Losing trust in your dogs vet

[airplane]

Have any of you lost trust in your dogs vet? I feel as though I have. I just want to share a few things and get your guys opinion on it. I’m just struggling to figure out who to trust and how to make a judgment on the competence of a vet.

I received in the mail one of those cards saying your dog is due for vaccination. Théo is my only dog left after losing Bijou and Maezie. I know people have mentioned titer testing before, and a while back I had a conversation with the vet about it and she made it quite clear that there’s no research showing at such and such a level on the titer test means protection and that she recommends a certain schedule of vaccination and that she sees the titer test as being quite useless. Meanwhile the other day I read an article written by a vet where he says that once there’s any measurable titer that there’s active immunity and it lasts for life, and that measures of titers naturally go up and down depending on certain factors but it doesn’t mean there’s a lack of protection and that you can now say no to any more vaccines.

So it’s difficult for me to know who to trust when different vets have different opinions. I’m sure if I went to all the vets in town I might find one who has the same opinion as the vet who wrote the article.

I called my vet to ask questions about Maezie’s necropsy report because I’ve been reading a lot of research on anaphylactic shock in dogs and I just wanted to clarify some things with her. And surprise surprise, she now had a different interpretation about the hemorrhages that were on Maezie’s pancreas. Initially the vet was talking about issues processing fats and there were thoughts of pancreatitis. I knew Maezie was not symptomatic of anything like that and I know the research definitely pointed towards the anaphylaxis as being a possible cause of those hemorrhages. And now the vet told me that she reviewed Maezie’s bloodwork and the literature and now believes that those hemorrhages were indeed caused by the anaphylactic reaction. I guess maybe that’s perhaps an indication of how severe the reaction was when she died under anesthesia.

I’m upset that I was told one thing and then later told something else. I expect my vet to be an expert and to tell me the correct information. And I’m upset with the format of the necropsy report that came from the University of Saskatchewan. There’s interpretation involved to make sense of it. Apparently that’s common. But the way some parts of the report were written and put together seems to me like a cookie cutter approach where they probably copy and paste much of it off a previous document. Not my vets fault but it just adds to my frustration.

The last thing that really makes me feel like I’ve lost trust is that the vet never recognized what happened to Maezie as being an anaphylactic reaction. That’s why I agreed to a necropsy because I hate grey areas in life. I want answers. And I now know that all the circumstances of what happened completely pointed towards anaphylaxis and anaphylactic shock as what caused Maezie’s death. I don’t believe a necropsy was needed to figure that out. And with not recognizing it, how much time are you going to lose in terms of making the right decision and making it in a timely fashion for treatment?

The vet administered atropine and epinephrine, but obviously the epinephrine didn’t get to Maezie soon enough. And when she was brought to me, there was diarrhea that I could smell even though she was in a blanket so I couldn’t see it. And I remember thinking her face looked puffy to me. Those things and lots of other things pointed towards anaphylaxis. I don’t know. Apparently Maezie was in serious trouble before even being hooked up to the anesthesia machine. I just hate to think about what they did to her body for the necropsy when the answer of anaphylaxis, at least in my mind, could’ve easily have been given to me without a necropsy being needed.

I’ve already decided that I don’t think I could even bear to go back to that clinic after what happened to Maezie there. So I am looking for a new main vet for Théo. And I just really don’t know how to decide which vet is the right vet for me and Théo. How do you come to a decision that a certain vet is competent and trustworthy when looking for a new vet? Of course I’ll always get second opinions if something seems wrong, but I’d like my main vet to be a really good one.

[lilgidget]

I'm so sorry all this has happened to you. I'm sure there's someone on this Board who can help you in some way.

[Lovetodream88]

Your vet is 100% right about titers. The research is still not there. It’s a terrible thing that happened and if you feel that you can’t trust your vet now then maybe it’s time to try another. I have not lost a dog yet and hopefully never will under for a procedure but I’m sure it would make me question things.

[matese]

Who can we trust with the care and well being of our babies but our veterinarians, if there is any doubt in your mind go with your gut feeling and find another one. I has been suggested here on YT to find a veterinarian that is well familiar with the breed.

[maxdog]

I am fortunate that I feel we have found and excellent vet to take care of our babies. I used to get aggravated when we first started going to see her because it seemed like she was always running late. But then when we ran into some health issues with Max and Sasha we realized why. She took the time to give us all the info we need and answer any questions we had. She genuinely cares about our babies. She never rushed us out because she had to get to the next appointment.

I would suggest that you find someone you trust. Someone who will listen to you. Read reviews. Talk to friends who also have pets. All vets may have to go through the same training but not all vets are the same.

