Before I take any meds I research it, I do the same for my dog. I read every article I could find on Double P ll after I read the first one and the danger of using it before I put him on it. I chose to follow my vets recovery program. I don't "generally" trust my vet, I completely trust my vet, she is very knowledgeable about these Chinese herbs. My now passed girl Matese had chushings when she was 8 years old, when she was 14 years old she lost most of her hair, my vet put her one of the Chinese herbs, I wish I had kept all of her medical papers to say what she had that she lost most of her hair and the name of the herb that helped her, this Chinese herb she was on made her hair grow back in a matter of months, that made me a believer of these herbs. My vet is very much aware of what goes into these herbs, if she feels it's what needed I give it.

She has reduced the number of times Cody is to take it, I can't lie even tho member yorktowny said I lied to get Cody in for a ER visit, I'm not a liar, I can't say giving it to Cody every other day didn't agree with him unless it's true.





Taylor thank you for your concern, I know it's in Codys best interest. My vet changed the Double P ll to every other day and the Cervical also to every other day, I have to try this method after Cody is back to normal. At the first sign of diarrhea I'll take him off and then I am done with these herbs.Obviously my vets feels his needs these herbs to help him heal and reason is still wants him on them with a lower dose in his system.

Cody is my gift from her, she saved his life, I trust my vets decision. I have to at least try this every other day of giving theses herbs.

I didn’t intend to imply that you might lie about Cody’s reaction to the medication. It’s pretty clear that the initial dosing didn’t agree with his digestive system, and it isn’t certain that a less frequent dose won’t have the same effect.

(For the record, I didn’t comment on the earlier discussion about “lying” to get faster medical care, but only because I felt the person who made the initial criticism was being unnecessarily critical. I’ve been the person sitting in the vet’s office, waiting well past my appointment time, because the vet was handling an emergency. I’ve also been the person who called for emergency help — probably more often than the average person, because that’s the nature of rescue work. The person calling for emergency help might not always be completely clear and accurate. Who can be when dealing with a sudden illness or injury? But I always give the benefit of the doubt to the person with the emergency. I’ve been there too many times myself and understand the feeling of urgency.)

Anyway, as I said earlier, I don’t have anything against herbal remedies in general. Many of them have been studied and found to be safe and effective, with minimal adverse side effects. I’m only uneasy about the Double P II because it has extremely toxic ingredients and Cody has already had a pretty bad reaction to it. And even though (if I remember correctly) he’s a larger yorkie, he’s still a small dog. The “safe” margin of error when he’s taking a product containing strychnine can’t be very large. Many pharmaceuticals are toxic, too, but they’re subject to government quality control standards. Herbal products aren’t, so the chance of quality control issues is higher. So between the fact that different animals are going to react differently to different medications and the fact that herbal products are subject to more quality control issues, that particular product seems to be a risk.

I’m not criticizing you or your vet. I’m just saying the more toxic and less regulated a substance, the more leery I am. Cody is your baby, and I know you’re doing your best to do what’s right for him.

:thumbup::thumbup:

There is no tone in this post.

Yes, Cody is a larger yorkie at 12 pounds but tiny to me after having a 17 Lb girl for 17 years.

Cody was originally on Double P ll and Cervical twice a day, on day 1 (8/26) he showed signs of diarrhea, I called the vet who gave me Metronidazole take twice a day to stop the diarrhea a 5 day supply and changed the Double P ll to once a day to be given at night, changed Cervical to once a day given in the morning. Diarrhea stopped, stool was normal form but very sticky. The Metronidazole was finished on 9/1, on 9/2 diarrhea started, I had a follow up appt. on 9/4, there was no sense for me to call since it took 15 hours for the tech to call me to pick up the Metronidazole, by time they would call me back would be the day of my appt. On 9/4 I gave the tech that took Cody a note he's had diarrhea dierrhea since 9/2, I wanted more Metronidazole, I was given a 2 week supply along with a 2 week follow up which is his Friday the 18th.

Since my 9/4 appt. was for 5:30 PM when I came home I gave Cody one
Metronidazole pill.
9/5 AM I gave him the morning dose, then the 2nd pill at 6PM after he ate.

9/7 diarrhea was worse.

9/8 I stopped all meds. called the office told them what was going on and he wasn't eating his kibble, I put him on chicken and rice. As soon as I finished that call (9 AM) I sent my vet an email explaining everything and taking him off all meds until I heard back from her.

9/11 6:45AM I called the office to see if my vet left instructions for a med. change, the gal that answered the phone was a tech I dealt with for years when my Matese was in and out of the hospital, I told her about the diarrhea and the 9/8 email. She told me to resend the email but up-date to include the chic/rice. she said she calls the vet everyday at 11AM to report on the animals that are in the hospital, she would ask the vet if she read my email, a tech would call me.

