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-   -   Puppy before 12 weeks (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/283619-puppy-before-12-weeks.html)

Einstein1 06-04-2015 06:08 AM

I got my pup at six weeks. I feel like had I the choice, I would have waited twelve weeks. It seems like he needed way more attention and caution at that age, and it took that much longer to get him house trained. He was real biter at that age. Sometimes he still gets a little hard mouthed in play and showing affection. A few "no no's" and he remembers "no bite" quite well. He is nine months old, weighs eleven pounds, has had no other issues, house trained to pad and outdoors, and I wouldn't want to lose him for the world! In Oklahoma, you just can't get a reasonably priced locally bred yorkie unless your willing to take him/her home at six weeks minimally. It's rare to find one that is not snatched up or promised to someone six weeks old or younger. I recommend twelve week take home age.

Bobswench 06-04-2015 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4564421)
Yes but a puppy who is leaving there mom before 12 weeks is not coming from a good breeder so issues would be common whether they are when there pups or a older. What your seeing is not rare. Breeders letting the pups go before 12 weeks are either uneducated or doing it because it would cost them more money. Those are not the kind of breeders you want to buy from.

I would buy from my breeder again in a heartbeat. She took excellent care of the puppies and both parents (who were on site), took them to the vet regularly, and paid for my last well puppy vet visit even after she had released Abigail to me. She also allowed unlimited and unannounced visits to play with our new girl, and follows up on her progress to this day.

Tarring all breeders with such a broad brush isn't fair, IMO.

Lovetodream88 06-04-2015 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobswench (Post 4564617)
I would buy from my breeder again in a heartbeat. She took excellent care of the puppies and both parents (who were on site), took them to the vet regularly, and paid for my last well puppy vet visit even after she had released Abigail to me. She also allowed unlimited and unannounced visits to play with our new girl, and follows up on her progress to this day.

Tarring all breeders with such a broad brush isn't fair, IMO.

Reputable breeders don't let puppies go before 12 weeks. It is best for the puppies and reputable breeders want to do what is best for the pups. The yorkie mother club says it as well. There are are so many things a puppy learns from there mom up to 12 weeks. I'm sorry you don't a agree with me but maybe you should further research this. A good resource is ytca.org

Lovetodream88 06-04-2015 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobswench (Post 4564617)
I would buy from my breeder again in a heartbeat. She took excellent care of the puppies and both parents (who were on site), took them to the vet regularly, and paid for my last well puppy vet visit even after she had released Abigail to me. She also allowed unlimited and unannounced visits to play with our new girl, and follows up on her progress to this day.

Tarring all breeders with such a broad brush isn't fair, IMO.

I'm curious because I haven't come across a reputable breeder who let's there pups go before 12 weeks what health testing was done? How far back does the breeder know the lines?

rjwalt 06-11-2015 07:42 PM

I just got my first Yorkie from a breeder, he was about 9 weeks old. No health problems, he was practically housebroken when he came home and eating solid kibble very well. Of course he was a tiny bit bigger than a lot of these tiny Yorkies going around, he is charting to be around 6-7 lbs. His parents had no health issues and he adjusted and begin running around my house like he owned it on day one. I believe the main reason why many yorkie breeders and other toy breeders keep the pups till 12 weeks old or longer has more to do with the size and how fragile they can be when they only weigh a few ounces. They are also a lot easier to contain, feed, and take care of because the litters are relatively small. I see no difference in my Yorkie's level of maturity or independence, if anything, he was more ready. I never had a puppy that would sleep in a crate night one all night without a peep! Of course, maybe its just him :)

I have only had big dogs (Rottweilers, and an Afghan Hound) and they all came to me at 8 weeks which is pretty much normal for 95 percent of dog breeds. My family raised Rotties when I was a growing up and by the time they were 6 weeks old, trust me you were ready for them to go to their new homes but they always left after 8 weeks after they had first shots, wormings, and there was time enough to see if there were adverse reactions from the vaccines or questionable test results.


