Puppy play: too aggressive or normal?
 

So my 6 week old Athena has been playing with her 14 month old older brother Zeus. Zeus is very gentle with her. The most problem I have with him, is he sometimes doesnt seem to realize when Athena has had enough and just wants to play by herself. thats when I have to step in and make him leave her alone. which he always listens and does. I never allow them to play unsupervised, and they both seem to really enjoy it.

Here is the thing. Sometimes when they play, Athena well get down right vicious sounding and goes for the juggler. I mean from the looks and sound of her, if she was an adult dog, not a 6 week old puppy did be very concerned thinking she is trying to tear Zeus apart, mad, not playing. Right now she doesnt even have her teeth yet, so no harm,, but that wont always be the case.

I dont know if this is normal play for a puppy an nothing to worry about, or if she is in fact being too aggressive and I need to take steps to stop that. Zeus doesnt seem bothered by it at all, but I dont know, that could just because right now, shes not hurting him. Usually when she gets like this I will stop them and put Athena in her pen for a few minutes for a time out/ calm down.

Any advice or thoughts on this would be appreciated.

If your Yorkie is going for the other's NECK, that's not play. They'll go for back, ears, legs, anywhere but the neck. Roll Athena onto her back each time she gets too rough.

ok ill do that. thank you. I knew it didnt feel right to me.

Always trust your instincts. If something feels wrong, it probably is.

Well one of the things there mother teaches them until they are 12 weeks is socialization with other dogs and bite inhibition. Sense she's 6 weeks your gonna have to teach her. I would say a firm no when she does it and then separate them for a little while. Like put her in a play pen or something.

Please do not do this it's the theory of the alpha dog and that has been debunked and does not work. Also in some cases it will make the dog more aggressive.

Well, every Yorkie is different, and it's what I did for my Yorkie. It worked for her, and in almost every case, there's no harm in trying.

Yes but the people who created the alpha dog theory have debunked it http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...ot-way-go.html

Thats what I have been doing so far. ugh, now im confuse on what I should do. Ill do research and perhaps well get more opinions on both methods.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm saying it worked for my dog when she got too rough.

Look at the link I posted above. Alpha training is not the way to go.

We can't agree on anything, so don't trust either of us fully. Trust your instincts and do what works for you and your dog.

Thank you for the link. Im checking it out now.

Research is important and I have researched the topic and seen with my own eyes flipping over that did not work.

I do know I have to teach her the thing her mother would have. that is in part why I came to YT, to get help with doing that.

It does help that you have another dog because she will learn from him too.

If your pup is getting that wild and angry things have already gone too far. Truly a 14 month old adult should not be playing with a 6 week old pup. It may be OK for her to follow the older one around under your supervision but wrestling should not be allowed. A pup that age could easily get hurt accidentally before you had time to blink.

I never let dogs wrestle and rough house inside anyway. It can be a totally annoying activity, especially when they do it frequently. Playing with toys and running around is different. Wrestling is not an indoor sport in my house.

It doesnt annoy me,an i cant let my pup go outside yet as she wont be getting her first shots for another couple of weeks ( by vet order) an she needs to have at least two sets of shots before I let her on the ground according to him. The dogs need to get acquainted, and they both want to play, also I thought the oler dog may help with teaching. so this is why I allowed it.there seems to be al ot of different opinions on that matter.

Just now the pup got all wild like that and I realized she wasnt going for the throat, shes going for his mouth, but is just too short. but she keeps trying to jump up like to get to his mouth or head.

I realize you baby can't go outside. I am just letting you know that when you allow them to wrestle they sometimes do it incessantly due to boredom.

Right now she is too young to wrestle with an adult dog. Yes, they do need to interact but that does not have to include wrestling. The fact that she is being so aggressive suggests that she is not reacting well to the play. If you let this kind of activity continue (and you manage to avoid injuries) you will be setting up some bad habits for the future.

There are plenty of ways they can interact without wrestling.

Littermates tend to be rough with one another, but you can't let a 6 week old do this with a 14 month old as noted above. Too dangerous. You do have take the role of the mom doggy and teach your pup boundaries and bite inhibition.

I brought my 2nd Yorkie home when he was 8 months. He wanted to wrestle his adult Yorkie brother a lot. When things got out of hand, I raised my voice "Nooo!" and clapped my hands. I taught the boys keyphrases like "settle down."

Nipping at the neck is fighting. My boys will still snap mouths at each other when they are overly excited. I redirect them to something positive like playing a few minutes of fetch or doing tricks for treats.

We also had to do a little separating with the xpen and baby gates in the first couple of months.

