Knowingly breeding with LP
 

I am in a bit of a situation and I am not sure how to move forward.

My puppy who is 7 months was recently diagnosed with luxating patella. I was shocked and a bit unnerved but I just pushed forward. I was mainly just praying that it wasn't going to break my bank.

I informed the breeder because I suspected that she would want to know since the individual is a show breeder and I gathered their information from the AKC website to avoid any issues with a less than stellar breeder.

I received an email where the breeder stated that all of their dogs have LP grades 1-2 and they made this choice due to wanting to maintain the best show quality dogs and it was a conscious choice.

I can't say that I am completely disgusted but I feel a bit duped. We had a discussion around genetic defects and they never mentioned this at all. I would not have purchased if I had known that this was a known issue. I completely understand that there are certain things that go along with toy breeds but it is my understanding from research that it is completely genetic and largely recessive.

I approached this situation just wanting to make them aware and it appears that I was the only one not aware. My contract protects against life threatening defects only but I guess pain and arthritis aren't life threatening:confused::(

I'm going to get it fixed but I am not sure where to go from here


*He is showing signs of it. Which is why I took him to the vet to just ease my nerves that he had not hurt himself or was bit by something*

Wow! I'd be so ticked off! That they knowingly withheld the info that they *purposely bred* grade 1-2 LP is just shocking to me, and disgusting.

What state did you purchase the pup in, and what is that state's Puppy Lemon Laws...?

Is the breeder going to pay for the surgery if/when needed...?

Learning everything the hard way
 

I have been living such a sheltered life before I got my Babies 13 years ago I thought AKC meant that they would be absolutely safe much too my demise after I purchased my dog I learned that that at that time in Topeka Kansas that was so not the case , AT the time I figured it outwas really too late because I was so enamored with my boy it was too late to turn back! scary thought this woman is a REGISTERED NURSE smart enough to get around inspections.and DNA testing . I still am very Leary of supposed AKC breeders just because my actual registration papers for Mack were stolen that's the kind of thing I just put in files 13 years ago, and when I recently moved realized missing from files. Just average joe that didn't know any better!😡

Yeah I was told that most breeders dogs have LP and they will breed dogs with it. Make sure you use a board certified orthopedic surgeon do not use your regular vet for this. Also it's a rough surgery and a rough recovery. They have to stay on crate rest for at least 8 weeks.

Breeding a dog with known defects is, in my opinion, not only disgusting but fraud. There is a breeder/show dog person I know who breeds cardiomeglia into her dogs to get the coat and show gait. Beautiful dogs, but don't live long.

What is the purpose😡 A few ribbons - probably the show reputation and the $$ she makes selling pups!

This is one of the reasons the YTCA is now pushing for the DNA testing. Today, I would not buy a dog without it. It is not the all in all, but it is a step forward. And it is not too expensive. Of course the best is an honest breeder!

AKC just means their pure bred you really have to do your research these days. Hard to find a reputable breeder.

I purchased the puppy in TN. I'm not sure they are. I get the impression that they don't think it's a big deal. I'll admit that after the discussion I've just been kind of quiet. I'm waiting to chose my words carefully.

I'll look up lemon law stuff. Thank you.

I did get lucky and picked a vet that is an orthopedic surgeon. They perform them regularly. I'm just scared because I lost a cat to a neuter years ago and now I am in a bundle of nerves about any surgery.

I did check the breeder against search results here and the bbb.

Wow! What a horrible breeder. I can't believe people knowingly breed like that. I don't understand the argument of maintaining best show quality dogs. There are show quality dogs who are very healthy and produce healthy puppies. So why doesn't she go that route. It may be more work and she may need new breeding stock and all that, but it seems to me instead that the breeder just took the easy way out of maintaining show quality dogs. Her dogs may be very beautiful but it just doesn't seem ethical to me at all to knowingly breed a health issue. I just don't get it. I probably would've sent her the meanest nastiest email ever! Lol. And I'd probably take it further than that too. I just don't like breeders who don't have a sense of ethics and who don't put health first when it comes to breeding.

I TOTALLY AGREE! It has to do with money, greed and ignorance. That breeder is in denial and does not want anyone to tell her she does not know everything there is to know. She is resistant to the whole DNA testing thing, especially since the cardiac issues has arisen and been spread around.

YTCA decisions are going to push her though and she does not like that since she wants to be a player in that organization. But people are getting smarter and better educated and when those who have such blind faith in her get educated it will change.

Funny, since the whole DNA thing came to be, it is not expensive and, of course not perfect, but the better breeders really like it because they can give their buyer's better assurance of health.

Are they a board certified orthopedic surgeon? Get pre op blood work.

You would be surprised. Breed standards have really messed up so many breeds. There are German Shepard that win shows and can hardly walk. They have done terrible things to the breeds that have the squashed like faces. Sometime the standard and show breeding has really messed some dogs up.

Infuriating! The translation of this statement is: "I purchased breeding dogs and I didn't want to lose money or spend more money to eliminate them from my breeding program when I discovered they have LP."

My boys are full brothers from a champion sire. No LP in their lines.

I wish the conformation judges would enforce the rules and disqualify dogs with faults as serious as LP. This wouldn't stop non-exhibitors from breeding dogs with LP, but it would be a start.

OK, I'm now pulling my hair out. I have a l-o-n-g history with this issue. My personal feeling is that any breeder who perpetuates this should not EVER be permitted to register pups......EVER! :mad::mad:

Who is the breeder?

