Most Reputable breeders don't make enough money to break even yet make a living on breeding. Stop bad breeders and puppy mills and you will see the dog populations massively take dip.

So well said and I also want to add that if we don't support good ethical breeders, all that is going to be left are the puppy mills.

Why don't you post in the Animal Protection and Welfare Section!!!!!!





Animal Protection and Welfare - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Comm

I will go to the Animal Welfare Thread. I write letters to the Government. I write letters to the Paper. I work with Rescues. I donate, volunteer and teach. I sign Petitions and I attend candlelight services and protests. I actively do everything I can to help dogs. I envision a world where every dog is loved and cared for. I was hoping to find more like minded people here. This dog mania has to stop. There are too many dogs and we have to stop breeding them until we can care for the ones we have.

Many of us here do that but we also support reputable great breeders too. Some rescues especially ones coming from puppy mills have health and behavior issues and some people can't afford or handle that and want a dog that has good genes and will be healthy. I really think maybe you should talk to a few of the good breeders here because I think maybe you never have.

The dogs I listed were AKC dogs, there are many more designer small mutts that are in these Puppymills. I do a lot for puppymills etc too, but please don't misstate facts...you will be doing more harm then good. There are many dogs "purebred" and designer that lay in wait for liberation, they are all equally important.

Also, as I said in my first post YT is a diverse group who include members from all parts, good and bad, of All things Yorkie...this is a forum with strict rules that I strongly advise you read...Admin believes that everyone has a voice here as long as they stay within the rules. Believing that no one should breed is not something the majority believes here....

My favorite keyboard warrior strikes again!! Great Post.

I also wondered if OP was in a PETA group...hmmm, let me take this opportunity to tell you all that when "Outing" a byb etc,., I often leave out much more information than I give...reason? I have been contacted by far right groups that I would not align myself with asking me to help their group etc...which tells me they visit this site and others. Please folks be weary of posting addresses etc...yes I know some of these breeders put their addresses online anyway...but anyway...please becarefu when posting information, especially if your not using reliable sources of information when gathering information ex: Whitepages.com gives more erroneous information than any site I know...including associated names or household members and addresses etc...

Not all breeders are bad.

If people(other than the ones who are breeding responsibly to show and better the breed) would spay and neuter their PETS, if puppy mills and BYB's would stop breeding....THEN, the pet population would probably not be out of control like it is.


In reality, the responsible breeders...the good breeders who are breeding for standard and show quality lines...most of them don't breed more than a few litters a year and a lot of them have WAIT LISTS for their puppys. They are also very choosy about where their puppies go and they really try to place them with the right family, so the chance of them ending up in a rescue is much smaller than people who will sell a dog to anyone with a dollar. It's all of the OTHER people who are IRRESPONSIBLY breeding that is the problem.

It all adds up...the people who think their dog is cute so they want to see what their PETS puppies will look like....the people who think they can breed a dog to make a quick buck...the people who don't give their dog ANY vet care, including spay/neutering, and it's left to breed out of control....ALL of that, on top of the BYB's and puppy mills, adds to the overpopulation problem.


What it all really boils down to is educating the public and creating awareness. People need to know not to buy from pet stores, puppy mills, byb's or the internet(unless they research the breeder first). People need to know that they need to spay/neuter their dog(unless they plan to be vigilant and crazy responsible for watching their intact dog at all times to make sure it NEVER breeds)...people need to know that if they can't afford to spay neuter, they should a.)find a low cost clinic or b.) maybe they shouldn't get a pet in the first place if they can't afford to give it the proper health care. People need to know that buying a "Designer Dog/puppy" is BEYOND ridiculous, when they can go adopt one in a shelter. There's A LOT that the public NEEDS to know...and if more people were educated, it may change SOME people's minds on how they acquire and take care of their pet, and it would ultimately help with the pet overpopulation.

