Fighting Issues Between 2 Intact Females

[llillieMax]

Hi I am new to the site and have a problem with my yorkies. I got my first child - my problem child from a pet store. They told me she was a yorkie. I fully believe now that she is a silkie. She looked just like a yorkie as a baby but as she has gotten older her snout is longer and she is blonde with dark undercoat. My male and other female came from a private breeder and their snouts are pug and their chocolate and tan colors have stayed.Plus their hair has grown long where as problem child hair has taken three years and still isn't the length theirs is.Plus the texture is a little different.
The problem is this past year the two females both got pregnant at the same time. Problem child had already delivered one litter and this was her second. She normally weighs about7-8 lbs where as little girl weighs around 5 and it was her first litter. I wasn't home for the first litter but when both of them delivered the same day for the second time around I was home. Little girl had jumped into problem child's box when she started to deliver she did not know what was going on.The puppy was unusally large for her and problem child ate the head off. I freaked when I found them so I then split them up and had to help deliver problem child's puppies to make sure she did not kill them.She did fine. At first every thing was going fine. I kept the momas and puppies separate so I could tell them apart as to who's was who's. After some time had passed the mothers started fighting .They were fighting to the death. After some time they finally made up. The problem is they had gone back into heat and started fighting again. Problem child is attacking little girl. And now little girl is scared to death of her and won't make up with her. They have been out of heat for over 2 1/2 weeks now and I am still having these terrible fights. I have personally been bitten by problem child three times. They go for the throat area and I afraid problem child is going to kill little girl. Do I get problem child spayed will that fix the problem or what do I do. please I need some advice. On researching problem child's geneaolgy I did find she came from a puppy mill in Missouri.

[Wylie's Mom]

Hi and welcome to YT .

Yes, you should most definitely get them *all* fixed so that you're not bringing any more surplus animals into this world. Are you breeding for a reason, or were these all "oops" breedings...? Either way, unless these are truly show-quality yorkies, I would not recommend breeding these kiddos, lest they just end up in a shelter...which happens to 7-8 million pets a year now (3-4 million are killed/euthanized every year). In my opinion, breeding should only be done very specifically...with a mentor involved, all health testing done to the dogs prior to breeding, and only should involve the very best example of the breed.

Do the dogs have names?

[llillieMax]

As far as getting them all fixed that is a decision my husband and I will make on our own. As far as problem child, I am told that fixing her will not fix the problem completely. What I am not told is what solution other than fixing her should I do besides keeping them apart. Before they all got along and I did not have to keep them crated which to me all day and night crate is inhuman. there has to be another solution maybe some type of medicine to fix something. I don't know that is why I am asking Thank you

[Yorkiemom1]

Spay both females. This is a disaster.....you are breeding a dog from a pet store.......not even sure if it is even a yorkie. This is wrong on so many different levels....mommas fighting, eating puppies, OMG.............spay these dogs and yes, they will continue to fight because that is what breeding females do on a good day...ill bred dogs with questionable temperaments laid down in their genetics, which you have NO idea about, reproducing questionable babies.....please stop this madness.......this is brutalizing the unfortunate dogs involved, the unfortunate babies being brought into the world by these poor specimens of the breed (genetically).....WHY are you breeding these dogs? Ask yourself that question. If your answer is ANYTHING but, "To better the breed, or AT LEAST carry on excellent genetic lines from well established, QUALITY pedigrees", if that is not your answer, then this is all wrong, so wrong, so upsetting and discouraging to breeders who have invested YEARS researching pedigrees and lines in order to produce excellent examples of our breed.....snatching up dogs from pet stores, not even sure what they are, no knowledge of pedigrees or genetic malformations, cranking out questionable puppies, that will no doubt be sold on the streets, to use as cheap breeders......this is sooooooooooo discouraging and heartbreaking.........and it is repeated time and time and time again.....THIS is why puppies are washing up on riverbanks in plastic bags, disposed of because of unplanned pregnancies, or on the side of the road, or in trash cans.....this is why dog pounds and shelters are busting at the seams, having to euthanize hundreds of dogs that no body wants, ill bred dogs with astronomical medical issues that people can not or will not pay vet bills to correct or help, puppies with MAJOR personality issues, like conbstant barking, running in circles, nipping, yapping, all because someone threw two questionable dogs with absolutely no known history in their pedigree together....producing ill fated babies.....this is the very thing that is going to drive this country to the foreseeable end of ALLOWING people that can not proove they know everything about their breeding pairs for at least 9 generations back, to breed dogs....and it SHOULD! I dont think we will ever see the day when pet stores can not sell puppies and kittens....but they should be forced to have these animals spayed/neutered before they are ever sold to the public. It is NOT good for the puppies growth to be done that early, but it would cut down on people purchasing disasters from pet stores, then using those ticking time bombs as BREEDING STOCK, then turning around and selling those unfit puppies back to pet stores........something has to be done......I am sorry, but this is a passion I have worked with for sooooooooooo many years, this kind of thing just absolutely tortures my soul.........

