That's great and I take if from your posts and your involvement here that you are not most breeders. But you my friend are an exception and I would assume most breeders that spend a lot of time on yorkie talk are as well. But the fact is the majority of breeders of yorkies are not on this site and while many do care about their babies and take good care of them while they have them, they do not do that much after they leave. I do have a question for you though you say that your contract states that a buyer must return a pup they can not keep, is there an age limit on that and do you offer either a partial or a full refund.

even show breeders don't always want to stay in touch, I bought my last yorkie from a gal in Evert MI that was heavy into showing. The dog I got from her was odd, could not put my finger on it, called her to discuss and got the typical cold shoulder type of feeling from the conversation, "oh really I never saw that", "oh no he was nothing like that", anything I said she rebuffed making me feel like I was the problem. I called twice and hung up both times feeling upset, I knew in my gut that something was off with that dog personality wise, but I had trimmed his face hair and I was to lazy to make the 8 hour round trip drive to her home so I kept the dog thinking things would change, but they never did, I never really bonded with that dog, yet I shelled out $1,800 bucks to buy him, he was probably health tested. Most of us post from our experiences, well mine have not been that great with high end breeders, so if you ever wonder why I wound up buying a mix for $450.00 that's your reason.

I just wanted to say that pups can be unhealthy even if they come "show breeders". My neighbor paid $1600 for her yorkie from a show breeder with many champions in their lines and the parents were health tested and the breeder had a website of good comments from her puppy parents and her pup ended up with so many health problems that after spend thousands of dollars she had to surrender the puppy to the vet because she could no longer afford treatment and the problem wasnt covered under the health guarantee. I bought my yorkie at the time from a local breeder with ckc registration for $400 and he was healthy as could be with a beautiful coat, a awesome bite, and never had any health problems from day one. He was stolen from me a couple of years ago. My point is that you never know what you will get and more money doesnt mean you will get a healthier puppy. Its just the same with humans you can be of picture perfect health and have a child with a disability or health issue while your neighbor who isnt of the best health has a child thats perfectly healthly so you just never know. Being health tested is a good thing for the piece of mind that your puppy should be healthy but there is never gonna be a 100% guarantee.

yep totally agree and that's exactly why I choose a different path this time, good luck with what ever you decide.

I just wanted to point out that a breeder that states their pups have "champions in their lines" aren't really lying, but it's not really saying anything. You go far back enough in ALL our yorkies, you will find a champion or two, at least. All yorkies can be traced back to Huddersfield Ben. He was the "grandfather" of yorkies and most def a Champion.

Not true! The majority of breeders here don't post, don't contribute to the community, and are here just to sell pups by PMs and to advertise. We don't know their screen names, we don't know their real names. They PM people when they post saying they are new and looking for a pup. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about, unfortunately.

There is no age limit on the return...that is for the life of the baby. Refunds are determined by why the pup was returned....if someone decides after a year they really like ferrets better than Yorkies, no refund. On the other hand, if the buyer determines up to a month, they just dont want the pup, they will get a partial refund....if there is something genetically wrong with the pup, full refund whenever the pup is returned. All my buyers get a copy of the contract when they pass the application interview, in the puppy pak....I tell them to look over and study and write down any quesations or concerns they have with ANYTHING in that pak....nothing is sprung on them when they are all excited about getting their new baby and are not thinkig clearly! They have at least a month to review the contract...if they are uncomfortable with anything in the contract, we will discuss it and if they still dont like it, they are free to walk away from the deal. NEVER had that happen! No breeder can be expected to fork over a full refund on a pup that is returned when the pup is a couple of years old, simply because the owners want to start traveling and dont have time for the baby. I go over this with the new owners when we sit and spend 2+ hours, going over every single aspect of the contract, and every single page of information in the puppy pak. My owners are very carefully screened, and to date, all my buyers with the exception of two, are part of the "extended Rosehill Family", and they are very clear and understand every aspect of the contract. I do work with my people, and if they have Aunt Millie that adores little Spice, and she really wants the baby....I interview Aunt Millie and if she passes the interview application, then she can have Spice. My concern is NOT to remove the baby from everything he is familiar with over the last several years....my concern is that no Rosehill baby EVER ends up in a rescue, a pound, or the streets. They all leave here microchipped and registered with Avid at my expense, and if that baby is ever lost and then found, say at a pound, I am contacted as the additional contact...I want to know what is happening with my babies, and I want to be sure if the family can not be reached, I will be there to get my baby until the family can be notified. It is ALL about the baby, for the life of that baby.