I know show breeders are not all ethical, I get that....but are you serious about that, above...? Bc if so, whoa, then those judges and that entire community should be ashamed of themselves...letting it get to *that* point, ya know...?

The same nonsense happens in the horse "industry". There was a point where little feet were the in thing. Consequently. the poor horses were going lame very early in their careers. Now the trend is a hanging head and the horses no longer can move naturally, and you are absolutely right, if these trends were not pinned well in shows, this would not happen.
Breed little dogs, get BIG problems.
It's all about $$$$ not function. :thumbdown

Yep. I wish I knew where that article went so I could share it. Don't you remember like a year ago we were talking about reputable breeders and several people said reputable breeders breed Yorkie's with a grade 1 or 2 LP? I like was freaking out.

Unfortunately the judges only compared to the standard for the breed . They don't check health, patellar, cataracts, livers or cardiac issues. That is the breeder that should be setting those health standards. Breeders who give good health guarantees are doing that! And, I think more and more are doing that.

We can hope to educate buyers to ask for DNA results, BATS, cataracts and patella assessments from the breeders and a health guarantee/ agreement.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Yes, they breed GSDs to walk on lower parts of the leg that are not meant to be walked on.

We took care of our neighbor's German Shepherd whenever they traveled. I always thought something was wrong with the dog, the way she walked, the position of her rear end and tail. I was informed that she was show quality and they were proud.

Then another neighbor moved in with 2 GSDs that were the same away. That is when I learned about the horrifying things being done to the breed.

I understand that many health issues can only be confirmed/weeded out through testing, but the judges should be able to feel and see bad LP during exhibitions. They should see it in the gait and feel it when they inspect the dog, I would think.

I think it's starting to become almost rare to have a yorkie without LP.

This is one of the reasons I get mad at the show world.

Agreed. I do not understand how this became the desired look for a German Shepherd, butt and tail downward, and practically walking on their back knees:

Attachment 411442

What a shame GS is my favorite large breed, it is so sad to see this happening to them as they have always stood so majestic and proud

It's not just them. Other dog breeds are suffering too. People brush this under the rug but it is a serious issues. We fight for dog rights as far as dog fighting, breeding, puppy mills and abuse but we don't fight for what some of these standards are doing to them.

Folks who are interested in selling pups seem to think a 1-2 luxation is acceptable for a lap sitting dog! Not the case for folks who plan on an active dog such as agility, fly ball etc. So wondering how much has to do with expectations of the dog/breed and of course the buyer!

This is sad to read. I'm here to give you hope! :) My pup has grade 3/4 LP in both knees. We have never required surgery. If the condition allows it, and you have an amazing vet your pup can lead a very normal life. There are modifications that you can do to help, like monitor diet, limit treats to almost nothing, add ramps or stairs to furniture you wish your pup to access, or do what I do, and buy a low bed if you sleep with your pup. I made the change years ago, and can't say I feel a big difference anymore. And exercise!! Nothing rigorous like agility, but walks, and romps in the grass are allowed. Kaji was my running buddy for years until we moved to a very hilly area.

Talk to your vet and see if your pup's condition will allow it. Every vet Kaji's had has agreed that yes, Kaji's knees slip, but he is lean, and the muscles in his legs are strong enough to compensate. There is no need for surgery at this moment, especially when knee slippage can occur even after surgery.

If your pup is in pain, and unable to walk, then yes, seek an orthopedic vet to increase your chances of a great outcome.

I never knew much about the German Shepherd before and when I saw this dog for the first time some years ago, I couldn't help thinking what the heck was wrong with its legs!! :eek: I felt sorry for him... and then after seeing a few more, then realized it was normal. Sigh...very sad.

This is what I assumed too. I guess everything is changing though. People with good ethics in this industry is becoming so hard to come by!

To Ms2Mrs, I'm so sorry to hear about this experience! I would be so mad!! They are the exact reason why we've all become so skeptical and paranoid about what is a responsible breeder.

When I first contacted my breeder, I had the longest list of questions. I was embarrassed, but still powered through with each and every question. LP was one of them. My breeder told me that they've only had occasional level one's, and that they wouldn't breed those. It sucks that you miss one question, and then your puppy's health is in jeopardy. It really sucks. :(

I hope others can give you comfort in LP surgeries. I've read that many recover well...

I was a former member of Yorkietalk before some unfortunate incident but it taught me so much about breeding and what to look for and what to stay away from when I was a newbie.

Nevertheless, I always check breeders by searching these forums and I would like to have someone else avoid this incident if they could. I didn't want to release the breeder's name because I was hoping that the resolution would be more favorable to her. I never expected this from an AKC breeder but the complete lack of remorse or sense of wrong doing is just disgusting.


My breeder was Leslie Roden of Leslie Roden. Please understand that if you go with this lady who stated that she KNOWINGLY breeds in her stock that have LP of grades 1 or 2 for a look. She does not plan to stop and will not stop, so you are guaranteeing yourself additional causes for concern.


I have read up on it. I have an amazing vet and I'll just try to hold off the surgery for as long as I can.

I'm just disappointed. Largely in myself as well. I thought I was avoiding the trapping of a backyard breeder by being an AKC snob but I should have done more.


Thank you all so much for the tips and suggestions. I had to get a second opinion and see what the breeder wanted to do but she doesn't care and told me that he is limping from some injury she thinks he has had.

If he is activly limping you need to have it checked out by an orthopedic specialist because that means he is in pain.