Breeder Shaming
 

Has anyone experienced or observed breeder shaming? I absolutely support rescues, but with the amount of comments I have observed on facebook I am scared to let anyone know my baby isn't a rescue. These posts mainly call for breeders to stop breeding. I know responsible breeders are not the problem, irresponsible breeders/owners and puppy mills are. I was just wondering how wide spread this is? Do any of you observe this as well?


To add to that, does anyone receive mean comments about small breeds? I get it all the time and it drives me crazy because little dogs are just as awesome. We had a lab once and she was a really fun dog but we just didn't have the space for her to get the exercise she needed. Ever since we've had small dogs and they have suited the whole family very well.

I am a breeder and I still support adoption of rescues! I personally have rescued 3 dogs in my lifetime, and all three were disasters....the dogs were schizophrenic and obviously (not their fault, were psychological screw ups! One was a biter if he didnt want to fool with you....sorry, but I am pack leader and dont allow any of my dogs to bite and attack me! One was a hider....this dog would hide for days on end....totally unsocialized, could not and would not deal with me or my son, and the only way I even knew he was still in the house, was he pooped on his paper and he would come out at night and eat. I had him almost a year, he never got any better at all, and I finally let a tech at my vet office have him. The third little dog was a lunatic, barking and yelping incessantly....nothing was ever diagnosed to account for the crazy, wild behavior, and he had to go back, as I was not what was best for him.

I then decided a breeder was what was the best route for me...I would find a great breeder, my baby would come to me at 12 weeks and we would grow together....that would have worked in theory, but I had NO idea about how to select a breeder and while she was actually very active on the show circuit and also on YT, I ASSUMED she was reputable....she was NOT, and I had 2 puppies from her that both died from congenital defects at less than 5 months of age. THAT was the straw that broke my camels back! I decided I would become a breeder that bred healthy dogs that were correct and beautiful and well adjusted....puppies that did not break a wide eyed, totally in love new owner's heart. It took me over 18 years to get enough knowledge to contribute positively to breeding healthy, beautiful, well adjusted puppies, and to get connected with great breeding/show people with old, established, fantastic lines that are generations and generations old....

Some people do great adopting and rescuing dogs and I think that is absolutely fantastic and it certainly works well for all the unfortunate deserted babies....but it doesnt work for all of us. To avoid contributing to the deserted, discarded, maladjusted puppies abandoned in shelters and on the streets, I spent a ton of time and money, developing a breeding program that has produced long lived, well adapted, well adjusted, personable, beautiful babies, with loving, concerned, closely scrutinized new owners, that stay in contact with me at Christmas every year so I am able to track my breeding program over the years!

I've volunteered with a rescue for a few years now, and there are others on here that have been doing it for a very long time. 99% of the breeders are NOT good breeders. Reputable breeders are extremely hard to find, and they are part of the huge problem of all these millions of perfectly good dogs getting put down every year. These breeders are ones that do not check out potential buyers. They will sell to anyone who has the money. They don't interview the family to see if they are a fit. They sell to brokers, pet shops, and online to anyone sight unseen. If the puppy has a problem, the health guarantee doesn't cover anything past 72 hours or a few months at best, and will just offer you to return the puppy for a new one (who would agree to that anyway?). I could go on. So yes, they are very wide spread.

And yes, people all the time say mean things about small breeds. We get more cute comments more than the mean ones thankfully. People who automatically hate small dogs seriously have a problem. With a man he def has a problem with his own masculinity. Don't they know a man with a small dog is a HUGE chick magnet?

My phone won't me edit my post, but I forgot to mention, we did not give our lab to the pound! She was given to a man we knew who owned a farm and had an awesome life there.

I think breeder shaming is a very common thing. I recognize that there are many people making very bad choices that negatively effect both people and dogs when it comes to breeding. I think though, that it is easy to get caught up in the adopt don't shop mantra and some pretty rude behaviors and attitudes that ultimately endanger our breed and every other breed that is established and bred intentionally.

A breed is characterized by specific, determined traits and in an ideal world a breeder is breeding with well managed health histories, current health evaluations and peer evaluations with the intent to improve areas of fault and establish genetic lines that uphold the standard of said breed.

