If Parti- color breeders what to take the effort to set a standard for them and to petition AKC to except them as their own breed I suppose they could, correct... Not sure with breeding parties if they can get a specific coloring for all it's off spring yet, as with the Biewers this has been acheived... don't know I personally haven't followed the Parties close enough to know. This takes a lot of work and it would be up to the Parti-breeder to want to do this. They may have a stumbling block as they have already registered them under yorkies with AKC... so that would have to be a total 180 to try and back out of...

The founding clubs are the ones that get to set the standards right? I think the CC does have standards and they are a little different for both hairless and powderpuff. The club decided to find certain things acceptable within the breed. Dachshunds are another good example...three different standards related to their fur.

There are probably many others. My point is the Yorkie standards are what they are and the Biewer was created against a standard that was already set. If it changes (when hell freezes over right :p ) that is fine. Just find the whole rare, expensive, unique business a little troubling/confusing. sounds like i am not the only one.

I get what you are saying. And don't get me wrong, I think your dogs are gorgeous. I hope someday they have a place for them with the AKC before too many puppymills get wind of this. Best wishes.

They are really beautiful dogs! I love the different colors. If I could afford one I would get one. I can't afford a $2500 dog let alone a $8.000 one.

Actually, Irene Homer has a brown head with introduction of very little black and white as our Lucia. He has the tri color that is needed in good symmetry pattern that is needed for the standard. Lucia is a very pretty Biewer though and has beautiful coloring with good symmetry as well :D

How old is your Lucia?? Homer is 10 months old DOB 2/26/05.

Playing 'Devil's Advocate' How did a Yorkie start?..Mixing several breeds against standards. I can just heard the debates and controversy now!
I am sure the Biewer breed may not be embraced by all .
Being as the Biewer hasn't been quite perfected yet. Some lines still need fine tuning to reach the Biewer standard. I knew going into the breed there'd be controversy, all I can do is educate, educate, and educate. I am always going back to my mentor in Germany to make sure I am on the right track. I have a vision of where'd I'd like to see them someday. At this point, I think the AKC is not an option. Maybe UKC may be the place to start with them. I happen to meet some of the chair persons of the UKC. I am gonna talk extensively to them about how we can get the Biewer accepted. Reading their website, if we breed carefully and responsibly and have a paper trail, they may hear us out!

Anyway, I know it's a hard pill to swallow for some, as I am sure the creating of the Yorkshire Terrier was. But look where the Yorkie is today!

Yes, I agree as well. Puppymillers get ahold of anything that their is a demand for and they will run with it... Unfortuntely this is happening in Germany already... :( so when importing you have to be extremely careful what breeder you are purchasing from.

We have started collecting information to start a reputable club here in America to protect this breed... :p We are now trying to get a hold of the founder's wife (Getrude Biewer) to complete our research on what was meant for this breed. We have based everything on the Reputable German Clubs already established in Germany. Just want confirmation from one of the founders before we put everything in print... Our goal is January 31st. to have the site up and running and excepting Members.

From the pic looks like he has some black streaks..when he was born did he have white on his face? My Lucia did and it appeard to be more symetrical, but as that hair grows the dark sometimes covers the white.

You have a Lucia too?
Mine is also 10 months, her DOB is 2/11/05.
She's just at 5 pounds. So I'm happy about that.

Proud as peacocks aren't we :)

I saw this ad too. I blew it off as a typo. :confused:

Wow Just around the corner!

oops I meant your Lucia... sorry. Yes, he does have the black streaks as you reference. I have put his pictures from 2 weeks to 9 months I regret I can't find his newborn picutre. But you will be able to follow his coloring.

Yes, I have to agree that the length of the coats does hide what is underneath... :p

Sue, I just had to comment how much I enjoyed seeing those pics of Homer from 2 wks to 9 mos. What a handsome boy. The Biewers are so fascinating!

CC fall under one standard as per the AKC..

http://www.akc.org/breeds/chinese_crested/index.cfm

well each has it's own accepted differences within the standard. Same with Dachshunds allowing for differences within their standard but very specific about what is accepted for each.

It would be the same if the Biewer "Yorkie" was accepted by the YTCA/AKC. It would have specific standards describing the color of the coat. (some say there are other differences?)

This is where the slippery sloap comes in. Yorkies or not? Until they are recognized by the AKC as a separate breed they are Yorkies? Registered Yorkies? Right?

or are all of your Biewers not registered and waiting for breed approval? and if they are registered Yorkies can you change that to a Biewer registration if/when that happens.

