5 pound vicious beast
 

Well, we took our 7-month old Bayley to the groomer for the first time. Within a half hour, I was told to pick him up because he was too aggressive to groom. When I went to pick him up, I was read the riot act by the groomer who proceeded to tell me I shouldn't have this dog, he has fear aggression and is a lawsuit waiting to happen. She said she was "concerned" for my children and would help me get another puppy. Can you imagine!!. Needless to say we were all upset. Bayley is great with my family and my kids. He does play a little aggressive and will nip and jump while playing. He also does not like other people in the house, he barks and will go after their feet. It is becoming a problem.

We spoke to the vet and told him the story. The vet said he does have fear aggression and recommended a trainer immediately. I have a trainer coming to my house next week to see if we can help with this problem.

Has anybody had this problem with their puppy and can offer me some advice? Bayley is the cutest puppy and we love so much. Any helpful hints is much appreciated.

I wish I had some advice to offer you but I am sure there is someone on here who can help. As for the groomer calling you and telling you to get rid of your dog, what nerve!! This person obviously doesn't understand the bond between pets and their owners. You don't just give up on a pet because they aren't perfect. A 5 pound dog is hardly a threat to anyone. Your doggy is lucky to have such a dedicated owner like you who has taken the time to find someone who can help him. I am sure your trainer will be able to work with you and your baby to overcome whatever behavior problems your puppy has. Good luck to you and your pup.

I'm sorry. Mine loves everybody to death! Was your puppy socialized with other people and animals starting from the time you brought him home? That usually takes care of the problem. A trainer should be able to help with this, but it's much more painless to start with them when you bring them home.

Unfortunately, fear aggression is a very serious thing to conquer. I have seen dogs with it that ultimately did not have a happy ending. And the groomer, despite how she handled it, was right - it is a lawsuit waiting to happen. However! - the groomer, seeing that the dog was afraid should have muzzled the dog to finish the grooming. Muzzling the dog isn't gonna hurt it any for 30 minutes of grooming time. The way your groomer spoke to you though was inappropriate. She may have still been highstrung from almost being bit, but if that were the case, her manager should have handled the discussion with you. And if your dog gets carried away and starts nipping at your children - that is a problem.

A good trainer will come right out and tell you - at NO time should a dog's teeth ever touch your skin. It is NOT acceptable ever. Licking is fine. But nipping, even in play should not be permitted. It just takes one time for an accidental break in skin - if it gets reported, your dog, depending on your county, is gone. Definitely have the trainer come in asap. Watch your dog when it is with your children. And make sure the trainer teaches the dog that teeth on skin is a NO-NO.

I hope your baby recovers from whatever scares him so much. God willing he will be responsive to training and learn to trust. Have you had him since he was a puppy? I am wondering what has happened in his past that has caused him to be so fear aggressive. There is usually a root cause to this. Even something that happened at 6 or 7 weeks could have scarred him for life. I'll pray for the little guy.

I would get a new groomer. They should be prepared to deal with whatever is dealt to them. My first groomer said Chachi was a problem. We took them somewhere else the next time and the groomer said they were both good for her. The trainer should be able to help you with the biting but they do outgrow that stage of chewing on everything.

I had an experience with Tessa my Cocker - she was SO SO Scared of the groomer the first time when she was a baby ...I had to go get her -

Before we tried it again...I sat with trimmers and the hairdryer to get her used to the noise and she is a total ANGEL getting groomed -

I would never think this is the same girl that one groomer asked me to come pick up - she never nipped .....but she was just terrified as a puppy of the grooming "noises"....maybe try to get your little guy used to the electronics they use and try again ?

[QUOTE=Rfwrosie]Well, we took our 7-month old Bayley to the groomer for the first time. Within a half hour, I was told to pick him up because he was too aggressive to groom. When I went to pick him up, I was read the riot act by the groomer who proceeded to tell me I shouldn't have this dog, he has fear aggression and is a lawsuit waiting to happen. She said she was "concerned" for my children and would help me get another puppy. Can you imagine!!.