Without breeders specifically and intentionally breeding dogs, we do not get to have dog breeds. That said, there are many bad breeders. Also, there are many sweet and wonderful dogs who are not bred to standard or who are mixed breeds or shelter dogs- these are not bad dogs, although as was highlighted by Judys story, rescue has its own set of challenges and should be taken with the weight that it is and acknowledged that it is not the best choice for everyone.

I believe there is great value in the work of breeders and that the best thing we can do is educate and encourage the best breeding practices possible because we do not get to have golden retrievers or Labradors or Yorkshire terriers or poodles without intentional breeding of intentionally selected dogs. I think it is dangerous territory for any dog lover- particularly those who have fallen in love with a specific breed- to behave in an anti breeder fashion. We need to encourage and strengthen good practices by being knowledgable and sharing knowledge. Attitudes of disdain only perpetuate bad behavior- people don't seek help or education and more bad choices are made, more animals suffer and more people have broken hearts and giant vet bills. The people who would shame you should be gently educated. I am proud to be a Yorkshire terrier owner, I am grateful to have spent life with Lilah since she left her mother and I hope that we will be blessed with Yorkshire terriers for many more years to come. If we do not have breeders to support that then all we will have left are coarse coated, shedding, open fontanelled, liver shunted, yorkiepomchioodles, and I do not want that.

I've definitely come across people expressing their wish for breeders to stop breeding. I myself wish that the whole business of breeding animals was something that was regulated, licensed, and controlled a bit. Kinda like how a doctor has to be licensed to practice medicine, and you know that they're qualified to do so and there is ethical codes they're following, etc.

I'm all for rescuing animals and I support rescue groups that do a lot of good work to help animals that have been abused, abandoned, etc. But my dogs aren't from that category because it was really important to me to have healthy dogs, and I knew that I'd have the best odds of that with a breeder who knows what they're doing. So that's the route I went. I think the people who want breeders to stop breeding are making those comments from a pet overpopulation viewpoint, and not from a genetic quality standpoint. And I agree with them but just differ in that I wish there were less breeders and only people qualified to do so.

I actually find it odd that there are a lot of people expressing the attitude of breeders to stop breeding because it stands in contrast to how people think in regard to themselves reproducing. People think they have the right to breed as incontinently as they want to. It's just kinda odd they'd have a different attitude regarding animals. I'm a big believer of eugenics (or anti-disgenics), and I think it'd be great if people could practice a benign form of it. Ultimately though if somebody gives you a bunch of crap over you purchasing from a breeder instead of rescuing, you could make a comment about how they should've adopted a child instead of having one of their own. I'd imagine that'd probably lead to a good discussion.

There is a little bit too jmuch breeder shaming. It is important to let people know of bad breeders but not be so skeptical we are going to paint them all with the same brush, if there were not breeders some just hobby breeders none of us would have dogs so its important to remember that we should all be striving to buy from a good reputable breeder that weeds out all the bad ones

There are only regulations in regards to large scale breeders, i.e. puppy mills. They are inspected by the USDA.

As far as adopting children, that is exactly how I feel, and exactly why I don't have kids. People have their own children out of a selfish need to see their own genes passed down. There are so many children that need homes that are orphaned or given up for adoption. However, they sure don't make adoption an easy process, do they?!

And as for rescue dogs not being healthy, that is totally false. Every single foster I've had has been healthy. The only one that wasn't needed bladderstone surgery, but that wasn't a genetic defect. Not to say these dogs came from great breeders bc they didn't, but as far as health, they were all fine. It's true many dogs in rescue have psychological or health problems, but not all, and you can't paint them all with the same brush either.

I believe in rescue dogs, but I have a year-long allergy problem, yet I love dogs. So after much research, I ended up chosing yorkies because of their interesting characteristics and because they're relatively hypoallergenic.

During my yorkie search, I found that there weren't any reputable yorkie breeders where I live that didn't have year(s)-long waiting lists, but there were plenty of backyard breeders. There are many breeders who ship their puppies via airplane too, which was a shocker to me. There are also many that sell 'teacup yorkies'. I don't mean to be judgmental, but it seems that some of these backyard breeders run like a business; personally it made me feel uncomfortable. Does this make me a breeder shamer?

I wanted to buy my baby from a reputable breeder and ended up finding one a bit farther that occasionally comes to my city to compete in dog shows. I do believe in getting puppies from reputable breeders if not adopting rescues. Otherwise, you really risk getting a puppy for health issues; those breeders should be banned...