Lovetodream88 06-12-2015 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjwalt (Post 4566069)
I just got my first Yorkie from a breeder, he was about 9 weeks old. No health problems, he was practically housebroken when he came home and eating solid kibble very well. Of course he was a tiny bit bigger than a lot of these tiny Yorkies going around, he is charting to be around 6-7 lbs. His parents had no health issues and he adjusted and begin running around my house like he owned it on day one. I believe the main reason why many yorkie breeders and other toy breeders keep the pups till 12 weeks old or longer has more to do with the size and how fragile they can be when they only weigh a few ounces. They are also a lot easier to contain, feed, and take care of because the litters are relatively small. I see no difference in my Yorkie's level of maturity or independence, if anything, he was more ready. I never had a puppy that would sleep in a crate night one all night without a peep! Of course, maybe its just him :)

I have only had big dogs (Rottweilers, and an Afghan Hound) and they all came to me at 8 weeks which is pretty much normal for 95 percent of dog breeds. My family raised Rotties when I was a growing up and by the time they were 6 weeks old, trust me you were ready for them to go to their new homes but they always left after 8 weeks after they had first shots, wormings, and there was time enough to see if there were adverse reactions from the vaccines or questionable test results.

Small dogs are still learning from there moms until 12 weeks. The parents may appear healthy but there can be illness and diseases that run in the lines that they parents don't have but can still pass on. A puppy can appear very healthy but not show signs of illnesses until 2 years old. Small dog pups are at risk for hypoglycemia and getting them to eat can be hard. The Yorkshire terrier club of America does not allow there members to let puppies leave mom until 12 weeks. Check it out it's ytca.org

rjwalt 06-12-2015 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4566199)
Small dogs are still learning from there moms until 12 weeks. The parents may appear healthy but there can be illness and diseases that run in the lines that they parents don't have but can still pass on. A puppy can appear very healthy but not show signs of illnesses until 2 years old. Small dog pups are at risk for hypoglycemia and getting them to eat can be hard. The Yorkshire terrier club of America does not allow there members to let puppies leave mom until 12 weeks. Check it out it's ytca.org



Small dogs are just that, small dogs, they are not a different species. Many mother dogs begin to run for the hills once those little dagger teeth come in because it hurts when they try to nurse. They separate themselves from the pups so not much learning from mom is going on after they are fully weaned. I have seen some moms jump up into the owner/breeder's arms to get away from pups at 5 weeks!


As far as illnesses go, if the reason for keeping pups until 12 weeks is to look out for genetic diseases that may not pop up until 2 years then 12 weeks is not enough time, why not hold the dogs until they are 2?


The food thing is a simple fix, most eight week old pups are fully capable of eating puppy kibble, if not, just moisten the food or feed them can food until they can eat it better. Some of these tiny 12 week pups can't eat un-altered food all that well either.


Like with all dogs, every pup is different and every litter is different and the time to let the pups go should be assessed on a case by case basis. My pup came from a litter of 5, his poor mom was spent, ad he and his litter mates will not be "teacups", they were very sturdy and rough and independent, they all had good appetites and charting to be on the higher end of the scale as adults. He was as big s a lot of the 12 week pups people get. Now with some of these pups that are merely a few ounces at 8 weeks, its best for their safety to stay wit a educated breeder until they can pass certain milestones that are needed to go t a new home whether that be 12 weeks or later.


I have read the ytca.org article on age and it honestly does not give any real reasons for keeping the pups until twelve weeks other then "Yorkshire Terrier Breeder will not release a puppy to a new home before it is twelve (12) weeks old. This ensures the puppy is old enough to have had some of its shots, has been checked by a veterinarian, and a health certificate issued"

All those things can be accomplished earlier then 12 weeks. It is with most other breeds. Its merely a preference. Now if one is looking for a show prospect, I would not purchase one or take on home until he dog is several months old and the coat has at least begun to grow in, and you could get better idea of the proportions and confirmation.

Magnus 06-12-2015 10:34 AM

I'm in the extreme category. Magnus was only 4 weeks old when he came to me. (I won't go into details but the situation was out of my control.) He's 5 years old and is very healthy. He's also a "teapot" so maybe that helped? I don't know... I'm just counting my blessing that he doesn't have any major health issues.

I would NEVER bring home a puppy that's under 8 weeks. I made sure Zoey was at least 8 weeks old before making the purchase but even then, I was paranoid b/c of how small she was. And it was harder to treat her for ANY type of illness b/c of her size. She's 4 years old, no major health issues and only 5.5 lbs.

Maximo 06-12-2015 11:46 AM

Teddy was 8 months old when I brought him home from the breeder and I would do it again this way with a great breeder who is good at training. He was 100% outdoor trained and a dream. :D

My first, Max, was 13 weeks. I was scared enough with him at that age and size.