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A good, reputable breeder would carefully screen potential buyers in the first place, and usually not ever place a pup with a family that isn't a perfect fit; so usually not needing to take the pup back in case something happens. Not every family and personality is a fit for a yorkie; just as not all families and personalities are fit for a great dane. It's up to a responsible breeder to decide if they will sell to a family; not just selling for profit's sake.

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And there have been several instances where I have not continued with the sell. All my buyers and myself have established a solid relationship....and we both want what is best for the baby, and we work closely together to achieve this. We really are like a big extended family.....I can honestly say I love all my buyers, respect and honor them BEFORE we proceed with the relationship/sell.

There are also some bad breeders who participate to....

Show breeders can be bad breeders to. The AKC is the only registry in the us that can guarantee you have a full blooded dog.

Same with us in rescue! :) Once the rescue dog is placed, it never means the foster family is gone from the dog's life forever. If for some reason or another (ie death in the family, etc) the rescue dog comes back to the rescue; it's in the contract. I still stay in contact with all my foster dogs. That's one of the perks of being a foster mom!

I have 3 rescues. It also states in my contract that if I ever need to surrender one of them, I must surrender them to the rescue. The contract from my breeder is like that as well. I just assumed that a clause like that was a standard thing.

you know I can understand that with rescue dogs that if you can no longer care for them they should be returned to the rescue group so I am glad they have that in their contract. But when buying a dog outright if later in life I could not take care of it, I will be the one finding a home for it, not the person I bought it from. If I got the pup free under the condition of returning it if I could not keep that would be a different story, but not one that I bought outright and paid good money for. Guess I would have to address that if I was ever to buy another puppy again.

I do like the breeders trying to maintain contact to keep an eye on long term health issues that do not crop up until later in life, but the three I bought yorkies from never contacted me. It would be a stretch to call the person I bought Lola a breeder and she no longer selling dogs, so I doubt she would want her back. Thankfully I don't think I will ever have to give Lola up, but she is priceless so if I had to there would be a long line to choose from D

and that would be one of those little stipulations that, unless you lied intentionally at the time of purchase, I would feel unable to continue with the sell. The value I place on my babies is not whether the baby costs $3000.00 or if the baby was free, in MY mind, the value of that baby is the fact that it is MY vision of what I thought combining that particular baby's dam/sire, was going to produce. THAT is the value of that baby to me....not what price tag I put on it. People that I am filtering and approving for my babies, are all on the same wave length I am, and they understand exactly how I feel for my babies, why I do the things I do, and why I have the restrictions I have with regards to my babies. They all know, without a shadow of a doubt, my concern is for the babies, for the length of their life, not just until I get the check in the bank. As I said, I make it clear to them, if they have someone in mind that they think will take care of their baby with the same love and attentiveness that they have, all we have to do is discuss it, and I will speak with the person and there more than likely not be a problem. But just because someone thinks they paid good money for the dog, and I am no longer in the picture and that gives them the right to drop it off at the pound or sell it in the newspaper to whoever answers the ad with the money to buy the dog, ....NOT HAPPENING WITH A ROSEHILL BABY!!! Because I can promise you, THAT is the person that will be squealing like a pig under a gate, if 7 years down the road, something develops with that baby! They will assertain I am indeed part of that babys life! They will dad gum be sure that I am held accountable for that baby, whether I should be or not! So, no, buyers do NOT get to "pick and choose" when and for what I am to be included in that babys life! This is well established and there have been no issues...guess because those that do have a problem, are not sold one of my babies....regardless of the price tag!