6PM I had not heard from anyone, I called to see if my vet left a med change, I was told no, that receptionist said she wrote down all that I had told her, she said the vet was busy with her appointments, she would give her the note when she sees the vet.
That office is set up with 2 exam rooms right where the receptionist sits, with other exam room in the back of the building.
9/12 finally tech calls me with this new change change of Double P ll and Cervical.
This is my theory, in humans on new meds it's a trail and error / hit or miss in giving new meds. some meds have to be increased or decreased in dosage amount, in some cases the med has to be changed to something else, well, it works the same for animals. My vet disburses dosage (as all vets do) based on weight of the animal, as a 12 Lb dog I am sure he's at the lowest dosage. I have to at least try this every other day plan after he is back on his kibble. At the first sign of diarrhea, I stop it and call the vet / office. My vet would not use this herb unless she feels this is the best for his injury.
If I could not use this vet, I would not have a dog, that's how good she at diagnosing an illness, she is spot on. I have complete trust 1000% in this vet.

Yes I am upset, angry, that I have to wait days for her to get back to me, but we have a Pandemic going on and I just have to adjust / accept this just may be a new way of life and vet care. There may be a lot of changes we all will have to get use to until this pandemic is over, if it ever is. But one thing is for sure, I will never stop using this vet no matter how angry I may get.
I know your concern for Cody, and I do appreciate your input.

My issue was not with just the diarrhea possibly being caused by the herbs but the information I found out about it. The toxicity of that one is troubling to me because I am one of those people who refuse to give anything toxic like some people feel a certain amount of garlic is ok for dogs but essentially it is considered toxic so I refuse to give any. There is also no testing what so ever on herbs so you don’t know that he could develop some form of an issue later in life. We have no idea that that herb couldn’t slowly poisoning him in fact that in my opinion is what his body was showing by not eating and having diarrhea or cause even cancer later on. I understand you trust your vet but we must all use common sense also. There are FDA approved drugs that can be dangerous also but we know what could happen with those drugs unlike untested herbs. Going with some of these issues you have been having with your vet I’m thinking that she has lack of respect for some clients. Our pups have no choice but to live with what we do for them so completely trusting the vet and not even doing the slightest research isn’t in their best interest. You can also look at it this way most vets will sell you Trifexis knowing there have been a massive amount of deaths related to it but you have to be your dogs advocate to say no that’s dangerous I don’t want to give that. This is the same way there are medical facts stating that herb is toxic and dangerous. When Joey got diarrhea from a pain medicine I had it written down to never give it again in his chart and I have it written in my notes. When Penny reacted poorly to an ear medication I had it written down to never give it again. I don’t give second chances to medicines that have caused discomfort or issues because if their body is rejecting it like that then it’s just not meant for them. I’m just really kind of upset about this honestly. I feel and care about the people on this forum and I just am extremely worried about him taking something that is considered toxic and that his body didn’t agree with.

"Completely trusting the vet and not even doing the slightest research"
How do you make this kind of statement? Are you saying my vet didn't do "the slightest research" or I didn't?

I’m saying ANYONE to just straight out trust their vet without doing their research is not in the best interest of their pet. I have yet to see anything good written about that herb so I’m still confused how you could have done research on it and still been ok with it. I’m not trying to attack. I’m just concerned. Considering it’s not a real medication and it’s toxicity it is very disturbing to me that the vet would continue with it if adverse reactions were being shown. Vets are still human and can make mistakes and put their own personal opinion in on things when that’s not always in the best interest of the client just like human doctors. Like I have said in the past some of these “natural” things can be a heck of a lot worse then regular medication. Like for example the only reason I used CBD oil with Callie was because it was at the end of her life and it was about keeping her comfortable so I wasn’t worried about long term effects it could have. I wouldn’t use it with my younger ones because there are no studies yet that look at all the possible side effects and long term effects like there aren’t with herbs. Some herbs are for the most part suspected to be harmless but many aren’t in-fact there are some extremely scary and dangerous herbs out there. Sometimes a vets judgment could even be off that doesn’t necessarily make them a bad vet just that they made a bad decision. I feel like giving these herbs is just about like giving trifexis or the pro heart injection. Sure vets can give them out but it’s a bad judgment call and we know these things are dangerous so we wouldn’t give them. ALL the science as well as Cody’s reaction shows this is a dangerous herb that shouldn’t be given and it’s a bit frustrating when science gets ignored. I think you are seeing this as an attack but it’s not it is 100% concern. I worry you also might be afraid to go against what she is saying because you got Cody from her. I 100% do not want to argue with you or come off as attacking you I just am trying to make you see that this just isn’t safe.

You’re accusing me of not researching this herb and just going forward and giving it to Cody.

How do you accuse someone of not doing something when you don’t know what that person has done.

I am not going to repeat my response to Bluebells post.


And you are indirectly calling me a liar. You should read all posts before pouncing on ppl accusing them with your blanket statements.


Put your thinking cap on girl, it’s obvious my vet is convinced this herb will help my dog and reason why she has reduced the amount to give him.

