What dog food and why?
 

HI I have a 3 month old Yorkie that has been eating NUTRO small breed puppy food. I still have 3 bags but they are discontinued his food. What is the brand you feed your Yorkie and did you have any ones I should avoid? I'm new to all this! TIA

I keep in a bag of Royal Canin Yorkshire but mine mostly eat “ people food “.
I buy bags of frozen boneless chicken breast strips from the main freezers in the supermarket & cook them up & add a few of the Yorkshire kibble at each meal or a little bit of whatever we’re having, vegetables like carrots, potatoes or rice. They eat so little, compared to my bigger girl, that it’s no problem

The problem with this is if all that human food makes up more then 10% of their diet then it’s unbalanced and they aren’t getting the nutrients they need which can effect their bones, teeth and organs.

I use Royal Canin and trust them significantly. They put a lot of science behind their food. I would make sure whatever you pick you make sure it’s not heavy on peas, lentils and potatoes and not on the list of foods causing heart disease.

My almost eight month old, approximately four pound, pup eats Science Diet Small Paws puppy. I initially bought it because the backyard breeder (long story, but you can read about it in my intro “New to Yorkies” in this forum, if you’re interested) said she was feeding him regular Purina puppy chow, the pieces of which were way too big for him to eat when he only weighed 26 ounces. I had to find something smaller immediately, and Science Diet was what I was able to find with tiny pieces. However, when I told my vet what I was feeding him, she approved.

The only food I’ve heard people recommend against is Blue Buffalo. I have no experience with it, but I’ve read that there are issues with it.

My opinion: RC=Royal Crap in a bag. Read the ingredients. Brewers rice, brown rice, chicken by-product meal, chicken fat, wheat gluten, corn gluten meal, corn, etc. It contains NO MEAT! I can’t believe they charge money for this junk.

Most if not all added nutrients are burnt off during processing of dried dog food (kibble).

I used to believe this, too, until I had a very sick dog who needed this crap in a bag. I don't feed their commercial food but I do feed an RX kibble of theirs in conjunction with Weruva low fat tuna canned. I've become a heck of a lot less judgmental on those NEED this crap in a bag for their dog to, ya know, SURVIVE and live....

I *personally* do believe fresh homecooked food to be the "best" however every dog is different in what they thrive on. And not everyone has the capability to cook a properly balanced meal or afford to do so. Or maybe the dog doesn't thrive on it.

They charge money for it because they have years and years of science and research behind them. Clinical trials. They aren't just buying fancy ingredient lists and then packaging the food as superior even though there are ZERO veterinarians on staff and nothing more than palatability trials with no idea how the food is going to affect dogs long term.

You may think it's crap in a bag but to the dog who can only eat their food to not be sick, it's certainly not. :)

I take offense at that. Just because certain ingredients don’t look good to you as a human don’t mean they are not good for dogs. Royal Canin actually uses science in their formulas. My dogs thrive on Royal Canin! There absolutely is meat in their food. Many Veterinarian nutritionists recommend Royal Canin. Also I would never refer to a food someone else is feeding as crap because that’s just not appropriate or a decent thing to do. You can disagree without doing that.

:thumbup::thumbup: My boys actually are not thrilled with human food. Ollie also will only eat Royal Canin no joke I tried several others and he refused!

I like to share my comments. Bella is 2 years old and I just followed what her breeder fed for about a year and a half was Acana. But then I learned that Acana dog food was on the list of FDA foods that was not good to feed your dog. Although I still have a bag left I decided to let her finish it. I learned from this forum that members suggested and decided to try Royal Canin. I got a free puppy size sample of Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier from a Canadian pet expo event last year and Bella loved it. I recently bought the R.C. Y.T. Adult food because she's an adult now. I was surprised that Bella loved it more than her Acana. I'm also impressed that R.C. have these foods for specific breeds and other health reasons. Although Acana has fresh chicken meal and turkey meal listed as their first ingredients and R.C. does not. I believe the science and nutrition behind R.C. is good. Bella is a finicky eater and as long as she loves it and eats well and poohs well. I'm happy with it. In addition I also cook fresh chicken breast strips with her meals.

One last comment. I agree with LovetoDream, Taylor. Thank you for your help :)

Yup I fed Acana for years. Jackson developed a mild heart murmur - whether that is from the food or not, I do not know.

But their foods have personally affected some Yorkies on here who are dealing with diet-related heart issues.