I don´t know what things are like where you are, but here we´ve had a few VERY reputable German show breeders and they went out of buisness - gone, you can no longer buy "show quality" on this island (That´s what the big buck breeders tell us anyway - I´ve seen amazing looking pups).
Why? Because in this day and age, not everyone can spend 2 months wages on a puppy.
Most experienced breeders are AMAZING, yes! Love them all!! God bless them :D
Their pups are perfection and everything is done by the rules and regulations and every pup is a perfect example of the breed, but as I said, not everyone who wants a dog of a certain breed has the rediculous amount of money some of those breeders charge.
THIS is why hobby breeders (as I call them, because most are awesome here!) are so popular these days.It´s because they charge less.Who are we trying to kid?? Seriously, THAT is the reason.

Now, I am AGAINST puppymills and I´m thankful we dont have them or have to worry about them here, but I am also going to say that if it werent for hobby breeders, the ones that are starting out and have adorable, loved and "close to home" pups, many many people would never have a dog.
Most of these breeders are less experienced yes, but just as every other breeder did back in her day, they can also earn their stripes and make wonderful contributions.

I just don´t understand why the more experienced breeders put those that are starting out down (are reputable breeders born at the age of 50 with a show dog under their arm?)..EVERY breeder started somewhere, yet hobby breeders are branded as BYB and crooks and potential puppymillers and then acused of ruining the breed standard etc.
To me its more of a matter of experienced breeders feeling threatened by new breeders because a good person who has had a healthy, standard litter and is selling her pups for $300 (example) is obviously going to take buisness away from the breeder who is selling her pups for double that, and both litters could be as cute and healthy as can be.I get that I guess - it´s competition.
Not everyone is going to want to take a chance at taking home a rescue either.I have worked in a rescue facility and some of those dogs were triggered by the silliest things (the sound of a car, a child walking past its cage, the sound of a cellphone ringing etc) so adopting is also risky and it´s not for everyone.Have you never heard of a dog going home and being triggered one month later when his new owner turned on the TV? I have! It´s also very EXPENSIVE.Again, people are more careful with their money these days so they do more looking around.

I have 3 kids, yet there are MILLIONS of orphans in the world, should I have adopted then? I don´t have the money for that, and to be honest, I wouldent have wanted to.See, it´s not for everyone, and that is OK.

Just as experienced/show breeders are not everyones choice when looking for a puppy, not every hobby breeder is going to sell you a sick yorkie that will end up weighing 25lbs either, and when people say that hobby breeders are in it for the money? Not true either ;)
Did you know that after deworming, feeding, first shots, health visits and everything else that a puppy needs, a hobby breeder may earn (if that) just $40 to $50 on each pup she sells (and that´s not counting the pregnancy bills).I know this because I actually know plenty of hobby breeders (my mother in law was one also) and because they arent totally convinced of the super perfection of everything they produce, I can tell you that these are the ones that are way more on top of things in the long run (again - HERE).They check and worry and go over everything and they adore their dogs too.
Also, just because someone isnt willing to spend a HUGE amount of money on a puppy, it doesnt mean they wont be able to care for it either, so telling people that if they can´t afford a $1000 puppy, they wont be able to care for it anyway is also not true.
If they spend $1000 on a puppy, they have more chances of not being able to aford shots until the following month..at least that´s the way I see it from here anyway.

We must really stop putting everyone who admits to wanting to breed down.Yes, there are SO so many abandoned dogs out there, but taking away everyones options and only leaving the rediculously expensive pups avalable isnt going to fix that either.
People will continue to breed their pets, and they may either keep or sell the puppies, but the over pupulation of dogs is not their fault directly, just as the over pupulation of orphans isnt the fault of those who keep popping out biological kids.

Puppymills are around because there is a HUGE demand for certain breeds but not enough money for people to buy them with.The whole world is going through a crisis but people still want what they want.
IMO, if the experienced breeders lowered their prices, people wouldent feel obligated to search for something they can afford, and beleive me, when someone wants a dog, they will do that.

