Yorkshire/biewer mix... Wht do you think
 

Hello:

A little advice...

I have been looking for a Yorkie pup to add to my family. A breeder contacted me to let me know her yorkie terrier just had a litter by her biewer terrier. What do you think.... should i go for it... or contiune looking?

I know this would be fowned upon by biewer breeders because she is mixing her lines but if i had an opportuntity to buy one I definitely would.

Well, I hope that she isn't charging pure bred prices...I bet it's a beautiful combination but a mixed dog just the same.

I don't have any advice, but just wanted to say I'd love to see pics!

Since it's already done --- grab one and run!

BUT - it's a shame to breed a little biewer with a standard Yorkie. They definitely are not more precious than a standard Yorkie -- but their color patterns are so lovely, and as yet, they are quite rare. Shouldn't be doing this!!! What is wrong with people?

If you get this little pup - you will have a "mixed Yorkie" -- that shouldn't be bred. If this is your intention, I see nothing wrong with your getting this little dog, enjoying it, and loving it to death!

Carol Jean

Exactly what I was going to say, LOL! :thumbup:

I would defintely say get one as long as it will be pet only. It will not be a pure breed but will defintely be adorable!!!

sorry to disagree guys, but this is not a mixed breed dog. Biewers ARE yorkies, just piebald gene predominant. The pup will not be able to be registered with the AKC since the one parent is not, but it will be a yorkie just the same. Odds on it looking like anyone elses are good, it should just carry the piebald gene as a recessive trait.
If the health is sound and the price is right and you get good guarantees from the breeder ...buy it.

I don't think she had any intentions of the two mating. I guess it kind of happened. She breeds Biewers... both Mom and Dad are registered.. but i dont think the offspring can be registered becuase the pups would be consider a "mixed breed"

We are looking for a family pet...so i would spayed. The yorkie was my 1st choice, Silky my second and biewer my 3rd...

The litter is not priced as a pure breed.. but they sound wonderfull... Both mom and dad look great... so i guess i will have to wait and see...

I can not take one home til 10 or 12 weeks... so i have a little time to contiune looking and make up my mind...

Thanks for straightening this out for me. I wondered about it.

You can do a search for Biewers on this Forum. There are other opinions about Biewers. I consider them seperate breed just as Mr Biewer had intended. Nonethelss, I am sure the puppy is adorable. Good luck in whatever you decide.

More than likely this puppies will take the coloring of a traditional yorkie. So therefore it is still a yorkie. When these off spring are bred to a Biewer again is when you will get Biewer pups. The Germans are still using the b/g breeding to bring in different lines & to keep them from becoming to white. When breeding you have to pay very close attention to the colorings you bring together or you can wash the coloring out.

Some of the Pedigrees that come out of Germany will list the colors of the type of yorkie used in breeding. Some Registries in Germany don't list the colors in the pedigrees, so in some cases it may be hard to track what was bred in those lines.

Actually, these puppies could be registered with the German registry, as they do except AKC registry. This breeder would have to register them under the correct Breed of Yorkshire...

:thumbup: Thanks for all the information... every one has been helpful.

Being involved in Biewers for 3 years by researching, talking to many breeders, and becoming a member of the IBC a year over a year ago I feel I confident this was the intent of Mr Biewer. The history of the Biewer and the standard, they are both spelled in black and white; very simple. The Biewer originated to the original Friedheck parents. Mr Biewer developed a standard and everyone knows when you breed you breed to the standard. Yorkies and Biewers each have a standard mixing the 2 standards are creating a mix of breeds or a mixed breed. Doesn't matter what the history fact is fact standard is standard. I have my Biewers and love their colors and how different they are from Yorkies and the Tri colored Yorkie. The would be ruined if I bred them to a Yorkie. All the hard work that was put into breeding the 4 generations of pure Biewer would be thrown out the window. This breed is still new so there are alot of changes. Having talked to reputable breeders in Germany told that breeding back to a Yorkie is done only on rare occasions the true Biewers lines have been established for the most part the need to breed to a Yorkie should not be required. The one thing I don't know is how to tell what lines have been established. I'm waiting to see if that comes out because IMO the Biewers don't have a chance to be a breed of their own if we keep breeding them to another standard. IMO, if you breed to Yorkie to a Biewer those should not be referred to as True Biewers.