And last but not least if they are not Yorkies why are we discussing this on a Yorkshire Terrier board? ;)

I guess anything's possible. Remember the AKC does recognize the Tri Color Yorkie. If you AKC registered parents produce one it can be registered AKC, no specifications or standard about the markings or anything else.

Because the AKC's partners in Germany..The VDH being one of the does NOT recognize the Tri coloring in Yorkies We cannot tranfer ANY Yorkie b/g included to the AKC from Germany UNLESS it's registered from one of AKC's partners, ie, the VDH or FCI.

So the acceptance of the AKC will never happen..it doesn't follow the paper trail AKC requires. Make sense?

Now the AKC does registered the TRI yorkie that is produced by the AKC there is NO stardard that describes what acceptable, but you can regsiter them with the AKC.

My Biewers are all registered as a Biewer by the DHZ which is an all breed registry in Germany (not partners with AKC). The Biewer Club I belong to is the IBC (International Biewer Club) in Germany (equal to the YTCA but for Biewers). So, I have Biewers, not Yorkies.

You being sarcastic? :p :p They did stem from the Yorkies of course they are a topic on a Yorkie form. So are cats, other breeds..etc..I mentioned CC and you mentioned Doxies..lolol..

To clarify...the acceptance of the AKC to accept my Biewers as Tri Yorkies...is highly unlikely...

I have been following this post and decided to say a couple of thins. First, AKC requires pics of the tris, plus parents papers proving they are AKC. Then AKC does have a rule (not sure if that qualifies as a "standard") that says the base coat (probably a better explanation somewhere) is white with visible patches of 2 other colors. The numbers used to register parti Yorkie markings are the same as for Parti Poodles, Pom, etc. Parti, as designated by AKC is "Markings", and is assigned the same number no matter the breed. I did allow a breeding between my AKC parti male and my Biewer female. The puppies are marked as per the Biewer standard. BUT, they will not be registered and will be placed as the loving and loved pets they are.
I currently have a mating between my Biewer male and Biewer female. Will I register them? I do not know. Can anyone tell me how that will improve the quality of my babies? I would charge the same no matter the registry. They would be the same beautiful Biewers that the parents are.
I am being the devil's advocate here in this post..But, these are questions I have been asked and issues I have to consider..I will never show due to my physical disabilities. Does that mean my dogs are of lesser quality? Or simply that I have a bum back and some days cannot get out of my own way?

Thank you Rini..I should have called upon you in the first place..You are the Parti girl..rofll!

You so explained the Parti thing in detail. Thank you for that!

I think you sure as heck should register your Biewer pups from Biewer parents so as you have a paper trail and those that buy from you can. I can't believe what's out there these days being passed off as a Biewer..sometimes fooling me..but come to find out there aremixed with a Westie or something..w/out papers how would someone know the difference right?
Something to think about. As for showing..I am not one of those that think if you breed you HAVE to show. I think ti's a great way to judge your breeding program. But mercy! Don't 'kill' yourself doing it.

Again, I say register those True Biewer pups! Points of differentiation from the not so honest people out there!

Irene

Take care of that back ya hear!!

Got it. Your Biewers are registered through the German registry that isn't partnered with the AKC here?

So, if someone says they have an AKC registered Biewer they are incorrect? What they REALLY have is an AKC tri colored Yorkshire terrier? And the tri colored Yorkshire Terrier is not accepted as meeting the Yorkshire terrier standard. AND the tri colored Yorkie can't change it's mind and become a Biewer if/when AKC ever accepts it as a new breed?

I am exhausted. Your dogs are adorable. I just don't like the rare pricetags that come with the unknown? And I repeat, this is going to lead to some real scary breeding practices. (I read somewhere that there are people mixing s**tzu (sp) with Yorkies and calling them Biewers. who knows what is next since it isn't monitored here?)

Best wishes. Going to hug my boring standard Yorkie :D

EXACTLY!!!...Whew..maybe admin should make this one stickey..lolol. Don't know if we can do this again..lolol

Sue is working on getting a YTCA equivilent (I think) for the Biewers her in the US.

Thanks for the compliments and I'm glad we were able to have a discussion not an argument.

Oh and to say they have a AKC reg Biewer is INCORRECT...There are none. IMO..Rini has Tris she may have a different take..I only speak of myself..I've been told some Tris can look like Biewers but the paper trails lead in different directions.