So yeah I've learned I'd prefer to deal with companies that have Quality Control and Research vs. what I (who is NOT a doctor or nutritionist) think "looks pretty on paper".

I am not judging the people who feed this brand to their dogs, I am judging the company that produces it. Sorry if I offended anyone as that was not my intent. I like rice, my dogs, not so much. Rice flavored with bacon, definitely a yes, for all of us. I thought it was made with higher quality ingredients, it really caught me off guard that it is not. Just thought RC was producing foods using the highest quality ingredients, granted they use smart science to maintain high levels of nutrition,(the list of additives is twice that of actual food) or to appear that way. Great if some or many dogs do well on it, vet once said eating something is better for the dog than eating nothing.

Chicken by-product meal is what is left of a whole chicken after the muscle (meat) is removed, then the carcass is ground to a powder. It is common in many pet foods, cheaper to use than actual meat.

The science and vet involvement is necessary to make it legal, meeting the FDA mins and Max’s required for pet food, could be better than most foods available. Didn’t care to investigate further. Label says ‘natural flavors’, science can make anything taste good.

I recently purchased a product that I could put on cardboard to feed my dogs and it would pass or even surpass FDA requirements for dog food.

Just thought it interesting as I like to know what is in the food I feed my pups and what it’s purpose is. Seems to me they are out to make money, not that anything in their food is actually harmful.

Subject: RC Adult Yorkie food ingredients (Irrelevant as the OP asked about feeding a puppy)

Googled corn gluten meal:
What is the difference between cornmeal and corn gluten meal?
Corn meal and corn gluten meal (CGM) originate from whole kernels of corn, but they're used for very different purposes. The corn meal you use as a coating for food is ground up corn, while corn gluten meal is a byproduct of this process. ... Look for horticultural cornmeal from Home Depot, for instance.Nov 6, 2019


Feeding corn gluten meal can cause your dog or cat to develop severe allergies to corn over an extended amount of time. ... It is much lower in some of the ten essential amino acids dogs need to sustain life than is meat or egg-based protein. Corn gluten meal can raise the protein reported on a food label.

From The Dog food Advisor:

The Two Most Common Problems
with Gluten Ingredients

In any case, here are the two most important things to know about gluten ingredients…

1. Glutens are less nutritionally complete than meat based proteins. They’re low in some of the ten essential amino acids dogs need to sustain life

2. Glutens can raise the protein reported on a food label. So, manufacturers frequently add them to a recipe to make a product look better than it really is

The Bottom Line

Whenever you discover gluten on a dog food ingredients list, you should always question the true meat content of the product.

If you want to keep it science based you might not want to bring a human dentist in as a source. I disagree with you. I believe you are humanizing a dogs digestive system. Just because fresh veggies and meat might be great for us their system is different so by using science they made formulas best for dogs system. They do use high quality ingredients of the ones they use. Food allergies are rare and I personally do not believe feeding a certain thing will cause them to get them. Considering Veterinarian Nutritionist study animal nutrition I feel confident they know what they are doing by recommending Royal Canin. I have seen many of those companies that’s food is supposed to be great and healthy cause many many issues with dogs and not be what they are said to be. I’m guessing you also don’t support the veterinarian diets that save thousand of dogs lives.

The dentist has a doctorate in dental surgery, which is 7-8 years of college study. He majored in chemistry, with a minor in biology, and courses in human nutrition.

I completed 2 years of a 4 year degree program majoring in biology, minor in computer sciences at the University of Maryland. I finished all the required courses, when I complete the elective courses I will graduate.

I began working as a night tech at an 24 hr emergency animal hospital. Worked nights for 3 years. There was an ICU for more critical patients, an Isolation ward for infectious diseases, and the general population ward. I worked alone for 2 years, with a vet being on-call. Triaged incoming pets and had to keep them alive with the vet on the phone till the vet arrived. I took Xrays, drew blood, ran bloodwork in-house, set up for emergency surgeries, monitored anesthesia during surgeries, assisted the vet during surgery, started IV’s, prepared and gave vaccines when appropriate, sutured up any incisions on pets that did not survive a surgery, prepared any samples needing to be sent out to the lab, cleaned, wrapped and sterilized the day’s surgical instruments and packed surgery kits for the next day, gave meds, updated patient charts, performed dentals with vet supervision, restrained animals for whatever was necessary, assisted with neuro exams, behavioral assessments, TPR’s, assisted with Ultrasound exams, electrocardiograph tests, removed ticks and fleas, clipped nails, hair, expressed way too many anal glands, filled prescriptions, wrote up discharge instructions for clients when their pets were discharged and explained/demonstrated any special procedures necessary for their pet’s care, did laundry, cleaned cages, mopped floors, disinfected exam rooms and tables. Then I switched to day shift for the next ten years. OJT involved a VNAC (Veterinary Nutritional Advisor Course) developed by Hill’s Pet Nutrition for training vets and techs on the proper use of their line of Prescription Diets and the medical conditions that would benefit their use and why. There was a 500 question exam at the end. I did not make 100%, I missed 3 questions. So I am basically familiar with the nutritional requirements of dogs, cats, parrots, eagles, owls, seagulls, rabbits, rats, mice, hamsters, guinea pigs, snakes, lizards and turtles, and horses.

