Have my cake and eat it too?
 

Hello everyone. I am sure those of you who are seasoned Yorker owners will think I am nuts but I am just looking for advice from the "experienced" once again.
Wallee currently uses pee pads in the house however will go outside as well. My problem is, the pad is in a spot in the living room that he kept young to before I used the pads. I steamed the carpet and tried moving the pad closer to the door, but he kept going back to the original spot so I put it back. I leave the pad down and during the day when I am sitting with him if I hear rustling on the pad I will quickly ask him if he wants to go outside and he will go out back with me and go. "Sometimes" he will go to the back door and ask to go out for a poo and I will immediately go out with him. Since he won't eat breakfast and does the majority of his eating at night he usually has to do this within the first half hour of getting up. Today, we went out for almost 20 minutes and all he wanted to do was pick up things on the ground to eat. We go back in and he goes straight to the pad to poo.
I find while I have the pad down that he seems to go there very often, sometimes within 15 minutes of a long walk.
Am I encouraging him to pee more often and confusing him giving him options? He got fixed in Nov. so I was hoping he would slow down on the pee frequency. When I go out, even for 4 hours, I leave down the pad and he doesn't use it. I immediately take him out then and he goes.
He is 9 months old now. Will I ever get him to "prefer" going outside to pee? I let him out any time he asks but find myself standing out there more times than not watching him run around munching on anything he can pick up.
Sorry for such a long winded story, just wanted to paint a clearer picture.

I feel as if I still have so much to learn about this breed and having my family for Christmas next week, I know I will suffer lots of criticism about the pads since they all own dogs and have never used pads. Perhaps I have just been too lazy and not been consistent enough with him, or maybe my gut is right, that he just needs to mature more to go less often.

Well, I think the best idea would be to keep a tight eye on his where abouts (even if you have to tether him to you and/or keep a leash on him). Sounds mean, but you need to catch him before he goes potty and how else other than to keeping vigil. I would just retrain him to potty outdoors. Put him out on leash and say (well, what ever words work for you, but always say the same thing...), like "go potty" or "go pee" (I say, "go quickly"). Take him out at least twice in the morning, twice in the afternoon and twice in the evening (one of them being right before bedtime). Of course it's up to you how many times you decide to take him out, but if he's an adult and he's learning to potty outside (as my new 1 year old yorkie IS...ATM), this is what is working for me. I hope I have been helpful. :)

Hulk came to us pad trained. When we decided it was time to start transitioning him, we left the pads down, and anytime he ventured near them, we took him outside. If he did anything, he was praised and got a treat (we also did the whole "potty time" thing as well). After a few weeks, I got rid of the pad entirely and that's when we started working on the bells to teach him to tell us when he needs to go out.

Oh! And when we stopped using the pads, it became the new spot for his food and water bowl, our trainer told us that if we fed him in that spot, then he won't want to "go" there. Not sure if that might work?

He's very reliable now at 10 mos, but I still treat him like a puppy, he stays confined in the same room as us etc etc. It definitely is a longer process, but eventually you get there.

Oh, and we pulled up our rugs until we knew that they wouldn't be treated as another potty pad :rolleyes:

I don't have a lot of experience either, but that's how we did it and it seems to have worked well.

I would block him from his old spots and watch him like a hawk or crate him when you leave the room. This type of dog I would just take out once every 30 minutes for a couple of weeks during the day IN ADDITION to after a nap, play or grooming session, any intense loving/petting session, good romp, outside walk, after a package arrives, visitors arrive/leave - any intense excitement, meals, as soon as they emerge from the crate, obedience training session - any activity. This gives the dog the sense that whatever urges he's having to potty, he knows he'll soon be going outside where he'll eventually learn that once he pees or pottys, his scent is there for all the world to enjoy! His canine nature wants to do that - leave his mark for the most possible to behold. Once they get this territorial marking in their "yard" idea in their canine psyche, they are very keen to keep updating and overriding that scent with current info. It's natural for a dog to "go" outside and mark his territory to warn other predators. But the pee pads and being allowed to "go" in the house can confuse them and it is warm and comfy there and they can get really confused.