You wanna know why many people breeder shame? Bc most breeders are like this:
AKC Registered Pure Breed English Bulldog Puppies Now Available. | Las Vegas | Yelp

We get this type of thing on Yelp all the time.

I agree with you and like I said, 99% of breeders out there are like the ones you mentioned. the good ones know who they are. Unfortunately the bad ones don't know who they are.

We have taken in off the street or rescued at least 6 animals in 25 years. Five of which were just fine after a little TLC. Two were physically abused, but turned out to be great dogs. All of them were neglected to one degree or another. One had serious medical issues (sarcoptic mange, serious malnutrition and almost died due to parasites) but once he was cured he is now a fabulous dog. Only one turned out to have a serious personality flaw (bit me and killed two sheep). BTW, one purebred dog we bought also killed two sheep at the age of two.

There is nothing wrong with buying from a reputable breeder, and there is nothing wrong with rescuing. We each must choose what works best for ourselves and our families.

Outside of the internet, I haven't experienced or observed breeder shaming at all! Here at YT has been BRUTAL to most breeders and some people who have purchased from breeders. :eek:

No one has ever told me a mean comment about my small breed mini pack, the dogs themselves. The only negativity I have encountered had to do with not having my pups on leashes on local woodland park trails. He received a quick and decisive rebuttal, then, it appeared he rode his bike away as fast as he could! There's an arrogant prick in every crowd but they are the exception not the rule even when it comes to bicyclists. :rolleyes:

On our walks, I get lots of oohs and ahhs! I try to return the favor to other dog owners. :)

We have a yorkie hand me down, given to us because of his advanced age and previous living situation.... A very well adjusted rescue yorkie colored shi-tzu mix..... and a papered black pom pup who was also given to us, by a childhood friend of my better half's. :thumbup:

I have noticed when talking with other dog owners on our walks, the rescue status/title is used with pride... I'm guilty too. :p The pom seems to get more attention now that our yorkie doesn't make the walks as often. Gucci was a real chick magnet though for a couple years! :cool:

I agree with Lilah Charm about the importance of breeders to preserve dog breeds.

On the other hand, I agree with Capt Noonie that the majority of breeders are not good breeders. Also, the number of homeless dogs and dogs euthanized daily is staggering.

I have encountered negativity toward my Yorkies because they came from a breeder and because they are small dogs. My experience has been that many people who are involved in rescuing larger dogs assume that no Yorkie could possibly be a rescued dog. That annoys me.

My first 2 dogs were rescues. Max and Teddy are my first from a breeder.

I find it offensive and ridiculous that some rescuers feel that no one should ever buy a dog from a breeder.

Not much more I can say about that.

As for breeders...yes the large majority suck but so do a lot of rescuers.

There is good and bad in everything.

This sums it up for me. No matter how noble the profession or endeavor, the title alone does not guarantee perfection or being above scrutiny. I have been shocked by the number of rescuers arrested in my county for allowing dogs to die in hot vehicles in parking lots over the last 3 years.

Or how about people who try and succeed at getting 501c3 tax exempt status lying about being a non profit rescue? Ahem, Tanisha Brenton right? She's pretending she's a rescue now?

As a long time breeder I fully support rescues. I have rescued and rehomed several dogs over the years. There is no right answer. I'm proud of my breedings and have made many new friends. My puppies/dogs are in awesome homes with wonderful owners. All my dogs are healthy and well-loved.

If this hatred for breeders continue, there will be fewer purebred dogs to show and differentiate among the breeds. I recommend shelters all the time, when folks say my dogs are too expensive for them. I believe you get what you pay for. I speak with everyone of my buyers and many of the buyers from breeders who have quit.

And lastly, why are we importing dogs from Korea and Mexico to fill shelters and rescues? Isn't that just as bad??

THAT boggles my mind. With all of the homeless pups in the US why we allow this is beyond my comprehension.

You know your friend Kiki Hamann was involved with a Korean mill and has some yorkies from there .. she came right out and said she was the spokesperson for them or something along that line. As you know, I have zero use for her and her nonsense anyway. Our rescue has been trying to place one of her ill bred pups for a while now....my understanding is that she was bred by Kiki and I was told that at least one of the parents was from that mill she was involved with. While you might say some of this is second hand, I do have a screenshot of her bragging about her involvement with them. :thumbdown

Josie and Amadeus are both from a Korean breeder. Both were "purchased" from Betty who will freely tell you that Kiki never paid for either dog. There was supposed to be a "barter" but what Betty received was used and damaged product. She is quite open about her experiences with those two. Oh and she required a no breeding agreement which was not honored

Not surprising. I don't know why anyone deals with those two. They are so obvious in my mind....