OMG the absolute nerve of her ! If she is a licensed groomer you should report her. Like what on earth is she doing grooming dogs if she cannot control a 7 month old Yorkie puppy ! As a last resort she should have muzzled him. Grrrrrrr the puppy is smarter then her and knew to be afraid !
I have a rescue dog that is totally terrified...was obviously abused and suffers from fear aggression. I just warn everyone not to bother her and she will not bother you. When family members want to pick her up they know to let her see them and smell their hand first and not to startle her. Poor little thing...she is so sweet and some horrible monster obviously abused her.
Your puppys behavior seems rather normal to me...some puppys are just stronger and more aggressive then others. I would think a trainer would certainly be able to teach the poor baby to calm down and teeth are for chewing not biting !!! Good Luck ! ;)

I was told the same thing
 

First of all a Yorkie bite is hardly going to result in a lawsuit! Gimme a break! Second our groomer told us the same thing that your's did. Then we got him NEUTERED! No groomer ever had a complaint again! Now is the perfect age for neutering! :)

Correction
 

We did not neuter the groomer, just our dog! :D

Maybe you should have neutered the groomer. :D

Ask your trainer if neutering does help in this situation (though it truly will help both the dog and you in may other situations). I DO hope everything works out great! PLEASE let us know how it goes. The aggression does need controlled. Nice long walks cure a lot of behavioral problems.

How do you tell the difference between the "puppy biting" that all puppies seem to go through and the "wrong" kind of biting? I mean fear biting must start pretty young...and what sort of on-going training do you start doing to you avoid a nippy yorkie when they are grown up, without getting "harsh" with the little pup?

Francie

Well, it does start as puppy biting. I say "OUCH!!!!!" very loud when a pup bites me....trust me, this does stop that. I say it even if it doesn't hurt at all. You will notice a HUGE difference in the biting after a short period of time. Then one day you will notice that the pup did actually put your finger in its mouth but you couldn't really feel it. Say it loud enough to startle your guy....I know he is 7 months old, but it is not too late to start. Make sure EVERYONE in your house does it. Also, when new people come into your house make sure they do it. If he acts up when visitors come over as you mentioned, I wouldn't subject him to them until he gets under control. I'm sure he isn't "out of control", but you'll notice that once he starts getting "in control", things flow more smoothly.

An experienced groomer should have been able to handle your dog. His aggression probably scared her and the situation escalated. What was actually done to your dog? Was he bathed? Nails trimmed? Anything? I would call around to other groomers and explain what happened and see if they have an experienced groomer that would like to try to groom your puppy. Most importantly, be honest with the groomer so they are prepared for his reaction. Maybe avoid the PetSomething's and go to a privately owned pet salon. The big box places have a huge employee turn a round and the groomers probably won't be as experienced. You may need to go about this gradually. The groomer may not be able to do much more than a bath and blow dry and very little trimming the first time.

As someone that currently owns a Yorkie that is Three years old and is fear aggressive it is livable and trainable.
I would,first want to know what happened at the groomers and what set off the little guy as it could be his fear lies in being handled by a rough stranger.
Could be another dog, could be a smell, could stress of you not being around.
Second I am not sure what training your vet was in behavior but not all vets know what is going on with aggression.
Find a trained behaviorist.
Third watch the trainer that is coming he/she should talk and walk the gentle and slow method anything rough or fast will put the little one into a tail spin and make it worse. Say I who learned the hard way.
Send me a Pm and I can get you some titles of books that you can read and learn more from. All of which I have read.
Also He is 7 months old totally the time when the world makes less sense and is more scary and this is normal just do everything slower and give him time to think things through.
I also get some nice friendly strangers to do the toss the treat and make strangers not so scary.

Hope some of this makes sense and know you are not alone.
My girl Loves her kids and her Friends and will bite those that get in her space to fast if she does not know them. She was teeth and she know and will use them. My job is to manage her stress and her surrounding to keep her safe.
Why is it we must have dogs like everyone, we as humans do not like everyone. As an owner of a girl that gets spooked I say no a ton to people getting all up in her face.
We are training , have an amazing vet/ behaviorist and are on the way to see one of the best aggression trainers in North America this month.
This is manageable and pup can have a happy safe life.
Love, time and patience can heal and make life workable.