Incubators, MRIs, Xrays, ultrasound machines, etc. and many medical procedures and medications have come from human medicine, adjusted and tweaked to work on our pets. Human IV fluids are still being used. Animals are currently being used to test stem cell therapies, cancer treatments, and many other things that could prove beneficial and be applicable to human medicine, and vice versa.

Just saying...

I used to believe the same as you so I understand where you are coming from. But first of all, dogfoodadvisor is NOT a reputable source. They judge solely on ingredients. Some foods that they list as "5 star" have been recalled for vitamin D toxicity among other recalls yet he still calls them 5 star. He also has no medical license related to animals whatsoever. He is a human dentist which is fine and dandy but he has no more knowledge on pet food than any other layman. Not to mention, he is 100% financially motivated.

Glutens don't raise the protein in food anymore than the legumes, beans, peas used in supposed "higher quality" brands. All kibble has to have a starch of some sort to bind the kibble together. To me I am not sure how pea protein is any better than corn gluten.

When corn has been milled properly, it is an excellent source of nutrients that are easily digested and absorbed by dogs. For dogs that maybe have stomach issues Corn is also rich in the amino acids that support skin and bladder health, as well as antioxidants that support general health. It is also a great source of vitamins A, E and the B-Group, as well as zinc and manganese – all of which are essential for healthy skin.

Dogs are omnivores, not carnivores. While meat IS important, they can thrive on plant proteins as well. It wouldn't be MY first choice however some dogs have no choice. I know a few dogs who literally cannot eat meat proteins (a lot of dogs with IBD have to be on hydrolyzed foods that derive their protein from soy or other sources).

As for by products, many by products are essentially what raw feeders give their dogs (hearts, livers, lungs, etc). RC specifically tells you where their by-products are derived from, unlike some brands.

The biggest thing to me (now) is the HOW the ingredients are processed, where they are sourced, what the quality control is at the dog plant, if there are veterinarians on staff, who is formulating the foods.

I'm not by any mean saying Royal Canin is the end all be all. There are PLENTY of options out there for every dog. I feed the dog that is front of me - not what I think looks best on paper. And every dog will thrive on something different.

I think that is awesome - you have more experience in the animal medical field than I do. I certainly don't claim to know more than a vet or a veterinary nutritionist.

Also I wanted to add - do I believe vets get the BEST training on nutrition overall? No. But do I think they are "paid off" or "make tons of money" for promoting foods like Hills, RC or Purina? Also a big nope. That's a huge misconception. I know personally when I worked front desk at a clinic, most of the vets hated having to keep food in stock. And I've heard this from many of my friends who are vet techs etc. It was more of a pain than a money maker. But they do it for the clients who NEED it. The "Coolest" things they get from them is like pens and highlighters - freebie gifts LMAO.

Most vets are going to suggest these brands because they are well researched and have (for the most part) good quality control. Vets don't have time to thoroughly research every single brand out there that exists. So what happens if a vet highly recommends Acana and then the dog ends up in heart failure, who is the owner going to blame? The vet will.... for recommending the food. They tend to go with what "works" and has through many years since those are "safe". Overall, if my pet has a specific issue, I would usually prefer to go to a veterinary nutritionist, someone who specializes in that field. The majority of vets I've been to have never ever suggested a food for us (and I've been to quite a few thru the 11 years I've had Jackson and other family pets). I think there was maybe 1 that mentioned it. But I've never walked into a vets room and had them shove any food down my face. Only when Jackson had his stomach issues was one recommended to me.

I think doing your own research IS a good thing. And I don't blindly follow ANY one vet. I think we are definitely our best advocates for our dog and know them best. But I also think the misconceptions that have come about over the last few years have caused issues and confusion for pet owners more than anything. My vet is super cool regarding food. He knows, after everything we dealt with with Jackson's issues, he was like "I'm happy for you to find anything that works and I don't mind taking a look at it".

