Unsure about Lepto shot
 

Hey everyone!

Chase went in for his first puppy shots this past weekend (distemper, bordatella) and he did great. I spoke to the vet about some concerns I have about giving him the lepto vaccine and she understood but told me that he can get lepto from rats, racoons, possums and we have quite a few of those here in Chicago. She told me she recommended it but she completely understood if I didnt get it for him. He's not getting it until hes around 4 months but Im worried for reactions to it and don't know if I should vaccinate him with it.
What has been your experience with it? any thoughts, comments, suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Mine and my mom's had no problems with it. If you get it you might want to hang around the vets office for a bit just incase there is a reaction.

Teddy had it and was fine!

You're smart to consider whether this vaccine is truly needed or not, as lepto can indeed cause some reactions. I would see if you can find incidence and prevalence information for your specific area -- did your vet offer that info at all?

If you do get the vaccine, I'd recommend giving Benadryl about 30mins ahead of the vaccine to prevent reactions. :)

Sorry, meant to add that you might find this site useful:


Setting the Facts Straight about Leptospirosis | Veterinary Team Brief

We have lepto here. I don't give the shot to my younger dogs and haven't given it to the older dogs for about 7 years now. The lepto vaccine doesn't cover all the serovars of the disease (strains) and my mostly house dogs are not at a high risk. Unless your dog is going to be in the woods or near stagnant bodies of water or jumps in dirty puddles or wet leaves etc, I'd skip. One of my vets won't give it to toy breeds at all.

Wow, I did not know that the vax didn't cover ALL of the strains. Yikes. So, it's similar to kennel cough vaccine then, in that it only covers certain strains. Good to know. I had never, ever heard this before...I don't think...?

Interesting....and I'm really glad I live in the desert right now since Lepto doesn't really occur here bc it sure sounds like a nasty disease if contracted.

I rather like this site you linked to, btw -- looking around right now at it. We may want this lepto article in the library maybe....?

:thumbup::thumbup:
We dont have that many cases of Lepto here....and absolutely everything else posted above I agree with, right down to the last sentence. I do not recommend my new owners give the vaccine, and if they do, do the Benadryl shot prior to the vaccine, wait in the vet office for 20 min or so for the shot to take effect, give the vaccine and then hang around the vet waiting room for another half hour to see if the pup is going to have a reaction to it. I had ONE owner that went to her vet, did not follow my suggestions, vet gave the vaccine, owner left the vet, and was barely out of the parking lot and the pup went into anaphylactic shock and died before she could get the car u-turned and parked in the vet lot again! If only she had listened.........

If I recall correctly, the vaccine only covers about 4 strains and there are hundreds. Of course, many strains are more prevalent then others, but for me the risk of side effects outweighed the benefits of coverage. Also, there is some question on how often the vaccine needs to be given to be effective. Some sources believe every 6 - 8 months. Taking that and my boys' lifestyle into account, I choose not to give it.

Lepto does scare me though. It can enter through the nose and eyes. An infected dog can shed it peeing anywhere.

Edit to add: many dogs here on YT do fine with the vaccine.

Thank you. I hope the OP finds the site useful. As with everything, I do not believe that a one size fits all approach is the best approach to anything. I think everyone is correct in stating the known pros AND cons of this vaccine and I think it is the right thing to consider both and then imperative to follow those considerations up with individualized vet advice.


For example, my vets advice was on the basis that I live in England. He confirmed that the chance of contracting Lepto was 1:10,000,000 (due to the vaccinations efficacy in minimizing contraction) and the chance of reaction to the vaccine was 1:10,000,000,000. Based on these odds, he felt it was a good idea to get the vaccination because the disease (if contracted) is very serious. It is up to the individuals thoughts, environment, risk ratio calculation etc to decide on what they think is the best course of action but I firmly believe that vets have the most up to date info re: vaccinations. For example, my vet stated that adverse reactions used to be very common until a few years back when the live antibodies were reduced or altered and reflected in a vaccination brand change. However, this was info from last year and I would not personally be up to date on any gains made in this area as of today.


Medical info and advice is always changing and so I think it is always a good idea to consult those who are in the field as it is part of their job to be on top of dynamic info as it pertains to treatments, preventatives, etc.


Science talk aside, I was worried and now I'm not because Teddy had absolutely no reaction to the vaccine and now has less than a 1:10,000,000 chance of contracting this horrible condition! However, thanks to this site, I did prepare myself with the right vet questions and prep in the event something did happen. As a result of the info on YT, I felt I made an informed decision for my boy and that is very important!

I missed your link earlier . . . thank you! I'm off to read.

[QUOTE=SirTeddykins;4560480]Thank you. I hope the OP finds the site useful. As with everything, I do not believe that a one size fits all approach is the best approach to anything. I think everyone is correct in stating the known pros AND cons of this vaccine and I think it is the right thing to consider both and then imperative to follow those considerations up with individualized vet advice.