I am kinda bad, I see ads on puppyfind that say Tri colored Yorkies from Germany..I am alwasy correcting the ignorant..I feel that misleads those that don't have these conversations. I have also emaile those taht say AKC reg Biewer..lolol. Pet Peeves!!

$11,000 for a biewer
 

Sue, can I join? LOL!
This is a topic that's going to be around for a long time until we get some true guidelines here in the states. Asking an enormous amount for the Biewer is just going to hurt the breed in the long run. Breeders who don't care a fig about the breed, just their popularity, will bring the breed to a halt by not staying true to the wishes of Mr. Biewer. (All breeders here are not included). Although there are dogs that do look like Biewers, be careful as to their heritage. If you are wanting to purchase a puppy, whether from a broker here in the states or directly from Germany, please ask to see a copy of there pedigree, which they have to have. If they can't produce one then please pass, good breeders always know where their dogs come out of.
Rini, I agree with Irene, I think that you should register you upcoming litter just for this fact. It's not going to make the puppies worth more money, it's just that I think prospective buyers have a right to know what lines are behind the dogs they are buying. Even though they shouldn't be sold for breeding unless you know the buyers very well. It's not a large amount to register them, but it puts a legitamicy(?) on the breed. We have to have paper trails if we are to see these wonderful dogs find a place here in the states, whether it's with UKC or AKC...

:eyeballpc

This is what I was talking about $$$, no mention about breeding rights. Could you imagine what will happen to this little darling as a puppymill will get a hold of her? I truely hope that this person will want better for her...

here is the link to the $$$$$
sorry I posted the ad page not the listing
http://www.domesticsale.com/Classifi...ivestock/Dogs/

Actually you will be able to join ( I know your Biewer and it comes from a creditable registry)... But as we finish all the lose ends on forming the club we all need to come together and agree how we want this breed to be represented. Setting the right foundation now will mean success later... :p But we need a GOOD REPUTABLE CLUB in America, as there isn't any at this point the represents this breed properly.

This club will follow suit to the two Clubs in Germany and what they are following for the Biewer Breed. The International (IBC) and German Biewer Yorkshire Terrier Clubs. These two Clubs are using the same standards so that must account for something. As I stated before we are trying to contact Mrs. Biewer and see if she will give us some additional information to follow.

Please feel free to contact me regarding this club as there will be positions on the board that will need to be filled as well. These people are going to have to have the time to devote to this Club and have the passion in promoting the breed... :D This club will not be based on personal opinions but on what is documented proof. We will be following the guidelines of forming a club through AKC's direction of forming a club.

Someday the Biewer breed will be excepted in AKC and since each breed standard is set by the Clubs representing them we want this CLUB to be the ones to set the standard...(following Mr. Biewer) So we can stay true to the breed. If us reputable breeders don't do this we will have others to follow that MAY NOT be as knowledgeable of the breed, then what... The time is now... Even if it takes 10 years for AKC to reconize them.

Though meeting and showing with the IABCA the AKC judges are asking us to petition for the Biewer Breed, they would like to see them with AKC show ring in the toy group. But first things first a GOOD CLUB!!! :D

It is Sue, yes. You are right it is a lot of work, but these beauties will be worth the work...lol. That is a great way of putting the reference as cousins. :thumbup:

As far as puppy mills if most of us breeders stick together and keep our prices reachable we can hopefully keep many from purchasing through a puppy mill. We will keep our fingers crossed. But if we follow suit to this ad we are asking for it.. :eek: That ad is not a honest ad in the first place. :mad: I know mine are WRV registered and not reconized with AKC. It is correct about being one of the oldest registries used for Biewers.

You can just click on my signature Magnolia's Magnificent Yorkshires to go to my site. Please bare with me on the site I have a lot of work on it to do and I just have to find the time. Two of my Biewer females aren't even on there and two of my regular yorkies have yet to be added... Angel shouldn't really be on the Biewer girls but on as a Yorkshire as that is how she is registered. All her siblings were Biewers she took the genetics of a yorkshire. She was imported from Germany and since she comes from the Biewer line will be able to be breed to a Biewer male to throw Biewers. I guess that is why I had a brain fart and put her in the wrong department...lol.

You pronounce Biewer like the animal Beaver. The W is a V in the German language.

I have my doubts, but do hope that AKC recognizes them!! However long it takes! I'm gonna be on the petition bandwagon..lololol

Irene