[Bonbons Jean]

Your little darling sounds pretty complex. Did you ask the vet why the different interpretation? It might be because she did more research and found the latest and most up to date information on diagnosing what the problem actually is. All medical professionals know that they must constantly take classes, read scientific journals, and keep learning to stay up to date with the research that is going on. I would trust a vet who changed her diagnosis and treatment based on recent research.

[airplane]

Originally Posted by Bonbons Jean

Your little darling sounds pretty complex. Did you ask the vet why the different interpretation? It might be because she did more research and found the latest and most up to date information on diagnosing what the problem actually is. All medical professionals know that they must constantly take classes, read scientific journals, and keep learning to stay up to date with the research that is going on. I would trust a vet who changed her diagnosis and treatment based on recent research.

The vet gave the different interpretation after I asked her. She didn’t willingly and openly offer it to me. After Maezie died I read tons of research articles about dogs experiencing anaphylaxis and anaphylactic shock. The research suggests that organs can be affected - typically with dogs the liver and intestines I believe. But I figured maybe it would be possible that her pancreas to be affected and have the hemorrhages because of the anaphylactic reaction. Maezie’s liver and intestines didn’t show anything out of the norm. So it was just an idea I had since I knew anaphylaxis was such a bizarre thing to happen and can kinda be a little bit tricky in some circumstances about how it affects the internal organs of the body, plus I knew she did not show any symptoms related to pancreatic problems or anything at all. So I just simply asked her if the hemorrhages to her pancreas could have been caused by the anaphylaxis. Even in the necropsy report it mentioned shock as a possible causative factor that could affect blood flow to the pancreas. It didn’t specify anaphylactic shock, but I thought maybe. And she quickly said that yes she believes it’s very likely the case because she went over Maezie’s bloodwork and reviewed the literature and now believes that hemorrhages to the pancreas were due to the anaphylaxis.

The whole idea of diagnosis and treatment is beyond the fact because Maezie has died. She died within just a number of seconds after being given propofol when going under anesthesia for her dental. The vet told me that propofol is believed to be the drug that caused the anaphylactic reaction because Maezie was completely fine before with the other drugs (they give multiple drugs when inducing anesthesia), but very soon after being given propofol is when Maezie got into trouble.

I’m going to attach Maezie’s necropsy report to this post because maybe somebody here might be able to have some good insight into it. There’s 2 pages to it. It does need interpretation to make sense of it. To me, especially when you consider the circumstances of how Maezie died, it does point towards anaphylaxis. And like I mentioned I believe a necropsy shouldn’t have been needed to know it was anaphylaxis that caused her death. That’s my big problem with my vet. She didn’t recognize anaphylaxis and I believe she should have. Just seeing her looking kinda poofy in the face and smelling the diarrhea plus how quickly it happened and when it happened right after being given propofol, I’ll never forgive my vet for not recognizing anaphylaxis. I even asked my vet about a differential diagnosis and the probability of something else, and the response was basically very very unlikely anything else other than anaphylaxis.

Everything about the circumstances point towards anaphylaxis. As a so-called scientist and veterinarian, it’s her job to recognize that. A lay person like myself reading research articles, and easily understanding how it all points to anaphylactic shock as what caused her death, to me that’s unacceptable that my vet didn’t recognize it and pushed me towards having a necropsy done as though it was some sort of medical mystery. And of course I want answers so I agreed.

If the circumstances were maybe a little bit different I’d probably take legal action against her. I would. I believe she’s incompetent as a veterinarian. That’s the bottom line. She’s proven to me that she can’t recognize anaphylaxis when it happens right in front of her, and for me to find out how clear cut it was, it’s completely unacceptable. I believe anyone with just a little bit of training in veterinary medicine, and who also has the ability to think critically and has a sense of problem solving, would easily have figured out anaphylaxis as what caused Maezie’s death without acting dumbfounded and acting like it’s a mystery where a necropsy should be done so we can solve the mystery. That’s what I believe.

[airplane]

Hopefully this works. Like in my last post, I said I'd attach Maezie's necropsy report. Pages 1 and 2. Maybe somebody can make some good sense out of it. Y'know, I could kinda picture my vet looking at the report, probably trying to problem solve. And what's that famous quote from Sherlock Holmes? Is it "You eliminate all that it possibly could be, and what's left, no matter how improbable or unlikely, must be the answer". That's a very cute method of problem solving, but I don't think anything like that was needed in Maezie's case. Who knows. But after the necropsy my vet called and had the conclusion and explained anaphylaxis and how the blood pressure rapidly drops and the heart can stop beating.