For example, my vets advice was on the basis that I live in England. He confirmed that the chance of contracting Lepto was 1:10,000,000 (due to the vaccinations efficacy in minimizing contraction) and the chance of reaction to the vaccine was 1:10,000,000,000. Based on these odds, he felt it was a good idea to get the vaccination because the disease (if contracted) is very serious. It is up to the individuals thoughts, environment, risk ratio calculation etc to decide on what they think is the best course of action but I firmly believe that vets have the most up to date info re: vaccinations. For example, my vet stated that adverse reactions used to be very common until a few years back when the live antibodies were reduced or altered and reflected in a vaccination brand change. However, this was info from last year and I would not personally be up to date on any gains made in this area as of today QUOTE]



I admittedly know nothing about this topic (which is why I read these threads). I assume the 1 in 10 million chance of contracting Lepto is for the dogs who have been vaccinated. But only a 1 in 10 billion chance of having a reaction. Those odds are astronomical. Why is there even a concern about it?

I am not swayed in favor of the lepto vaccine given the statistical information about it, which must be weighed against the fact that there are a lot of reactions to the vaccine, especially in toy breeds which are not well quantified. It makes it easy for vets to claim that reactions are "anecdotal" along with the fact that vaccines are still big business for vets. There is almost always going to be a justification for a vaccine, but there may be more than one justification for not giving it all the same. I have personally been on both sides of this having done the lepto vaccine and now no longer doing it.

I had a dog come up positive for one strain of lepto a few years ago and really pondered the decision about vaccination. My vet said this to me, I'm copying and pasting: We only carry the separate lepto vaccine for 4 serovars. I would be happy to try to reach Dr. (Specialist Name) to discuss further prior to vaccination. I am not a fan of that vaccine unless really needed. We do see more reactions to it.

Here is a consensus statement from the ACVIM on leptospirosis and it has some good info to ponder.

2010 ACVIM Small Animal Consensus Statement on Leptospirosis: Diagnosis, Epidemiology, Treatment, and Prevention

[quote=maxdog;4560519]
Yeah, that was why I questioned having it done at all to which the vet responded re: efficacy of almost eliminating the disease as a result of vaccination adherence. If we all choose to not vaccinate, the risk comes back and increases again. This is not dissimilar to polio, measles, etc. for humans. That is why he is an advocate of the vaccinations and this one in particular.


Again, I will stress this type of info and how it applies to you and your dog as in individual is important to consider in line with veterinary opinions.


All I can say is my dog can run in the woods, ponds, streams, puddles from the rain and I don't have to worry about it unlike some where there is a higher chance of infection for their dogs in comparison (regardless of how low we think it may be). Also, as the above link points out, there are various ways which this disease can be contracted so it's important to make a decision with all of the info available.

Thanks for that. I checked this link out and it was very useful but I think there have been some subsequent advances made which negate some of the points due to the changes mentioned above re: reduction and alteration of the vaccination since this was published in 2010.


Still, it's good to balance the pros and cons with available information. I would perhaps suggest that someone look up more recent research or ask the vet for assistance in this area. They are very good at providing research as, again, this is part of the their job to stay on top of these things.

My cousin is a large animal vet and he caught Lepto. It was really nasty.

The vaccine in Europe may not be the same. I dont know that I agree that vets stay on top of things. They're generalists and I've had at least half a dozen not so great vets who've fed me lots of misinformation.

:thumbup: I totally agree. $$$ for the vet twice a year to pump up my little dogs with a vaccine that doesn't cover my state's emerging strains that cause the most cases. No thanks.

I totally agree that geography should be taken into consideration. From the research you posted above, I bolded the following from the research which supports my vets views:


How Effective Are Vaccines Against Canine Leptospirosis? Do They Prevent Development of the Carrier State? What Is the Duration of Immunity after Vaccination?

Current vaccines appear to effectively prevent disease resulting from experimental challenge and to a large degree prevent shedding caused by the serovars in the vaccine. They also protect for at least 12 months.21,78,h Currently available bacterins elicit serogroup-specific immunity, but partial immunity to heterologous serogroups has been documented in some studies.80,130–132 Naturally occurring canine leptospirosis has been reported after vaccination with bivalent serovar Icterohaemorrhagiae and Canicola vaccines.20 The panel is unaware of leptospirosis in dogs that have been fully vaccinated with 4-serovar vaccines, but published data are lacking regarding the incidence of naturally occurring leptospirosis in such dogs. This may partly relate to the difficulty in definitively diagnosing leptospirosis in fully vaccinated dogs.
Go to:
What Adverse Effects Might Be Associated with Vaccination for Canine Leptospirosis?

