:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Google another "Champion Warrior" of this extreme agenda, Cass Sunstein.....If you are a breeder or a pet owner, be afraid, be very afraid.

I've seen dogs get far, far more stressed and truamatized over having their teeth brushed, toenails clipped, perianal areas shaved, given baths, taken to a dog park, mats being combed out, being put into a long dress, sweater or seasonal costume with scary parts to it, than the blind, deaf, almost insensate 3-day old neonates who don't even have a fear-response until they are 7-10 weeks old, do when getting dewclaws/tails removed.

Once the dews/tails are done and they are asleep again in 3 minutes, that's it, they don't fear that anymore unlike those who are repeatedly subjected to the daily/weekly/monthly things we do to them. I once had a foster dog that howled and cried in fear every time and for the entire time you touched him with a brush and imagine what he did when I tried toenail clipping. Fought, whined, squirmed and bit in fear & terror. He would run and hide shaking every time I walked to the drawer where the brush/nail clippers were. He was far more stressed out than a 3-day old pup was that settles to sleep within 3 minutes of dew/tail docking and never has to fear dew/tail injury again. He faced a far worse fate in his mind several times a week. Many dogs live like that - you see their stories on YT and the internet all the time.

Was that being cruel and inhumane to him because I brushed him three times a week the two weeks I had him just to keep him from matting and brushed his teeth when I felt strong enough? Should we ban all kinds of brushing of dogs's coat/teeth as cruel and inhumane because of their highly stressful, painful experiences with it, the law requiring instead that they be shaved down?

Before I could gain his trust and really work to rehab him, he was placed in a forever home that thought they could deal with him once they earned his trust but he was really terrified of preventative measures taken with him, no matter what methods were used to try to dissuade him from his stress.

The thing is, once some of us start telling others of us what we can do with our dogs at age 3 days and for whatever reasons, we'd better consider where this might end up. Some neighbor of yours might decide they don't like you stressing your dog brushing its teeth or combing out its mats as cruel and going against nature, requiring we breed all dogs for short hair, let their teeth go as Mother Nature allows and allowing them to run their nails down as outside dogs do.

PETA and those just like them are out there, looking to decide what we can do with our dogs.

yeah, that's what I mean.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Thank you for this, Yorkietalkjillie. Where I've been told this will end up is a complete ban on pet ownership. I hope everyone reading this is thinking about that.

For me in closing my contribution; no-where have I seen proof that a proper docking of a tail on a 3day old puppy, is either cruel, or that the puppy sustains long term negative health effects from docking. Yet many countries have gone this way. Just because something is NOW deemed to be cosmetic, does not = cruelty.


And for those of you who think a Standard for the Breed any breed is not important - think again. You have Yorkies that look like Yorkies because of the passion and dedication of the breeders who breed to the Standard.


The ship has sailed a long time ago. Humans have bred dogs to serve a particular function or purpose. If you want to get down to it. All dog breeding can be construed as *cosmetic*, and interfering with the *Natural* order of things.


Dogs in our society are an integral part of it, in fact for 10,000 years or more, the human species has recognized and brought dogs the canine, into their hearth and home. And then started to breed them.


Humans by their very nature, have interfered with the *natural* order of things in many many ways. Do we the right to do this? Across all spectrums? Those questions are way beyond a YT board. We are at the very beginning of bioethics on this planet.


As a purebred dog breeder, my passion and my commitment is to the breed(s) I breed. Irrespective of what politics may ensue over time. My passion as many on this board know is health of my breed, from inception to rearing of the puppies and placing them in good homes. I will not be swayed by emotional come by the moment public sentiment. And by come by the moment is public sentiment that has been massaged and manipulated over gosh who knows 10 - 20 yrs of time to demand a change to standard practices............

I understand they were docked here originally in the UK to prevent the tail getting caught up in the Mill machinery, under which they earned their livings catching rodents. Crystal has a beautiful fan tail and she uses it very effectively in both communication and balance. I've noticed that the first inch or so (the docked stub as it was) has less hair and is of a harder bonier composition, almost a sleeve? I presume this effect is from the century plus of docking here in the UK from their working past? I was bought up being used to Yorkies having no tails and as a child presumed they were born that way like Boxers and Dobermans? I find the whole premise of 'docking' quite revolting to even think about. I love their tails, its so much part of their personality, only man could mess with nature for the sake of fashion.

