed, which most likely will void the contract, and 2) you, personally, do not have a contract with the breeder...the original owner does. These contracts are usually not transferable to a third party, unless mentioned in the contract.

I don't know alot about contract law, but I think the contract might not be worth the paper it's written on right now, and because of that, the breeder (legally) does not have to do a thing to honor it. She probably feels betrayed a bit by the original owner, and a bit upset being she wasn't contacted by the original owner when she decided to give up the dog.

I'd definitely check with a lawyer, to see what your options are.

I'm so sorry to hear about your little one...I hope that she can get well and that things work out for you.

shelbysmom · 04-28-2006, 11:23 AM

I am confused. You got this dog from someone other than the breeder and you decided to breed her even though she was sold with a limited registration? The dog got ill (when she was pregnant) and since it is LS you want the original breeder to cover you?

I appreciate your warning about liver shunt for future puppy buyers but it seems like there are details in your story that are left out?

Who did you buy the dog from? Why? Did you get her to breed knowing that she wasn't supposed to be bred?

If I am incorrect in trying to figure this out I am sorry.

txshopper73 · 04-28-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbysmom

I am confused. You got this dog from someone other than the breeder and you decided to breed her even though she was sold with a limited registration? The dog got ill (when she was pregnant) and since it is LS you want the original breeder to cover you?

I appreciate your warning about liver shunt for future puppy buyers but it seems like there are details in your story that are left out?

Who did you buy the dog from? Why? Did you get her to breed knowing that she wasn't supposed to be bred?

If I am incorrect in trying to figure this out I am sorry.

hmmmm....I didn't see that anywhere...

I'm sorry that you are going through this. I hope this person is not a member here or is he/she?

Yorkybaby · 04-28-2006, 12:05 PM

I bought the dog from a breeder who has been helping me along the way here. I am sure she will be the one that helps in the end. When i bought her i have open registration papers, She then became my dog to do what ever i choose with. I didn't know the "history" of the dog that i do now and now i can understand why the orginal breeder feels betrayed. I can see that. I contacted the orginal breeder to discuss that she has what she has. I thought that was a obligation of mine to the breeder, to my dog and to all of you purchasing dogs out there yes? The breeder was not helpful in the beginning. I am not the bad person here - I have beat myself up in the beginning wondering if i possibly did something to my dog to make her sick - when in fact she was born with it.

04-28-2006, 05:34 AM	#1
Yorkybaby Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 21	Liver Shunt and what to do about Breeder Hello, It has been confirmed by top doctors in my town that my Lucy has Liver Shunt. It is not operable as if i choose to pay the 4,000-5,000 she could have a 50/50 chance of suvival and most likely will have life threatning problems after surgery. My doctor studied with Dr.Tobias and they are friends. She is going to be sending her report to Dr.Tobias ans they will discuss this on the phone together to see her comments about my dog. What i am frusterated now with is the Orginal Breeder is making all kinds of claims how this "dog" can't possibly be hers and her concience is clear of that. I didn't buy my dog directly through her so she claims that she has no contract with me. She is doing everything to wash her hands of this. I have asked her what i can expect from her as to my problem. I am into this for 1,000 to get the answers i have to get her better - and then to diagnois the problem. She is now saying people alter tattooing and that she has no idea whose dog i have, well I have the dog that was born in her home and her tatto is not altered and matches her registration papers. I guess when she did sell the dog to the 1st lady it was agreed to be spayed. Which was never done. She continues to talk about this lady she sold the dog to and how she knew she shouldn't of sold her too her as she lied etc. I explain to her that has nothing to do with LS and the fact I have the dog now and expect the breeder to do something and honor her website says she guarnettes against LIver Shunt and life altering diseases etc. I want her to end this at the very least so that others do not go on to purchase dogs from her and be in the same situation my family is in. I told her i would do a DNA if she felt she needed proof. I will not post her name of her Kennel - if i ever posted her name i would like to add that she did take ownership and was accountable for this. Any advice on what i should do next would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

04-28-2006, 05:41 AM	#2
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	You could try taking her to small claims court. I would post the name of the kennel so no one else purchases from her. I am sorry this is happening to you. __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

04-28-2006, 06:46 AM	#6
livingdustmops Princess Poop A Lot Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,728	Here is another great link through Yorkshire Terrier National Rescue. It does list doctors. http://www.yorkierescue.com/livershunt/livershunt.shtml __________________ Cindy & The Rescued Gang Puppies Are Not Products!