[dinkster]

The problem is the situation that you have the dogs in...not just one breeding, but two, and one dog has become dangerous. Stop the breeding and perhaps calmness will return.
And really neither dog should be bred. THe situation sounds chaotic and unhappy. Have them both spayed.

[Tay65]

Originally Posted by dinkster

the problem is the situation that you have the dogs in...not just one breeding, but two, and one dog has become dangerous. Stop the breeding and perhaps calmness will return.
And really neither dog should be bred. The situation sounds chaotic and unhappy. Have them both spayed.

i agree completely!!! Spay these females!

[LadyGemma]

You left your pregnant dog alone to give birth alone the first time with other dogs running around?!
And yes, spay your first dog, spay them both, it's obviously a huge contributing factor to the aggression, and of course keeping them crated all day and night is beyond inhumane. Why not hire a trainer, expert, or behaviorist? You can talk to a vet about meds, but part of it is training.

[Mayzoo]

I would truly hope most breeders do not breed dogs they view as a "problem child". In doing this, you are intentionally creating little problem children to sell to unsuspecting individuals. Are you informing the people you are selling these dogs to that the pups are born from a dog you refer to as a "problem child?" Are you informing the buyers of the character flaws the mother has? The buyers have a right to know, IMO.

We bought a German Shepherd about two years ago. It was likely breed from a known problem child, unbeknownst to us. We became VERY attached to her of course. At the age of two, seemingly out the blue, she killed two of our sheep (got access through a small slit in the fence just big enough for her snout and ripped their throats out). We had to re-home her because we have a special needs child that cannot be around a dog that shows any type of aggression. It broke our whole families heart. Retrospectively, there were signs she was off that we dismissed because we loved her so much. We tried valiantly to train the issues out of her. You cannot train out a character flaw.

Reality is, that could have been our child with her throat ripped out. The buyers have a right to know. If you are unwilling to tell them, the dog should not be breed.

[gemy]

You have asked about help with 2 intact females fighting. In my experience once it starts it may never stop! Yes you can get behavioural trainers in that might and often will do some good. But the reality is long term these females might need to be constantly separated from each other! You crate and rotate - or use two separate levels of your home - what-ever will work.

In terms of breeding - good grief why would you breed either one especially knowing they have temperament problems? I have and will not ever breed a female with a serious temperament problem. Cut your losses and do dogdom a favour and spay these females!!!!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Mayzoo

I would truly hope most breeders do not breed dogs they view as a "problem child". In doing this, you are intentionally creating little problem children to sell to unsuspecting individuals. Are you informing the people you are selling these dogs to that the pups are born from a dog you refer to as a "problem child?" Are you informing the buyers of the character flaws the mother has? The buyers have a right to know, IMO.

We bought a German Shepherd about two years ago. It was likely breed from a known problem child, unbeknownst to us. We became VERY attached to her of course. At the age of two, seemingly out the blue, she killed two of our sheep (got access through a small slit in the fence just big enough for her snout and ripped their throats out). We had to re-home her because we have a special needs child that cannot be around a dog that shows any type of aggression. It broke our whole families heart. Retrospectively, there were signs she was off that we dismissed because we loved her so much. We tried valiantly to train the issues out of her. You cannot train out a character flaw.

Reality is, that could have been our child with her throat ripped out. The buyers have a right to know. If you are unwilling to tell them, the dog should not be breed.

This is a sad reality of people that have no idea what they are doing, breeding and producing "income"....the ONLY concern for these "greeders" has NOTHING to do with the puppies they are producing and everything to do with the income these unfortunate souls are going to generate. This is wrong on so many different levels, it is impossible to even address them all. The horrific part of it is that an innocent person, just trying to get a puppy to love and treasure, is sold a bill of goods that has so many issues and problems....and then, where does this baby end up? On the streets or in a pound someplace....where it is given a specific amount of time to be rehomes, then it is euthanized.......all because someone that could care less about anything but the possible $$$$$$ being produced.

[Mayzoo]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

This is a sad reality of people that have no idea what they are doing, breeding and producing "income"....the ONLY concern for these "greeders" has NOTHING to do with the puppies they are producing and everything to do with the income these unfortunate souls are going to generate. This is wrong on so many different levels, it is impossible to even address them all. The horrific part of it is that an innocent person, just trying to get a puppy to love and treasure, is sold a bill of goods that has so many issues and problems....and then, where does this baby end up? On the streets or in a pound someplace....where it is given a specific amount of time to be rehomes, then it is euthanized.......all because someone that could care less about anything but the possible $$$$$$ being produced.

We expect when we take in a shelter dog (ie Mario) that we are getting a mixed bag of behaviours/traits. I would hope any breeder who knows their dog has a serious fault would not breed it, but I know from experience I am hoping in vain.

We did disclose to the person we re-homed her to about this development, so they did not put a small dog/cat or other animal in danger, and we told them we were getting rid of her for concern over our child---other than euthanize her, that was the best we could do given the lousy situation. Oh, I know you were not griping at me BTW. I am adding this information only because I forgot to mention it earlier.

It is very sad, but we consider ourselves VERY fortunate that when she killed, it was not our child.