Joy

Folks this can be a very serious problem and not because of the groomer but what her vet said. He/she see’s a lot of animals so if he/she feels that this dog needs a trainer than I would listen to him/her not knowing what is going on for sure here. Dog bites are taken very seriously in most states and there are plenty of lawsuits to prove it (by the way I don’t think a groomer can sue because it is in their line of work). You need to remember this country is lawsuit happy and just because he is small & cute doesn't mean he is protected from these laws. You could lose a lot of $$$ and the dog could lose its life. Go walk the pounds and see how many little dogs are on death row for biting children or other people, even Yorkies. In Arizona it is 1 (warning) 2 (ticket) & 3 (death row). The judge doesn't care if he is cute or small. The law is the law.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/civil.htm

I will also tell you that I have been around dogs my entire life but the worst bite I ever received was from a Yorkie. He bit down to the bone and it hurt like hell. I should have had stitches but I knew the hospital would have to report the dog bite and I will forever have a scar because of this bite.

I have had 3 Yorkies come into rescue because of their biting and if I did not take them they would die. The Humane Society called me on 2 and the pound vet called me on 1 (even though she was breaking the law). I have been bitten more than my fair share from these neutered little Yorkies because of their high fear biting and their lack of early training or socialization. Some of the dogs I rescued were turned into rescue by their original owner and for the most part none of the dogs ever had any kind of training. If you also look at National Rescue’s for Yorkies you will see that they for the most part will not adopt out to families with small children because of the liability. The rescue organization does not want to be sued if a child was bit. Also small dogs can be snippy as it is their only form of protection and they can be very aggressive.

Now having said all of this there are a couple of things I would be aware of. First, if this trainer comes in and wants to do anything that will inflict pain on your dog (choke collar, shock collar) slam the door in their face. This will only cause your dog to be more violent. I am in big favor of behaviorists along with clicker training. The second note is finding a groomer who is very gentle with dogs and I agree stay away from Petsmart type of place. I would explain to the groomer what happened as best you know. I do not think grooming has to be a scary thing but it takes time and is a slow process for the dog to feel comfortable. I still have to muzzle 3 of mine because they can’t stand having me touch their toes but mine are older and your guy is still young. Many groomers inflict pain on these little ones and some even dope the dogs up. They make $$$ with how many dogs they can see in a day and they don’t have time to mess around with a difficult dog.

I don’t mean to scare you with this and I am thrilled that you have already called a trainer in. You can change this around because he is still young but it will take an effort on your part but I can see you are up for the challenge.

We have a couple of great members on YT who are very knowledgeable about clicker training and you might search for their threads.

Good Luck and Let us know how it is going.

Joy and Carol (FirstYorkie) are the two people I was talking about in my thread that can help you with clicker training and Joy really has a handle on fear aggression. I am so thankful both members are on YT. I do agree with her on vets not understanding aggression but your vet at least recommended a trainer rather than just putting the dog down - which many will.

Thanks livingdustmops for recognizing my skills.
I am happy to share What I have had to learn.
I am lucky enough to have one of the best clicker trainers/ vet/behavoiurist in Canada right in my back yard. I am lucky that she loves my girl as much as I do and we have worked hard to help her live a happy life.
She points me in the right direction and I go do it.
This takes a big commitment and lots of time but well worth it when you get them happy and trained.
The love that they pour out when the world makes sence is just amazing.
Right now his little world does not make sence to him so that why I say and stress..... slow ,easy and gentle.
Also you are going to have to say no I have a biter or no he is cranky as he is tired and not let people near him.
This is a subject near and dear to my heart and I am sure that it comes out in my posts.
I can not stress enough that if my girl did not have me and my vet she been dead long ago.

Joy

Yes you are lucky, but with that luck comes the responsibilty of sharing everything you learn :D I always read your posts because you do an excellent job of explaining to people what some of the issues are with fear aggressive dogs. I am on the receiving end of these little dudes and it is not easy but knowing what some of their triggers are and moving very slow and gentle I have been able to change some of their behavors. Note when I say move slow, I mean in months.
Yes, sadly many small dogs are put down because of this...