As many of you have seen Sue and I discuss our passion about this lovely breed. We both have different views I guess. I want to make it clear that my intention is to share my view on the Biewer breed based on what I've been taught and read. If I see a document or it written that Yorkie is OK and will be OK and considered a Biewer...I will NOT incorporate the Yorkie with my Biewer but I WILL say NO MORE...until then I am going to always share my views on the subject just as Sue has been. Time will tell who's correct if either of us are.

This is not to cause a debate please. Sue and I have talked privately and understand eachothers views and respect them.

As I watched the Westminster Dog Show and saw Cockers (for one breed) who were described as the same breed but shown in different color classes, I thought of these discussions about Biewers being Yorkshire terriers.. I still say they are the same breed but just in different colors. The Biewer family would have called them something comletely different than "Yorkshire terrier" a la pompon if they were convinced they had made a whole new breed. Since they used Yorkies and ONLY Yorkies to develop these Biewers, they can only be a Yorkshire terrier...JMO
My parti male has a docked tail but as a newborn, his tail was tipped with white and his markings met the color standards of the Biewers.. I have him registered with AKC but the puppies he sired with one of my Biewer females will NOT be registered as I have posted in the past. They are here with us, being the spoiled rotten brats that all of my Biewers, partis and standards are..
I too, would love to see pics of the puppy. Is it being called an F1 or F2 hybrid-Biewrs/Yorkie???

Hey Rini, she did post pics..check'em out..

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...8&page=2&pp=15

I will agree to the fact that we do sit in different corners here. I might have to sit in my corner alone.

You claim you want documented proof then how about producing some yourself... :) You make all your views perfectly clear but with what??? Show me & others here on this forum some proof to bring us into your corner. Three years of research you should have some links or references or something in black & white for all of us to view that we can all learn from. I have done my research as I am sure many others have. I can only stress that the Club you refer to as being a member of IBC still refers to the Biewers as "Yorkshire Terriers" why would this be???

I think the history of where this breed begins is extremely important and should never be disregarded.

I am not trying to start a debate I just would like you to share your wealth of knowledge with the rest of us and bring us all up to speed.

Touche' :p

I would be happy to provide the history and the standard but it's the same one that I believe you and I agree on..and others as well. I think it's all in how we interpret the history or standard.

Plain and simple..IMO we should only breed to the standard..NOTHING else! Here is the standard..truely says markings are specific..no mention of accepting b/g yorkies for breeding purposes.

http://www.ach-l.de/Biewer-Z%FCchter.htm

Just had to express my opinion here. I think pure Yorkies and pure Biewers are all beautiful. I would like to have a Biewer myself, but have a new Yorkie pup already, and don't want to pay the price for a Biewer.

Personally, if I was looking for another furbaby and a Yorkie/Biewer mix came available at a good price and I did not intend to breed but have as a pet only, I'd JUMP at the chance.

Go for it!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: You may have a really unique pet, and if it does default to look like a Yorkie, depending on the quality of the Yorkie parent, you may have a high quality baby at a reasonable price.

Wish you the very best!!!!!!

If it intrigues you as a pet, I'd say get one! :) It won't have papers, but that won't matter anyway as a pet. A pet isn't a "bad" word. They are adorable. They will neither have the "Yorkie" look or the "Biewer" look. The Biewer has a white base. The Yorkie doesn't have all that white for markings. However, the little white the purebred standard yorkies do have usually grows out. It will be interesting to see how these pups change and what they will look like as adults. However.....that is always a wonder for us with standard Yorkies :) .

;) Thanks.......

I am very excited about my future family member... I did do some research on the biewer line and had serveral conversations with owners/breeders of Biewers. I understand about the standards for the Yorkie breed and the Biewer breed. I think both breeds are wonderful.... I am just jumping at what i think is a wonderful opportunity.