If we begin to ban things as "cruel" to do with preventative care, then we had better prepare for the extreme to move into the fancy and say, "Oh, no tail/dew cropping? What about all the other painful and 'cruel' things owners to do your dogs?". We might have to begin to cut out mats rather than comb them out if the dog shows discomfort, exercise our dogs so that they wear the toenails down (as my son's dogs always have), rather than clip/grind them short and as the incidence of cancer is well below 5% in dogs, stop having females spayed for the same reason tail/dew docking is frowned upon. Neutering could be out for the same reason. Why operate when as adults we should be able to control our dogs or don't own both genders?

Extremists could argue toy dog owners should not be allowed to put them under anesthesia for tooth cleaning as a preventative due to the pain and risk of the unnatural, "cruel" procedure and instead required to breed them larger in size with longer muzzles from lineages with healthier dentition.

Who knows, before long, dog owners could be required by law to quarantine all females in heat as it will be considered cruel, unnatural and inhumane to anesthetize them and remove healthy, natural, functioning internal body parts to prevent pregnancy, mammary tumors or uterine infections. Rather, we'll be told to take on the full responsibility to keep all dogs in heat separated from male dogs - period - or lose your dog-owning privileges.

What about topknots and plaits - don't those bands, decorated bows with attachments and plaits get heavy, pull on the edges of the eyes and cause baldness from the tightness/weight of the hair? That and dressing up dogs with other than sweater/coats when out in the cold could be considered unnatural, inhumane, degrading to and trying to anthropomorphize dogs.

I'm only saying that many things we do to dogs on a daily or weekly basis to prevent things we don't like or fear could happen could be videoed and put on YouTube and begin to be viewed by others as cruel, inhumane, unduly stressful, risky and degrading to the dog's dignity if we allow dews/tails docked at age 3 days to be banned in our country. Extremists in the 3rd largest country in the world by population are increasing by the numbers and could just be waiting for a toehold.

There are at last at long last studies that so show some alarming health risks to certain breeds with spay and neuter.


And gawd help me, all these folks who think docking is *painfull* and cruel how the heck to you justify a much much more invasive procedure???? And don't tell me it is to control the pet over population problem There are and can be other ways to safely do this. You whinge at docking yet you are okay with taking out vital organs at only 6months old?


One of my points is that humans are pretty adept at rationalizing anything they want, despite evidence or lack thereof to the opposite.


Docking is the least of what we should worry about. Animal cruelty I think not!

Here, here!


We in Leicestershire raise a glass to you, good Sir!

I think its just a personal opinion we all have. I would not presume to tell others what they should or shouldnt do with their dogs or anthing else. Thought this was just a survey on what we each feel. Nothing more or less. Everyone has their own opinion bases on study or feelings. Which is their right.

I know 2 dogs who have had tail injuries.

The first was my mom's friend's greyhound, her tail got caught in a sliding van door and at least half of it had to be amputated. I was maybe 10 at the time so I don't remember more than that.

The secound is my cousin's American eskimo. She was sitting down outside and my aunt lost her balance and stepped on the tip of her tail. Her tail is at least as wide as my thumb at the tip and has tons of thick hair to protect it.
They took her to the vet and he gave them pain medicine and an antibiotic and told them to keep it bandaged and try to keep her from wagging it (yeah right), but there was a very good chance it would have to be amputated. It was very hard to keep bandaged and impossible to limit the wagging, but they managed to heal it. I think it took over a month to be out of the woods.

I could see it being even easier to step on a yorkie tail.

I feel pretty neutral about docking, I don't see it as cruel and I see benefits, but the full tail can be very pretty. I'd like to see the decision left to the breeder.

I don't like dew claws though. My poodles got their dew claws caught on stuff fairly often, I'm glad I don't have to worry about that with Lola.

This is the reason that, even though I'm not a huge fan of the procedures and prefer tails be left intact, I don't think they should be banned/outlawed.

It's quite scary when some of these rules and regulations begin getting passed. And PETA is scary indeed....

Zoey has not had her tail docked. She has the cutest little plume! I love her long tail. It stands up and curls over her back, always wagging, when she's happy. It points straight back when she's watching the squirrels. It goes down between her legs when she is scared. I can tell a lot about how she's feeling by watching her tail.

I don't have strong feelings about docking either way. I have had cockers and dobermans in the past and had to have tails docked and ears cropped. I don't believe it hurt them. Taping up the dobermans' ears was uncomfortable for them, I think. I understand you can't show a Yorkie if it has a long tail. I question the logic for that since their long tails are so beautiful. I didn't want a show dog. I wanted a family member. It didn't matter to me that she had a long tail. As I said before, I love her tail. I'm really glad it's still long!

Both of my yorkies tails are docked. I would love them just the same if their tails weren't docked.I think yorkies with their tails are super adorable. But then that raises the opinion I have on dobermans. I love the look of the docked tail, but with natural ears. I guess I'm on the fence with it.