I’m not sure what you are just saying except listing your experience which is great but not really on topic. I am also not coming into this a just a pet owner. I have taken a vet assistant/ tech classes passed all parts very well. I have shadowed and helped at my vets office. The techs at my vets office as well as my vet feel I’m very educated and often beg me to come work for them. Sadly my health has to come first. Obviously my experience at this time of my life is less then yours but I’m certainly not an idiot. I have put my experience and education to use in picking the food I have chosen and I feel it’s a great choice. Just because I feel differently then you doesn’t mean I’m stupid and that there is not science backing my choices. I don’t think you realize the kind of tone you set by calling Royal Canin crap. I’m going to be honest I am still very upset about that and sure maybe even on a personal level. Dog food advisor is not a good resource not matter his education you listed. Just because someone might be well educated in one thing doesn’t make them well educated in another thing or even multiple things.

Hi and welcome to YT! :)

Sorry that I ruined your thread. I would delete my previous posts but I am not allowed. I have seen the light! I am not a vet nor an animal nutritionist, so totally unqualified to answer your question. My advice is to ask your vet. A thorough health check would help to insure your pup is in good health, and could rule out any underlying health or development issues, which may require special dietary considerations if found. My dogs are adults so whatever I am feeding would be totally inappropriate for your puppy.

This is the label I was looking at, from a photo of a bag of Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier Adult dry food on the chewy.com website:

Attachment 413519

This food is for adult Yorkies with no medical problems.

The problem that most stands out to me and my untrained mind is that there are around 6-7 ingredients on this label that are actually food, like what can be found in a grocery store, the rest are additives, meaning something that is added to the actual food, for whatever reason. The fact that their (RC) additive list is so much longer than the food list tells me that maybe if they used different food items they wouldn’t have to add so many additives. I don’t know, just using my common sense here.

There are certain things that I look for when I shop for me and/or my dogs. I tend to purchase foods that can provide the nutrients we need In the most natural form available, as in occurs by nature without any additives, if possible. I try to avoid foods with preservatives, when possible.

I choose products with natural additives over synthetic or man-made. I do this because our bodies cannot always use nor process synthetic additives. I believe this is called ‘bioavailability’ and is an important factor I look for when shopping.

Another thing I look at is protein. I believe that meat and eggs supply the closest ratio of amino acids that best matches what my body and my dogs’s bodies need. Plant proteins I think contain the same amino acids but in a different ratio. To end up with a more complete array of amino acids that our bodies need, I have to add proteins by eating different plants, like a salad mix.

Once a dog food meets my requirements, then I look at other factors, like where and how the food is made and who makes it, etc. Tufts University recommends not looking at the ingredients, you can go to their website to get more info and some free tools to use to help you decide.

If you ask your vet for recommendations, and he/she won’t tell you, ask what they feed their dog(s).

Forgot to add...
 

I also feed from 3 different dog foods at one time. Different manufacturers, different proteins. My reasoning behind this is that if one food is deficient in something, hopefully the other two aren’t deficient in the same thing. Law of averages... lol!

The added stuff is the same as if you were to home cook you have to buy the added supplements because just the food does not give the dog what they need. That is the science behind the food. That is stuff the dogs need and what makes it a great food because they have studied and everything else to make sure the dogs are getting what they need. Many of those dog foods that you are talking about that are what you think looks better on the ingredients label are foods that are on the list of foods causing heart disease, have multiple lawsuits against them for lying about what is in their food, have terrible quality control, have no vets on staff, and have no science behind them. I understand that food is a touchy subject with people and when I was younger I felt the same way you did but I took my classes and did my own research and things started to shift. I saw how these prescription foods saved dogs lives and I have seen dogs thrive including mine on their non prescription food. At the end of the day no matter what you think is the best food not all dogs are going thrive on that or even eat it. Just like us humans don’t thrive on just one type of diet neither do dogs. I wish my dogs would eat home cooked food but my boys really don’t like human food and Callie didn’t take well to it years ago when I tried. Last fall I found my dogs were not reacting well to the soy in Callie’s prescription food so I had to find something else and tried many foods and Ollie absolutely won’t eat any other food besides Royal Canin no joke either. They all eat Royal Canin Sensitive digestion small breed and they all love it and are thriving. One size doesn’t fit all.