You are all scaring me. I found several breeders but few who breed Yorkies. They are miles away from where I live So, I must trust that the breeder is who she says she is. I believe I have a quarante coming with my dogs, but I will check before they arrive. She has been sending me photos of the girl and the boy almost every other day. She said the dogs are so lucky to be going to a home like mine. I pray they will be healthy. Loosing my Yorking was very hard on me. Don't want to go through that again. My Vet has a program where I pay $400.00 per dog and for two years EVERYTHING is covered. Everything! I am trying to think, do I really think I will spend 800 dollars in the next 2 years on these babies. What do you think.

That is 33.00 a month a piece (66.00 for both dogs) and when the two years is up, you will be responsible for any/all follow up care regarding illness/injuries that arose during those two years.

I think I would go with a traditional insurance company instead. By insuring with a traditional insurance company from the start, you avoid all the pre-existing exclusions, and I believe Healthy Paws and Trupanion are both less than 33.00 a month. You may have a deductible with traditional insurance, but all issues will be covered for the entire time you are with that insurance company. Please look into traditional pet insurance first.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand my stance on this. When given the choice of between rescue through shelter/reputable rescue organization or purchasing through website/petshop/questionable breeder, etc, I will always choose rescue. Without reputable breeders, yes we wouldn't have quality dogs, but without the bad breeders we wouldn't have a whole slew of problems.

Is that like the plan from Banfield/Petsmart? I know from Banfield not everything is covered. It's just for shots and spay/neuter. For instance if the pup breaks a leg, it's not covered. I agree to go with traditional insurance. Anyway, $400 for two years for two dogs is insanely cheap. There has to be a catch. Buying the dog is the cheapest part of the equation. The cost of taking care of the dog is what is expensive.

Who is Betty?

Betty's Yorkies. Name is Betty Pedrum but her FB page is Joanne Betty Pauze. From her web site (see below) . she sells $50k dogs to celebs

Where do you get your puppies?

We work with a select group of licensed breeders in S. Korea. Our breeders have a consistent record of providing healthy and extremely smaller than average puppies. We screen out any breeders that don’t meet our quality of standards. We do not work with puppy mills.

I've never heard of the usda. I take it must be an American organization of some sorts. It does sound odd to me though that they would inspect and license large scale breeders, i.e. puppy mills, to operate. Cause by definition aren't they substandard. It's large scale and done for profit so of course it's substandard, and god knows they're not being discriminate in the breeding pairs and things of that nature. Aren't they the ones that sell to pet stores? I don't know. Maybe it helps and the usda is doing a good job.

This whole topic is quite contentious. But I stand firm on my position that there's too many people breeding and contributing to pet overpopulation, and at the same time there is not enough good quality, doing it the right way, reputable breeders out there.

The USDA inspections on large scale breeders is not a good thing. Quite the opposite in fact. The USDA mainly inspects farms for beef, pork, and chicken. The dogs in these USDA inspected "farms" are treated as livestock.

The cost of the Vets Plan is $400.00 for EACH dog. Then they are covered for TWO YEARS.
The insurance I found for both dogs, was more expensive. My Vet requires me to pay the bill for the dogs and submit it to the insurance company for reimbursement. In time, I would think these Vets will have an insurance person where this is all they do. But, right now, they do not wait for the check from the Insurance company and leave that up to me.

Hopefully, in time insurance for pets will change; but yes most vets want to be paid when services are rendered.

I would want to have a very detailed list of what the vet is covering at that price. Everything covers way too much and I am quite sure everything won't be covered. Pancreatitis, fractured legs, luxating patella, torn ligaments...the list of expensive vet costs is endless. Yorkies need dental care and usually need dentals...is that covered?

Thanks to animal rights campaigning, these days society in general takes a dim view of all pure bred dogs and their breeders. People want to be on a band wagon, regardless of its mission. Anti-pure-bred dogs is right now a popular bandwagon and those of us who love the Yorkshire Terrier breed have no choice but to tough out this trend in the interests of saving the breed.
It's a pathetic state of affairs.