Concern has been raised regarding the development of anaphylactoid reactions in dogs after leptospirosis vaccination, especially small breed dogs, although such reactions may occur in any breed. There is anecdotal evidence from veterinarians and industry that the prevalence of these reactions is decreasing, and may be similar to the rate induced by vaccines for other pathogens. In a study of acute vaccine reactions in dogs utilizing a large database, vaccines containing leptospiral antigen were no more reactive than other vaccines for dogs.133

Go to:
When Should Vaccination Be Recommended for Prevention of Canine Leptospirosis?

Annual vaccination with 4-serovar vaccines is recommended for at-risk dogs, regardless of breed, with the understanding that the definition of “at-risk” may vary geographically. In geographic locations in which infection occurs in urban, backyard dogs, all dogs may be at risk, and the vaccine may be considered part of a core vaccination protocol. In other locations, only dogs that contact wildlife, swim, hunt, or roam on farmland may be at risk.





In short, the reactions are reduced, the vaccines are affective and further reading shows that there are a lot of States in the US where Lepto is still a problem. This takes me back to the point that a conversation should be had with the vet re: this type of research and how relevant it is to an individuals situation.


To the OP: Your vet is a scientist who is informed in vaccinations as treatment and prevention. I would have a conversation re: what they think the risks are for Lepto in your area and make a decision on this basis.


The types of research articles above are very useful but have to be read in full and considered in alignment with your situation and vet advice. I really wouldn't worry about it too much. Although there are reports of reactions (which are not to be dismissed), this paper and my own vet (in September 2014) suggests that contraction of the disease is far more serious than any current vaccination reaction risk.


At the end of the day, it's your dog and your decision! We all decided that we made the best decisions with the info we had to hand and all of our dogs are safe and healthy - which is great.

Sorry, meant to add above that the research above also supports your views re: taking geography into consideration when making a decision about the necessity of this vaccination.


My mind and typing fingers are too fast for me, sometimes!


I also notice there are some typos but hope you all will forgive my haste :)

:thumbup: ZoE's vet says basically the same. You need two shots per year to be fully covered, it only covers a few of the strains of Lepto, and reactions to the shot are higher in small breeds. He gives you the information (he's all about educating his clients) and lets you make the choice for your pup. I choose not to have ZoE get it. It's marked on her file. He said should it be contracted it is treated with a routine antibiotic, and he knows I'm an alert pup parent and won't hesitate to go see him or the ER vet as needed at the first sign of a problem, so he's completely fine with not administering it. (I'm paraphrasing him, but that's the gist of it.)

Going for it
 

HUGE thank you to all of you for giving me all the info I needed! I was hesitant but I'd rather be safe than sorry. He will get the vaccination when he is age appropriate and I will make sure they administer it alone without any other vaccinations at the same time.
I have small kids and if he ever does contract lepto, it would be a huge risk for my kids to get it and i cant have that. I will have discussion with my vet about administering benadryl beforehand as well and I will stick around the office afterwards to make sure he is ok. What I am most afraid of is him going into anaphalactic shock! That scares me! So I will do everything I have to do.
I researched my area (chicago) regarding lepto and there was a huge epidemic in 11/2014, recently, so I have to do it, you just never know.
Thanks again everyone! You all have been so helpful and I am grateful!

Anaphylactic shock is rare, but we do have a member who lost her dog due to the distemper vaccine from anaphylactic shock. The dog needs lepto twice a year for the vaccine to be effective and again it only covers 4 of the 100s of strains. To me, not worth it, but I understand the other side. This is a tough one - I was on the fence for a while . Good luck!

Now I am rethinking my decision on doing it. 4 strands is not alot of protection against it. I wonder if the 4 strains are the most common type...

After reading this thread and googling about 10 articles on the subject, I am not going to give this vaccine to Max & Sasha. Other than walks through the sub and playing in the yard, they do not have any exposure to this disease. IMO, the risks outweigh the benefits.

I haven't read up on the most common strains seen in hospitals in quite a while, but my guess is that the larger hospitals and emergency clinics are seeing the cases. They'll know what strains are in your area and whether vaccination makes sense. For me, when I looked at our area, the disease they were seeing would not have been covered by the lepto vaccine. i would get more info from your local sources and make the most informed decision you can. My two older dogs had the lepto vaccine every year until about age 8 without any reactions. But I stopped doing it as I said because of the lack of efficacy of it in our area.

This is like my dogs' lifestyles. I don't even let them out when it's raining and keep my yard neat. I try to keep the yard unattractive to wild life. It's not 100% but we don't run through streams or woods so I feel it's a low risk overall for my dogs.

Mine were on it for several years due to our frequent camping tirps. We never had any issues with it. I would highly suggest that if you live in an area where there are feral animals (raccoons, opossum etc) that you treat your pups.

My mom had a goat get it so we vaccinate. Even if it doesn't cover all of them I would rather have the protection of some then none. Really scary illness.