Keep up the good work :)

The most important thing to do with a puppy to avoid fear aggression later is to socialize them extremely well when they are little! If you have a young puppy, you need to expose him/her to as many different people and as many different dogs as you possibly can, ensuring of course that these are positive experiences.

Some experts say expose your puppy to 100 different people and 100 different dogs by the time that they are 4-5 months old! The pup needs to continue to be exposed to different people & dogs after that as well, but they say up until about 4-5 months is a CRUCIAL window.

5 pound vicious beast
 

Thank you all for your support about my fearful puppy. We got Bayley at 20 weeks, a little older then what we wanted, but when you fall in love you can't help it. I don't know if anything unpleasant happened to him while at the breeder. He was in great health, when we got him. He has been neutered. Right off the bat, as soon as we got him, we brought him around many different people. He is so afraid, his whole body shakes. Its like he is shivering. He is getting a little better with that. At first, he was terrified of the school bus stop. Now, he cant wait to get there and see his little doggie friends. So I think with some good training, I hope he will come around. The trainer that is coming, said he uses gentle approaches. So, we will see. I will keep you posted.

The first groomer I went to did almost the same thing. Said if I didn't bring him back weekly for several weeks to get him used to it, not to bring him back! So I changed groomers and haven't had a problem...with groomers!

My Yorkie is sweet and gentle and loves everyone and every dog he meets.
If a stranger comes into the house, he will lick their face, kiss them, cuddle up and take a nap on their lap.

BUT - let's talk about bath time. He really doesn't mind being bathed - He doesn't struggle much and will even drink tap water while I'm bathing him. It's when we're done and I try to towel dry him that he turns into a struggling little monster. He growls and trys to bite - a lot. He just hates being dried. So - I do this as quickly as possible. After this, I let him go and he runs playfully around the house like a crazy maniac - like most dogs do after a bath.

I was thinking that if I took my dog to your groomer - she'd say, "Oh no - not another one!!!"

My pup is almost 16 weeks old. He has had a bath every week since I got him, and I have given him at least two haircuts. He doesn't seem to mind these much either, but certainly won't hold still at all. He is a real wiggleworm.

As long as I keep him in a puppy cut, I won't need to take him to the groomer very often. But, I feel sorry for her the day she gets him. Unless, he starts settling down a little better. I have had several dogs that need grooming - big time!!! and have used my groomer for years. I trust her completely and like her very much as a person.

My rules for myself when I bath and groom my dog are --- be firm and be fast!!! It has to be done and we're going to do it......

I realize your little pup may be more aggressive than mine - but is it possible that he's at his worst at the groomers???? -- and not as bad the rest of the time?

If he is really exhibiting fear aggression - as everyone said, getting on top of it ASAP is important.

I have a fearful dog - one that has improved a lot since he was a pup. But he has never been an aggressive dog - just the opposite....very sweet and very shy.

Dogs are all different, aren't they?

Good luck!

Carol Jean

Isn't there a certain "fear period" when they are young? I've never understood...are you supposed to "expose" them to everyone and everything even during that fear period? Or do you keep them close to the family at that time? In other words...at what age do you start the "socialization"?

Francie

My yorkie will soon be a year old and he freaks about the towel drying.I just rough him up a little and dry him anyway,I never thought about it but a groomer would probably be surprized.It is the only time he gets aggresive and he is in the towel so I just dry him .He is the nicest dog in the world other wize he just hates the towel and always has.

We took one of our dogs to obedience school and the woman tried to convince us we needed to give him up saying he was out of hand. We later learned the woman wanted him. Perhaps this is the case with the groomer you dealt with. With her saying that you didn't need that puppy and that she could help you get another one it sure sounds like she wants yours. It sounds like she was playing you the way the woman tried to play us. I would find a groomer who the puppy was comfortable with or one who let's you watch so you can see everything go's ok. Our yorkie groomer comes to our house and grooms them in her van. We have the option to stay in the house or to watch her. We know the dogs are comfortable with her because she came and played with them before groming them as an interview. It was wonderful. Dogs can tell if people are dog lovers or not so nice. If your baby is sweet with you and not her it might be she is also too rough. Good luck. :c)