I miss Maezie so much. And its so hard that she was so young when she died and that it happened this way. It's been almost two months and I'm still just completely shattered. Turned my life and happiness upside down in an instant. I'm so close to my dogs, maybe too close, but I love dogs. I think they make life awesome.

[107barney]

I’m not a vet but it seems to me that your dog suffered a very unfortunate fluke here. Propofol is very safe. The dog was given atropine and epinephrine. The vet seems to have done was appropriate for a HR stopping and for anaphylaxis. A member here has a dog who had anaphylaxis to a distemper parvo vaccine and a similar situation happened where the dog could not be resuscitated with epinephrine.

I’m sorry for your loss. Making sense of death isn’t easy, and especially when it is sudden and unexpected. We look for evidence as a way to calm our need for answers, but in life, sometimes there are none. I hope in time you have peace. I would need another vet, not because she did something wrong, but I would need to just start over.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I’m not a vet but it seems to me that your dog suffered a very unfortunate fluke here. Propofol is very safe. The dog was given atropine and epinephrine. The vet seems to have done was appropriate for a HR stopping and for anaphylaxis. A member here has a dog who had anaphylaxis to a distemper parvo vaccine and a similar situation happened where the dog could not be resuscitated with epinephrine.

I’m sorry for your loss. Making sense of death isn’t easy, and especially when it is sudden and unexpected. We look for evidence as a way to calm our need for answers, but in life, sometimes there are none. I hope in time you have peace. I would need another vet, not because she did something wrong, but I would need to just start over.

I agree with this.

And my heart hurts for you so much. I can't imagine.

For what it's worth, we've gone to multiple different vets in Jackson's life... I have no problem switching until I find one that I trust wholeheartedly.

I was super disappointed because we had a vet we found a few years ago that I was THRILLED with... I mean she was seriously awesome. We would sit on the floor with Jackson together to make him more comfortable during appts and she would talk to me like we were having a conversation but was also very knowledgable and middle ground regarding vaccines, yada yada. Just balanced. I had finally found THE ONE and she LEFT. I was sooo sad. She went on to do doggie hospice. I keep in touch through FB now.

The new vet who took her place at that facility... I just was not that impressed with.

So I found another facility. I did some more googling and research, found that I prefer AAHA accredited hospitals for their extra diligence that they have to adhere to.

don't be afraid to be an advocate for your dog. Respect your vet and know they went to school a lot longer than we did and know a lot more but also don't be afraid to try to find one you fully trust and are satisfied with.

[airplane]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I’m not a vet but it seems to me that your dog suffered a very unfortunate fluke here. Propofol is very safe. The dog was given atropine and epinephrine. The vet seems to have done was appropriate for a HR stopping and for anaphylaxis. A member here has a dog who had anaphylaxis to a distemper parvo vaccine and a similar situation happened where the dog could not be resuscitated with epinephrine.

I’m sorry for your loss. Making sense of death isn’t easy, and especially when it is sudden and unexpected. We look for evidence as a way to calm our need for answers, but in life, sometimes there are none. I hope in time you have peace. I would need another vet, not because she did something wrong, but I would need to just start over.

Thank you. And, yes, I do agree it’s a fluke. Some of the estimates of the odds put it as something that’s very very rare.

I know I’ve used strong words of criticism and disappointment with the vet. But I’m still trying to wrap my head around the list of factors that suggest anaphylactic reaction:
• tongue turning blue
• diarrhea
• a puffy look to her face (first thing I noticed when I saw her. But I’ve seen her everyday for 3 years, so maybe I have a better eye for that. I don’t know. To me it was quite noticeable)
• how quickly it happened
• when it happened right after being given propofol
• the fact she had previous exposures to that drug for her spay and previous dentals (previous exposures is the big factor for sensitization to develop and an anaphylactic reaction to occur)

These things individually suggest an anaphylactic reaction, and when taken all together it completely points towards that. At least that’s my understanding of all the research articles I’ve read. So that’s why I have no problem speaking so harshly about the vet.

I find it very distressing to think that a necropsy probably wasn’t needed to get the right answer. And my vet clearly failed with that. Thinking about it, perhaps she had a suspicion but refused to tell me when I pressured her to tell me her best guess of what she thought happened. Or she actually completely failed to recognize all the clues of a severe anaphylactic reaction. Either way, I think it’s wrong and that’s why I have lost trust in her and question her abilities as a vet. Based on her stomping her foot on the ground and saying “I don’t know”, I’m inclined to think she completely missed recognizing all the clues.

I hope in the future I can find a new vet that I’ll be able to have trust in. But this whole experience has made me very cautious and kinda reluctant to give my trust to any vet.