I don’t need you to tell me the dangers of this herb. There are pros and cons to every med out there.



In the articles that you read, did you read how many cures using this herb were recorded?

Did you read what this herb was used on and if it helped?



You read the dangers, but don’t look for the good they have done.



Because Cody was a gift to me from my vet, to say I may be afraid to go against my vet with what she prescribes is hilarious to me. You have no idea what kind of a person I am to make such a judgement.



I know of your concern not just for Cody but for all dogs but, my dog, my call. I am his voice and his caretaker. I make the final decisions.



Your opinion is just that, an opinion, that’s what YT is all about, advise, suggestions, opinions.



On this thread you have stated several times about the danger of using Double P ll, and each time I stated I am going to follow my vets newest dosage. Instead of just accepting my decision, you’re there having a hissy fit because I won’t listen to you.


You have to accept what ppl decide for their dogs and not get upset when someone will not follow what you suggest or tell them to do.


As I have already written and ohhhhh how I hate repeating myself. I will try this new method of giving Cody these herbs, if it still causes diarrhea at the very first sighting I stop the meds and contact the office and will not try a lesser dose.


So, let’s just agree to disagree and put this to rest. Nothing anyone says will make me change my mind.


Since you opened the door to criticize my poor judgement, I must say, keeping Callie in her last days, in my opinion it was poor judgement on your part to keep a dog that was in pain just because, but I kept that opinion to myself, you aired your opinion, now I added mine.


I 100% do not want to argue with you or come off as attacking you.

As a PS,

As you said in another post, not all meds work for all dogs. This may or may not work for Cody, I want to know I am very much aware of that.

Ok you want to put the gloves on and attack because that is what you did when I never called you a lier and if I wanted to I would have! Callie had arthritis and was not in severe pain and was on a real daily pain medicine I just added in the CBD oil! You crossed a line by saying that! When you know very little! At least I never gave her toxic herbs! You know very well where you can go! Do not message me ever again or ever request my help or opinion. You just want to bully other people on here and show how hypocritical you are! There is a special place for people like you! You knew by taking a hit using Callie that it would sting and that is a very very evil thing to do!

You crossed a line by bring up my dead dog who was my whole world! You intended to cause upset with that and it was a hateful thing to do! To purposely hit me in a weak spot is something that is a type of evil even I can not understand! You can dislike my opinion and even hate it but you DO NOT bring my dogs into it let alone my passed one! I am so extremely hurt and angry! So uncalled for!

I am so sad to see the pain that has come out of this situation. Each of us can be desperate when we are concerned that our little ones are in pain, or need help. When we ask for help on this forum, I know that we are reaching out for information and/or opinions from others that we trust to have our companion's best interests at heart. Unfortunately, sometimes we all can question the judgement of those who are seeking help if we do not agree with their thinking. Even though this is done out of concern and a true wish to help, it can be taken as an attack at a time when we are most uncertain ourselves. That can lead to unwarranted hurt...and angry reactions.

Unfortunately, I have had times when I felt confused and helpless when seeking answers to treating not only my beloved furkids...but also when I was desperately evaluating treatment models for a potentially life-threatening genetic condition inherited by my children. Many loving people reached out with opinions, all of them worthy of consideration, but my husband and I had to ultimately decide...and own that decision. Luckily, we made the choice which resulted in my children growing into healthy adults (although there were many challenges along the way)...but our choices were questioned
and challenged by those closest to us, and it caused us tremendous pain.

I believe that everyone who comes to this forum truly has the best intentions, and I have been fortunate to make some true connections with several members...and I appreciate all of our interactions! It is my wish that everyone can take a breath and recognize that sometimes our zeal may be misconstrued as unfair criticism... and sometimes our hurt feelings may lead us to wound others. Hopefully we can heal, with time, and refocus on how blessed we are to share the love of our truly remarkable little companions. My heart aches for all of the obvious pain in this thread, and I offer my support to each of you! (((hugs)))

Whether she disagreed with my opinion I never personally attacked her and really was only concerned for Cody but she specifically sought out something that she know would be a gut punch to me and attacked me about Callie. It was extremely uncalled for and evil. You do not bring up something like someone’s deceased dog to purposely hurt someone like that just because you don’t like their opinion. It’s really just evil. But I don’t expect anyone to take my side. I will never forget and it is something that is completely unforgivable.

I am only speaking for myself, but for me, this is not about taking sides. My heart hurts for each of you, and I am not about blaming anyone for what has happened here...I understand the pain that you are feeling. I am only wishing that each of you comes to a peaceful place. :love:

It feels like that. I mean how could you feel bad for someone that would sink that low and do something so evil? Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. If someone disagreed with you and brought up your passed baby to purposely hurt you wouldn’t you be devastated? How could you even began to forgive that? ( not that an apology has been given)I just do not understand why it got taken to that level. How could someone get so angry at a difference of opinion to do that to someone. How it that even ok?