Dr. Harvey's Veg-To-Bowl Fine Ground
 

I am feeding Dr. Harvey's Veg-to-Bowl Fine Ground for the reasons below (copied from their website):

Veg-To-Bowl Fine Ground

Dehydrated Vegetable Pre-Mix for Dogs
Made in the USA-Grain-free formula
Makes Home Made food Prep easy-Great for picky eaters
Holistic Formula with No Synthetic Ingredients
No Chemicals, preservatives or dyes
Allows complete control of quantity and quality of protein

When you open the bag you see and smell the goodness of vegetables. I have been busy cooking and dehydrating protein (chicken, beef, pork, and turkey) to make providing home prepared meals easy peasy. The prepared meals smell like a stew/soup with the notes of the protein used. Just meaure out the pre-mix, add protein and oil and rehydrate. My two girls never get bored and even Ms. Picky Pants Lacie gets excited about mealtimes.

The picture below of the bag contents just doesn't do the product justice.

The bolded words above are the answer to it all.

My advice to all is to ask the trained minds and let me add that The Dog Food Advisor is NOT a trained mind in animal nutrition. He is a human dentist. I don 't go to my dentist for anything but MY teeth.

You want to know what to feed your pups, ask your vet. I am sick of the hoopla about them not knowing what is good and the ridiculous claims they get kickbacks for referring some foods. If I thought my vet made her living selling things like dog food, I would not be going to her for vet advice and care for my beloved pups.

You can also get wonderful information and advice here: www.petdiets.com Take a moment to read the qualifications of the people on that website and THEN compare them to those of the person who runs the dog food advisor and other amateur web sites about dog food.

BTW: I find it offensive that anyone would refer to any dog food as "crap in a bag". You can feed what you want, but if you are not a trained mind, you should not be saying such things. There are many people who believe everything they read and dogs could suffer from bad advice.

Okay... NOT Royal Crap... Ladyjane, I apologized for making that comment early on in this thread.

I feed dog food developed by a vet that meets AFFCO standards, except for 2 base mixes I buy that don’t meet the standard until I add whatever protein I want, then they too are good, standard wise. I also feed two different kinds of freeze dried raw, for days when I am lazy and don’t feel up to cooking or to add variety or I can use it as the protein to the foods I first mentioned. About freeze dried raw, it is not just meat, the diets I bought are also AFFCO approved and contain ingredients other than meat.

To the OP: Nutro is on the FDA list of foods that may cause heart problems.
In my opinion, as you are feeding a puppy, I would throw the rest away and feed something not on the fda list. I tried to copy the list here but it seems my cut and paste skills are also lacking today, lol.

Where can I check for foods that have been recalled?

Adding again
 

I also add a supplement containing prebiotics, probiotics, and digestive enzymes. I think this addition is even more important than any food I feed. Check with your vet.

I missed where you apologized about the crap statement.

I remain bothered by people advising others to read the ingredient labels.
That has long been a "thing" the DFA pushed and, again, he is a human dentist.

To the OP: I urge you to ask your vet about what to feed your puppy. Other than saying he/she definitely needs puppy food, I would be hard pressed to tell you what to feed.

As for me: my pups (other than the ones who require RX foods) have been on Hill's Science Diet foods since about 2011 and they are thriving on it. They are currently on Hills Small Paws kibble.

Adding label from RC YT Adult dry food
 

Honestly, I believe that the vast majority of YTers want desperately to feed their furkids the best quality of food they can afford. That food option may be different for each of us, but that doesn’t mean that ONE is right and everyone else is wrong. What it means is that all dog owners have the opportunity and obligation to research the food we are feeding to determine what is right for our furkids.

It is hard to know who to turn to for information. Sadly, most veterinarians don’t get much in the way of specific training in canine nutrition in vet school. Then there is the AAFCO – all it takes is a quick peek at their website to realize that they aren’t dog food “gods” either. Here’s a quote from their website: “AAFCO does not have the authority to inspect, approve or regulate dog food (or any other pet food). Although members represent state and federal regulatory agencies like the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), AAFCO itself does not regulate the pet food industry”.

I don’t have an answer for anyone but myself and my girls. Right now they are thriving on the food I have chosen to feed them. At some point in time that may change, but for now they are healthy, happy and love their meals.

I really like the standard of questions provided by WSAVA. I won't feed a food if they cannot or will not answer these questions in great detail.

https://wsava.org/wp-content/uploads...r-your-Pet.pdf