04-28-2006, 06:53 AM	#7
sneri13 Luv My Spoiled Babies Donating Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,065	Was the woman you brought her from a broker or did she buy her and then resell her. If it's a broker she should also have some kind of contract. If she brought her and resold her I am not sure you have a contract with the breeder. Best of Luck. __________________ Susan Mac Mellie & Manny Until we meet again at Rainbow Bridge

04-28-2006, 10:48 AM	#12
Tophersmom Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sault Ste. Marie Ontario Canada Posts: 860	Well, unfortunately,I think that you might not have an avenue here as 1) the dog wasn't spayed, which most likely will void the contract, and 2) you, personally, do not have a contract with the breeder...the original owner does. These contracts are usually not transferable to a third party, unless mentioned in the contract. I don't know alot about contract law, but I think the contract might not be worth the paper it's written on right now, and because of that, the breeder (legally) does not have to do a thing to honor it. She probably feels betrayed a bit by the original owner, and a bit upset being she wasn't contacted by the original owner when she decided to give up the dog. I'd definitely check with a lawyer, to see what your options are. I'm so sorry to hear about your little one...I hope that she can get well and that things work out for you. __________________ VAL, TOPHER AND SOPHIE http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?j=t&i=295683

04-28-2006, 05:48 AM	#3
Kodiesmom Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 183	I dont know how to handle your situation.. i'm sorry... but.. who is Dr. Tobias? and where is that doc located? When my dog kodie was going through testing for a shunt.. he saw Dr. Center at Cornell Unversity. I DID hear of a top doctor for shunt surgery but I forget their name... is that Dr. Tobias?

04-28-2006, 06:38 AM	#5
yorkiegirl2 YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,394	I'm sorry you are going through this. The problem here is you bought the dog through a third party. If I read your post right. Contracts usually do not cover or carry over to another person. Unless the breeder approves it. The first person who purchased the dog never had the dog spayed which voids most contracts. Are you sure the person you bought the dog from, didn't know the dog had a shunt and passed the problem on to you? If you had purchased directly from the breeder, then she would of had to cover the dog... I'm sorry but I don't think there is anything you can do about it. Has this breeders.. breeding dogs been tested for shunts? Was the dog you purchased inbred? There are a couple different types of shunts. http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=882 http://www.vet.utk.edu/clinical/sacs/shunt/faq.shtml http://www.petsdoc.com/html/asktheve...vershunts.html

04-28-2006, 07:05 AM	#8
Yorkybaby Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 21	She has openly admitted finally that she has 3 shunts in 3 differnt dogs in the 26 years of breeding/showing. I didn't in the beginning demand $ from her. I don't expect her to repay me what i purchased the dog for. I didn't buy the dog from her - but i do know the dog came from her breeding program. I would like her to take ownership for that and be accountable. I asked her to work with me. She had done nothing of the sort. You would think it doesn't matter how many hands a dog goes through in this situation - you can't catch liver shunt, your born with it. Its nothing i did, nor the previous owner.

04-28-2006, 07:57 AM	#10
Yorkybaby Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 21	Oh i want too and I will. I am just waiting for my doctor to send her the reports and this will give her the opportunity to review them and do the right thing.

04-28-2006, 10:22 AM	#11
Yorkybaby Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 21	I found out legally i am aloud to post my story, pictures of my dog, her tattoo, her registration papers where she came from, what the kennel name is but i should not slander the Breeder which i won't do and apolagize if i have talked about in any way shape or form. This is to let others no that my dog has Liver Shunt and its been confirmed from the top Specialists in my area and if i can save somebody else from going through the termoil, expense then I will find comfort in that. Yorkies are such a passion for me, I love them and it makes me sad that i have one that has touched my childrens lives and many people in my life and her life is going to live much shorter then it should be. I still have so many decisions to face upon here. I am waiting for the results back from my Vet and then i will post it in hopes that i can save someone else, educate anyone that is thinking of purchasing a Yorkie - whatever you do... Please, please demand a acid bile test, a Pre and a post. This is a forsure way to know that your dog does not have Liver Shunt. I feel for the breeder in many ways too. The last thing a Breeder wants to hear is that a dog comes back testing postive for Liver Shunt. We aren't all perfect we are only human and things happen that just happen. I just trusted that a kennel in business for 26 years would be pretty knowledgeable on their genes of their Yorkies. I know in my heart that this will have a happy ending for all involved. I am much more educated myself now and in owning Yorkies i should of been to begin with. I am trying to find the good in something that has a very bad situation. Don't forget - Acid Bile Test. Pre and Post!

04-28-2006, 11:23 AM	#13
shelbysmom YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,394	I am confused. You got this dog from someone other than the breeder and you decided to breed her even though she was sold with a limited registration? The dog got ill (when she was pregnant) and since it is LS you want the original breeder to cover you? I appreciate your warning about liver shunt for future puppy buyers but it seems like there are details in your story that are left out? Who did you buy the dog from? Why? Did you get her to breed knowing that she wasn't supposed to be bred? If I am incorrect in trying to figure this out I am sorry.

04-28-2006, 12:05 PM	#15
Yorkybaby Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 21	I bought the dog from a breeder who has been helping me along the way here. I am sure she will be the one that helps in the end. When i bought her i have open registration papers, She then became my dog to do what ever i choose with. I didn't know the "history" of the dog that i do now and now i can understand why the orginal breeder feels betrayed. I can see that. I contacted the orginal breeder to discuss that she has what she has. I thought that was a obligation of mine to the breeder, to my dog and to all of you purchasing dogs out there yes? The breeder was not helpful in the beginning. I am not the bad person here - I have beat myself up in the beginning wondering if i possibly did something to my dog to make her sick - when in fact she was born with it.