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ANd I will say my breeders having their name as second contact on the chip -what a relief. Mostly my husband and I travel together. So if something happens to us, at least my breeder gets' notified through the chip. But of course I have emergency contact info on their crates too. Also on our wills our dogs guardianship is laid out, and that in 2 out of 3 pets right now is to the breeders, and one our cat is to a very close friend.

that's why it is great to live in a free country, we get to pick and choose who we buy and sell with. Not every buyer works well with every seller and situations vary. On the same school of thought my sister adopted a baby, if something happens and she can no longer care for that child it is set up that I will become legal guardian. I think it is standard practice that the parent of an adoptive child be given the privileges of selecting the person they feel is best suited to care for the child in case of death or even illness. But yet with some breeders apparently you are not able to make that choice for your pup, ludicrous really.

Well spoken. If I was a purchaser of a Rosehill pup I would feel that my dog would be protected for the life of my dog. I would know that if calamity happened in my life, this breeder would be there for my pup and for me.

I would of course make sure as well as I am able, that we could discuss and work out things together. Especially given the 3000 miles apart:)

I really don't think we should be comparing human babies and canine babies like this. Yes we say we are their mommies, but really when it comes down to it, they are very different.

Gail at least with Razzle you are tight and see the breeder on a regular basis, I am assuming that might be the case with magic, but not many of us stay that close. I am assuming you made that choice because you wanted to not because you were told you had to.

OK so parents are good enough to decide what is right for their skin babies but owner/parents of dogs are not, perhaps you guys see so much of the worst cases your opinion is different from mine, and like I said earlier we all post from our own experiences so I understand that. All I know is I would NEVER give a dog to anyone that I did not feel 100% confident about and I will never buy from a breeder that tells me otherwise, if others choose to to that is their choice

It is part of both contracts -the lifetime return policy; and also keeping my dog fit, obedience titles and a few other things. And other than the titles the same is for all pet owner contracts with these two breeders (as far as I know).

And if I did not want to stay close to those breeders, quite simply I would not have bought a dog from them. If I did not agree with what was in the contract I would not have signed it - and maybe not have been able to buy a dog from them either:)

I think a lot of people who gets dogs sadly see them as disposable and if they don't want to take care of it or can't they sometimes just give it away to whoever not caring who or just drop it at a shelter where it could have a rough life or be put to sleep and good breeders don't want that for there pups that they watched grow in there mommy dogs belly and then watched grow until 12 weeks old and beyond if they are keeping in touch. I think sometimes there are times the breeder can brake the rules like say the owner gets sick and can no longer take the dog but there daughter who the dog knows and is comfortable with and could take care of the dog the breeder would probably say its ok for the daughter to take the dog. The breeder is just trying to avoid the dog going to a non caring owner that will not take care of it and going to a shelter and I think that is AWESOME and in my opinion that is on my list of things that makes a GREAT breeder.

Honestly, I chose my latest pup not so much for the puppy, but for the breeder. I found my breeder before I found the puppy. And I waited for the right puppy from that breeder. I'm probably paying more than the average price for my next Yorkie, but I'm not just paying for the puppy. I'm paying for the relationship with my breeder & everything that comes with that. She didn't specifically tell me that I have to keep in touch with her, but I definitely plan to keep her posted on my puppy's developments. I also know that I can always contact her in the future with issues/concerns about my puppy's health. And I'd think that if anything ever happened to me & I wouldn't be able to take care of little Prima anymore, that I could contact my breeder with the name of an appropriate relative or friend who would be willing to take Prima & she would work with me to see that Prima has a happy, loving home. In fact, I'm fully confident that if I ever did have to return Prima to her breeder, that she would eventually end up in the perfect home of my breeder's choice. I'm all for the "return the puppy to the breeder" clause. It takes a lot of responsibility off of the owner in case of an unfortunate event & assures that the pup will never be forced to set foot in a shelter.

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I like this. It's like an added insurance policy, knowing that your pup will always be taken care of, even if you're not able. I did sign a spay/neuter and relinquishment contract with my breeder, for this very reason.


But honestly, the way some posts have been worded, it comes across like some pets are being rented out or leased and never truly belong to the buyer. I believe, maybe mistakenly, that is where Donna's objections come from. This is strictly my perception, and I do not claim it to be fact.