I highly recommend using positive reinforcement training with non-physical corrections. When I tried the latter, it only hyped up the pup.

Ok thank you. I get what you guys are saying here, and understand, although I do want to note that the adult dog your talking about is a Shih Tzu and quite small himself. Its not like im allowing her to play with a Saint Bernard. But still, I get the point.

The problem I do have however, is everyone keeps telling me I need to teach her all the stuff her mother would have, ok, I know that, But no one seems to have any suggestions as to HOW to teach her these things, nor exactly what it is I need to teach her that the mother dog would have. Its not something I have been able to find so far on the web either. Ive entered every kin of combination or words to search it I can think of. I can do individual behaviors, but most of them have to do with adult dogs. Ther eis no list out there that is titled....

"Got a puppy that's too young to be away from its mother, here is what you need to teach them and how."

Or if there is, I havnt found it yet.

I know you aren't talking about a St Bernard vs a tiny puppy, but your puppy is still significantly smaller and her bones are still developing, more fragile. Even my barely 6 pound ridiculously skinny Teddy was at risk going up at against his 9 pound brother. Some wrestling is fine when she grows, as long as there isn't back biting. My boys do shadow boxing or karate kid stuff that is funny, but when they get out of hand, I settle them down.

When your pup is old enough to go for walks or maybe run around in a yard, things will get easier burning off all the energy.

The advantage I had was that my older Max was the one who needed breaks and he could escape Teddy by simply taking refuge on the couch. When you see your puppy needs a break, I would separate the dogs with a baby gate or xpen.

Teaching -- if she is nipping at you or her brother, say "no bite." When she is doing it to her brother, you can touch her on her shoulders, near the nape of the neck when you say it. When she is nipping at you, you can make a yelping sound like a puppy would. If she is going for your hands, fold your hands across your chest, taking away the targets.

Read the part about "Installing Bite Inhibition": Teaching Bite Inhibition - Whole Dog Journal Article

Things are going to get harder in this department as she begins to teethe. Give her things to chew on. I used soft toys and made sure Max didn't rip the stuffing out.

Work on general obedience training like sit, down, stay, come. Puppies tend to learn fast and like to do this kind of "work." When my boys get bored and start wrestling and things get out of hand, I redirect them to performing tricks for a single piece of kibble. This kind of training also helped my boys form a bond with each other.

Work on playing fetch together. That is another great way to bond and learn socialization skills.

Having a daily routine of activities at about the same time each day also has a calming effect. Sleeping time, meal time, little play sessions or training sessions. Talk to your dogs while you are doing your daily things too. I talk to my boys a lot and they follow me around like they are involved in whatever I am doing.

YouTube is full of dog training videos. Great resource.

I would need to see a video of the play before saying anything, but biting at the neck does not necessarily mean aggressive. Jackson can play very rough if the right dog comes along, and it may look bad to others, but it really is just play.

Also, god NO to the alpha rolling.

Here is a video of puppy Jackson and my moms adult dog (RIP). They used to play like this constantly. Very normal.


Wrestling doesn't bother me at all if both dogs are enjoying it. It's a very normal part of being a dog.

More normal play, with a big size difference. 6lbs vs. 16lbs lol.

These are great suggestions, thank you. a lot of what you say you do with your boys an suggest doing are things I already do with my 14 month old and have done since I got him at 10 weeks old. o its really nothing new. Glad to know im doing it right......lol

Zeus's favorite game is fetch and Athena watches. she watches everything he does and often mimics him. I talk to him all the time to with a my daily activities. he, like yours follows me around everywhere, even in the bathroom. lol. I do also have several pet an baby gates that I take full advantage of. they get separated whenever needed. also to keep her in the safe rooms, not wandering around the house. If I didnt she would be sure to get stepped on by someone, between her being so small, dark in color, and them not knowing shes there. This way everyone knows what room she is always in an is careful there. I also have tons of toys of all different types and textures for her to chew on. she is already getting some of her back teeth, and we can see the front ones, but they aren't poked through yet.

Again thank you for the tips and link. I will give it a look at right away.

lol this looks al ot like Zeus an Athena, except of course they are a lot smaller. I will try to post a video if I can. I have a couple.

Here is a video of the two playing. At the end is where I separated them because Athena walked away and was obviously done but zeus wasn't. so I told him no more, and put him in the other room with the baby gate.


Athena and Zeus play fight - YouTube

ok I apparently did something wrong because the video didnt just show up but came up as a link. but you can still get to it by clicking on it.

That looks totally normal dog play to me. Just be careful of the size difference. I def don't see anything aggressive or out of the ordinary at all. If anything, your Shih Tzu seems fairly gentle. Little Athena is just being a terrier.