On a more serious note, circumstances are unique to each person and puppy. I understand why people advocate for a minimum of 12 weeks. Not everyone is equipped to care for a younger puppy, especially a delicate, tiny Yorkie.

A person who works 8+ hours a day, or an inexperienced person, I would not recommend bringing home a younger, tiny Yorkie.

Maximo 06-12-2015 11:50 AM

Want to add: the benefits of staying with the mother and litter -- another one that I believe is generally true but not set in stone. I believe Max was born with a sort of independence and good boy sensibility. He has amazing bite inhibition and a great disposition that I think are innate for him.

Teddy probably benefited from being part of a pack for longer.

Lovetodream88 06-12-2015 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjwalt (Post 4566214)
Small dogs are just that, small dogs, they are not a different species. Many mother dogs begin to run for the hills once those little dagger teeth come in because it hurts when they try to nurse. They separate themselves from the pups so not much learning from mom is going on after they are fully weaned. I have seen some moms jump up into the owner/breeder's arms to get away from pups at 5 weeks!


As far as illnesses go, if the reason for keeping pups until 12 weeks is to look out for genetic diseases that may not pop up until 2 years then 12 weeks is not enough time, why not hold the dogs until they are 2?


The food thing is a simple fix, most eight week old pups are fully capable of eating puppy kibble, if not, just moisten the food or feed them can food until they can eat it better. Some of these tiny 12 week pups can't eat un-altered food all that well either.


Like with all dogs, every pup is different and every litter is different and the time to let the pups go should be assessed on a case by case basis. My pup came from a litter of 5, his poor mom was spent, ad he and his litter mates will not be "teacups", they were very sturdy and rough and independent, they all had good appetites and charting to be on the higher end of the scale as adults. He was as big s a lot of the 12 week pups people get. Now with some of these pups that are merely a few ounces at 8 weeks, its best for their safety to stay wit a educated breeder until they can pass certain milestones that are needed to go t a new home whether that be 12 weeks or later.


I have read the ytca.org article on age and it honestly does not give any real reasons for keeping the pups until twelve weeks other then "Yorkshire Terrier Breeder will not release a puppy to a new home before it is twelve (12) weeks old. This ensures the puppy is old enough to have had some of its shots, has been checked by a veterinarian, and a health certificate issued"

All those things can be accomplished earlier then 12 weeks. It is with most other breeds. Its merely a preference. Now if one is looking for a show prospect, I would not purchase one or take on home until he dog is several months old and the coat has at least begun to grow in, and you could get better idea of the proportions and confirmation.

Are you a breeder? Have you been around new yorkie pups and there mom multiple times? Small breed dogs mature slower then larger dogs. I can tell you are new to yorkies because other wise you would know it's not that easy to get a puppy to eat. In the last month I think we had three people post on here about there under 12 week old puppies they got and at least one of them died maybe two. The reason they should not leave there mom before 12 weeks is because there mom IS still teaching them and reputable breeders have seen this as well. Puppies who leave there moms before 12 weeks can have socialization issues and biting issues. The number one reason breeders let yorkies go to young is money. A reputable breeder does what is best for the pups and that is to keep the pups until 12 weeks. There is no reputable yorkie breeder who does all the genetic testing and has knowledge of the lines very far back who let's the pups go at 8 weeks because that is just not what is best for them.

Zeus is Loved 06-12-2015 12:46 PM

We got our Zeus at 10 1/2 weeks. He came with registration documents and vet records. We have had no problems with him so far. He is almost 8 1/2 months old. Don't know what the future holds, but all is well so far. Would I do it again? Absolutely. He is the greatest dog ever as far as I'm concerned. He has a personality that fits right in with me, my husband, and teenage son. He is the light of our lives, and we have seen no consequences to him being 12 weeks. I wonder if something magical happens on the day that they turn 12 weeks that I am unaware of that would make them better than 11 weeks and two days. The gentleman we bought Zeus from is not a bad breeder. He is very particular about who gets his dogs, and he will not sell one to a family with a child under the age of 12. He wanted to meet us first. He has two dogs and breeds each of them (not with each other) once a year until they just become his pets. He has people waiting for puppies to be born. We wanted a Yorkie because my son is allergic to cats and dogs. My sister's Yorkie did not bother his allergies. That is why a full bred Yorkie was so important to us.