Of course in the end, it doesn't matter. This thread has already moved so far away from the original question, it's not even funny. I hope the OP makes the best choice for her and the pup and lets us know what her decision is.

It sounds kind of like a puppy flipper...... We got Bella for $600, called the breeder on her registration papers, and the breeder told us she sells her puppies for $350. She was sooooooooooo worth it, but it was extremely frustrating. We asked the breeder not to sell to her again and she said she won't. Just be careful. Bella's story was that they "didn't think she was the dog for them." And the house was a wreck. If anything seems out of place or funky, ask her for a trial period (really, you should do this anyway). Put down a deposit and take her home for a week. Take her to the vet and make sure she is healthy. Then you can see her personality and such. If you like her, keep her. If you don't, then you won't feel tied down to anything. I wish you the best of luck!

-Gabby and Bella

I would just like to say that you should go and see her. If she has all her vet records and you can view them and she seems healthy and you feel in your heart you could love her...then go for it.

We got our Avery at 7 mos old from a couple who had him only two months. They had no papers for him but they did have all his vet records and he was neutered and up-to-date on his vaccinations. They were overwhelmed by a puppy and he was not taken care of very well (matted and very lonely as they both worked long hours). The husband said he had paid "a lot of money" for him and they had already invested a considerable amount in the vet bills so they didn't want to just give him away :\ We offered to give them 1/2 the money they had spent on vet bills (pointing out to them that there were more vet bills to follow with the care and needs of a lifetime) and a little $$$ extra. They decided to let us "adopt" him.

I tell you this story, because we were a bit skeptical also, as there were no "papers" other than vet records (which did show that he was healthy and up-to-date on care and we immediately took him to a vet of our choosing to be sure he was okay) but it turned out wonderfully. We were'nt really interested in him being a show dog or having papers, just that he was healthy. He is SOOO happy and loved now and we don't know what we would do without him now :) He's sweet, smart, lovable and worth every penny we spent on him. Hope it works out well for you and this little one too as it looks like she could use a loving caring home.

This is a very common problem! That was my initial thought, followed rapidly with the "stolen dog" concept....I was happy when the lady offered to go to the vet with you before money had exchanged hands....not for sure she would have done that if she had found that baby and was selling it.....that goes back to the flipping concept....let us know what you decide on the baby....I think once you set eyes on the little dog, it is a done deal! Be sure you get EVERYTHING paperwork wise. that she has on the baby....

I would never try to claim that all people who show their dogs are good breeders. There are some very shady people that show dogs. They may have even gotten their hands on some good stock and had wide success in showing some of their stock. If you go to enough shows you are bound to make a name and get some championships out of it especially if the dogs come from a good line.

However, there are many very good show/breeders that know their stuff and go out of their way to breed only the best, they do their genetic testing and will go the distance in helping their customers. These are the people you want to take the time to seek out and learn from. They know genetics and they really care for the dogs and not just the awards.

I understand being resentful of having a bad experience with a show/breeder but please don't cast dispersions on all show/breeders as being the same. Just as with any endeavor there are always those who are in a particular field for what they can get out of it for themselves. Showing can be very computative and that kind of thing can attract some very self serving people who will take short cuts in order to win. I have encountered some of the hardest people I have ever met in the show world. But I suppose that could be said of BYB's and puppy millers as well.

Whenever one enters into a field they are not familiar with it takes some time and due diligence to be able to sort out who is who in that arena. Having a "name" or being known in the ring is not necessarily a qualification of a good breeder.There are some excellent breeders that belong to YT as well as those belonging to some very excellent dog clubs that are known in the show ring. They have a wealth of knowledge and care very much about their dogs as well as their customers. I feel very strongly about those who really love and respect their breed and who care much more for their breed than the notoriety. I will go the extra mile to support and defend these people because they have made great sacrifices to actually improve the breed that they love and without them the breed would deteriorate into a genetic nightmare. Although these people have gone to great expense to produce wonderful stock a pet owner can usually buy a wonderful puppy from them at a reasonable price.....if they qualify.

I realize this is a bit off topic but I felt some words needed to be said about those who are the backbone of the breed and who have helped to preserve the Yorkshire Terrier and other purebreds as they were originally intended to be.