BTW - All this from a European point of view.I have no idea why pups in the US cost what they do (3 times more than they do here), maybe there is a reason (vets are more expensive? People get paid more? Dog food is as high priced as gas? etc).
All I know, is that if our breeders charged those amounts, people here would end up buying from brokers too :/

I see a lot of talk about breeders & puppy mills but where is the blame for a public who doesn't bother to do their research or even worse the public who views dogs as disposable items to be dropped off at an animal shelter when they are no longer cute puppies or they haven't been raised properly so they wind up with behavioral problems.? Where I am in NY, the shelters pretty much just have adult dogs with issues (mostly thru no fault of their own) and most of the puppies have been shipped in from down south.

I think peoples idea of research these days is "is it healthy, is it clean (fleas etc), does it have its shots" and of course "how much is it".
I think the crisis has done a HUGE amount of damage.What am I getting for my money? Period.

Not true, it's the other way around (another perpective). A lot of the brokers & puppy mills that sell online sells the 'teacup' puppies for outrageous prices, thousands of dollars. Reputable breeders don't charge that much (here). I would NEVER buy another Yorkie puppy from a hobby breeder or back yard breeder for only a couple of hundred bucks. They don't do health tests, it's like playing Russian roulette w/their dog. I lucked out w/Momo, I bought him from a girl who was selling for her 'uncle', but I think he came from a PM. He has no major health problems, but he does have an enlarged heart (one side is much bigger than the other but no murmur) which is asymptomatic...for now. My dogs will be w/me for a very long time (I hope), but my next dog will be coming from a shelter, have my heart set on it. I also understand, since I won't know the health history, that it might have known/unknown health issues & I am willing to take responsibility for that too. I will NEVER support BYB's, PM's & Brokers/ re-sellers!

I'm not sure what the OP meant by all breeders should stop breeding & what that will do to stop puppy mills.:confused: I respect ethical reputable breeders that do it right, to improve the breed, who do health tests. Who are they hurting? Nobody.

:thumbup:

Ohhh, am I in this debate or am I out? Tried very hard to stay out but have to just say this.

Yes, there are undoubtedly millions of dogs in shelters right now all over the world who have had horrendous lives and are at risk of their poor, abused little bodies being euthanised every second.

There should be much more legislative power behind shutting puppy mills down, there is enough wealth in the world, that if effectively and fairly distributed, not one single child should die of hunger too.

We have to fight against what we believe in and bad breeders and puppy mills should be shut down and as many dogs should be saved as possible.

If however, we fight against reputable breeders then we will completely lose our pedigree breeds, are you really saying you would rather these pure breeds became extinct?

On the other hand, I do feel that in the past breeder who would have been deemed to be reputable, have inflicted terrible and painful conditions on pedigree dogs through inbreeding for very specific looks. Many breeds bare very little resemblance to the original dogs they came from and most modern breed standards were based on personal opinions of how a dog should look and in many instances this is a direct contradiction to the health of the dog.

In an ideal world, we would only have wonderful breeders of healthy dogs, in an ideal world we would only have wonderful parents who loved wanted and didn't beat or abuse their children. Unfortunately, this is not an ideal world and we can only do what we can to care for the sick, the forgotten, the broken and the abandoned.

In my experience on YT I feel that there are many, many dedicated animal lovers who devote their lives to the welfare of All animals.
I am sorry if I personally don't meet your standard of ethics for an animal lover, maybe my breeder should have decided against having me until we had world peace and hunger under control?

I see what you are saying and I know what you mean. However, the good ethical breeders need to be separate from this thought. We wouldn't have shows, CH. etc. We need these wonderful breeders to give families like myself a wholesome loving healthy family companion. When I was first married I had the WORST time with a BYB... My husband and I didn't know what we know now. We also looked into rescuing a Yorkie from a shelter, rescue or re-home but most shelter and rescues say the dog doesn't like kids, has major health problems etc. I will be getting my Yorkie around Feb. from an AMAZING breeder that is recommended and I couldn't be HAPPIER!!!!!