rjwalt 06-12-2015 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4566240)
Are you a breeder? Have you been around new yorkie pups and there mom multiple times? Small breed dogs mature slower then larger dogs. I can tell you are new to yorkies because other wise you would know it's not that easy to get a puppy to eat. In the last month I think we had three people post on here about there under 12 week old puppies they got and at least one of them died maybe two. The reason they should not leave there mom before 12 weeks is because there mom IS still teaching them and reputable breeders have seen this as well. Puppies who leave there moms before 12 weeks can have socialization issues and biting issues. The number one reason breeders let yorkies go to young is money. A reputable breeder does what is best for the pups and that is to keep the pups until 12 weeks. There is no reputable yorkie breeder who does all the genetic testing and has knowledge of the lines very far back who let's the pups go at 8 weeks because that is just not what is best for them.


Yorkie Mom is teaching them exactly what that other dogs breeds are not teaching their dogs. Dogs don't learn to eat solid food from their mothers, they learn that from the breeders who introduce it to them at weaning. Teething and mouthing are part of puppyhood, they all do it on some level, the owner must correct the behavior as it presents itself. As far as "knowledge of the lines, all of that should be known before the dog was ever bred in the first place and as far as genetic testing goes that can be done anytime after birth including when the tails are docked at days old, because every creature is born with the dna they are going to have forever, it does not magically change at 12 weeks.


Like I said, the breeder has to assess all litters and each pup on an individual basis. If a pup is particularly small and does not have the jaw strength to crush and crunch kibble, then its best for the dog to stay with the breeder or someone who knows what to do no matter how old they end up because if you are going to send a pup home there are basic things they should know how to do.


And lets be honest, all of this "reputable" breeder stuff and "backyard" breeder competition is relatively new, its a poison created by the likes of PETA, and the humane society who have seemingly succeeded in pitting breeders against each other and guilting people from purchasing animals in lieu of already sterilized rescue/pound pups to end breeding of pet animals forever.


If a breeder wants to or prefers to keep a litter till twelve weeks or longer for any reason, its their right but its not always completely necessary in every case.

djackson59 06-12-2015 04:49 PM

I totally agree, every puppy is different. Some will be ready before others. 12 weeks does not fit all, some will be ready sooner and some will be ready later. Just because a breeder may let a puppy go before 12 weeks does not automatically mean that they are a bad breeder. There are definitely bad breeders out there and some may even follow the 12 week rule but that doesn't make them good. Each puppy is an individual and has its own needs.

Lovetodream88 06-12-2015 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjwalt (Post 4566272)
Yorkie Mom is teaching them exactly what that other dogs breeds are not teaching their dogs. Dogs don't learn to eat solid food from their mothers, they learn that from the breeders who introduce it to them at weaning. Teething and mouthing are part of puppyhood, they all do it on some level, the owner must correct the behavior as it presents itself. As far as "knowledge of the lines, all of that should be known before the dog was ever bred in the first place and as far as genetic testing goes that can be done anytime after birth including when the tails are docked at days old, because every creature is born with the dna they are going to have forever, it does not magically change at 12 weeks.


Like I said, the breeder has to assess all litters and each pup on an individual basis. If a pup is particularly small and does not have the jaw strength to crush and crunch kibble, then its best for the dog to stay with the breeder or someone who knows what to do no matter how old they end up because if you are going to send a pup home there are basic things they should know how to do.


And lets be honest, all of this "reputable" breeder stuff and "backyard" breeder competition is relatively new, its a poison created by the likes of PETA, and the humane society who have seemingly succeeded in pitting breeders against each other and guilting people from purchasing animals in lieu of already sterilized rescue/pound pups to end breeding of pet animals forever.


If a breeder wants to or prefers to keep a litter till twelve weeks or longer for any reason, its their right but its not always completely necessary in every case.

No genetic testing and assessing shoukd be done before dogs are even bred otherwise your risk having puppies born with serious genetic issues that could cause the pup to die or suffer a long life with painful terrible issues. This reputable breeder thing is not new. These puppy mills and bybs have been around forever and it's the reason we are putting millions of dogs to sleep every year. I don't like or support PETA. This is a real issue a non reputable breeders are the reason we have so many terrible health issues on the rise, so many dog breeds that don't look how they are supposed, and millions of dogs being put to sleep. It is necessary to keep a pup for 12 weeks and it is one of the things that set a reputable breeder apart from a bad breeder. It is what is best for small breeds. There have been studies done on this.


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