Based on every thing i have read... there seems to be some relationship between the two...

Showing and breeding are no where in my future plans for my new little one...In fact spaying will occur.

But, it is interesting to read everyone's point of view.

:) I will share my pictures as my breeder shares with me... I am too....very curious to see how their coloring will be...

Please read this entire post carefully before toasting me.
 

Careful breeding can cause a specific line within a breed to produce certain traits. I don't understand dog breeding, but genetics is genetics. When I breed two quarter horses, I get a quarter horse. Occasionally a recessive gene will produce a trait that is not acceptable to the American Quarter Horse Association, which prevents me from registering that indivudal as a QH, but there are other organizations that would welcome and cherish the results. But, irregardless of what registery his "papers are in" the horse in view of genetics this is still a Quarter Horse.

So, I guess my question, very respectlully and humbly is: What genetic pool did Mr. Biewer use when developing this GEORGEOUS little black and white dog? If the entire gene pool consisted of Yorkies with non AKC standard colors and markings, then the end result would have to be a Yorkie whatever the coloration.

Please, I am not trying to start, or continue a debate, hurt feelings, or start a flame war, and I certainly don't want to get toasted. The Biewers are beautiful little dogs, to die for beautiful and I would just love to understand once and for all, using the genetic makeup sole determinating factor, are Biewers Yorkies with a lovely color pattern or are they a separate breed with a truly different, non Yorkie or Yorkie + something else genetic makeup?

ps. guys, I have spent about 45 minutes trying to word this post so it isn't harsh, argumentative, ugly, hurtful, mean, rude, or truly ignorant. If I failed in my mission, I am truly sorry.

Momofthree: I was so intense reading every post in this thread, and so confused -- and then I spent 45 minutes trying to word my question or commentary (lol) that I entire forgot to say:

CONGRATULATIONS

on your new addition. Can't wait to see pics!

I think you did fine. I just PM'd the original poster of this thread because I didn't want to get toasted either. Here is my understanding and by no way am I an expert. I can only theorize what I have read. If this is incorrect please state it nicely. The Biewer is a color anomally from a Yorkshire Terrier. Mr. Biewer took the color anomally and worked very hard genetically to produce a certain standard that HE was working toward (as far as where certain marking should be). That would take a long time and a lot of weeding out to put it in simple terms. Those standards that he wanted to and DID achieve are not the Yorkie standard. However, he got it consitent enough that he wanted to call it a different "breed"...not a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier. Just a Biewer. However, the background of the Biewer from what I know did not have a new "ingredient" breed added to it. I could be wrong. Please let me know if I am. It is beautiful and will lose the markings and standards that he achieved if bred to a Yorkie. However, ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION, if you read between the lines, it is not a mixed breed. It may resemble one because it may not follow either standard, but it is .... well....you know....

Maybe this will help.
 

I am providing a couple of links that might help here. First link is the standard for the breed (mostly translated)


This is the Biewer Standard

This is a link so you will be able to veiw Mr. Biewers dogs http://www.ach-l.de/Fotos%20Biewer%2...%20Terrier.htm

hehehe Key word is 'mostly'.

This line made me giggle! Wonder what they know? :confused: :p

"Legs and belly as well as chest hair knows"

I am quoting Rini here, and I am also sitting in the corner with Sue. The german registration for these dogs clearly identifies them as Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon.
The Biewer standard as written by Mr. Biewer calls for
"Entsprechen dem Yorkshire Standard auBer Haarlange und Haarfarbe". The only differentiation he specified was to coat, color and markings. In his words he wrote of them as Yorkshire Terriers...I don't think it can be clearer than that.

Thank you for the links. I looked at both, admired the pretty pics, I don't read German so was at a loss. The Honorable Mr. Biewer's Yorkies are beautiful..... They look like American Yorkies with a lot of white. Thank you!

And.... a double thank you for not getting upset with me. I am stubborn, hard headed and see in black and white (pardon the pun). Either they are or they aren't. I think Mr. Biewer answered my question himself by calling his beauties Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon (I don't know what the a la Pom Pon means maybe with white? )