To de-program a dog from going potty in the house, as awful as it is for the appearance of the home, I just put large cardboard boxes or gates up to block them off for getting to their former favorite spots and literally set the clock for every 30 minutes during the day. I give over my life to working with that dog's potty problem. If the dog is asleep, I do forego the schedule and restart it once he awakens and we go out. An instant treat and praise as soon as he goes and if he doesn't, either wait for 2 or 3 hours until he does or bring him inside and DEVOTE yourself to watching for signs he's sniffing the floor, running about with purpose, walking near the edge of the room or anything lying on the floor and whisk him outside again.

Take him to his potty spot and say, "Potty outside" in a matter of fact tone and wait. Treat if he goes, wait if he doesn't but when you do come inside, watch him all of the time. If you have to leave the room, carry him with you, take him on leash or crate him. Then when you are back, out of the crate and outside again. And he just cannot access his old spots at all.

It will wear you out but you will lose some weight this way. Soon that dog will learn that he'll be going out all the time, he'll want to mark his spots outside, knows if he tries to "go" indoors he'll just be told "No" or "uh oh", scooped up and taken out so eventually when he starts to pee/potty inside, he'll instantly realize "oh, I'm about to get taken out" and catch himself, look to you. Take him right out and say "Good boy" on the way. He'll get the message that you know he caught himself before the act and approve.

The 30 minute rule helped me housebreak many a rescue dog and kept me in good shape to boot. After that, I continued confinement when I couldn't watch the dog like a hawk or took them with me and watched them in the new room but eventually that schedule breaks down the most stubborn house-pee'er and he starts to know that if he tries to go inside, I'm there scooping him up or herding him outside so he just begins to stop even trying and comes to me to "tell" me he needs to go out. "Telling" usually involves prolonged staring at you as they stand before you, going in fast circles, looking a lot at the door outside or going to the door and looking at you, then at the door then at you over and over. Some come and put their paws up on your lap, look you right in the face! That's when you know your hard work and aching legs and back have paid off. He's learned going out is what we do now and let's get on with it, Mom, is the new norm.

I'd put something over the original spot, so he can't get to it....and end table, plant stand, decorative tin filled with something heavy so it can't be moved....whatever it takes so he can't get to his previous spot. It may look a lil weird in your living room...but so what..you're in training mode!

ZoE does the same thing. Some days, I can be gone all day & she doesn't use her pad. I think it's because she sleeps while I'm gone, and just like how they can hold it through the night when they sleep, they can do the same in the day when they sleep. I also think she likes to "hold it" so she can pee while I'm home, so I see it & she gets a treat!

To anyone that even hints as an issue with the fact that my dog is pad trained, I ask them if they, from the minute they leave the house for work in the morning, until they arrive home in the evening do not use the restroom??? How would they feel if they were never allowed...no matter how much they drank, or what they ate, or how upset their tummy felt on any given day. Admittedly, I ask the question with an honest tone of derision & disgust, because that is truly how I feel about people that subject their animals to that.

When I leave home, I almost always leave pee pads down for Tibbe and did for Jilly. They just didn't/won't hardly ever use them and prefer to hold it apparently until they can go outside. But that is canine nature that once they learn how they think something should be, they want it to be that way no matter what. Of course, in my part-time job I had after I got Tibbe, I HAVE gone all day without going and driven to work and home 45 mins. each way so I know it can be done! Course I didn't even have time to eat but a bite or two either and maybe a few sips of coke or water.

I don't think Jilly or now Tibbe would eat or drink much when I was away. I always came home to full or near-full bowls when I was working and I think in time they learn to just sleep and do a little guardwork during the day but apparently don't chose to visit the kitchen much if at all. I guess they are smart enough to know when mommie is gone, it is overall best to nap and save all the eating, drinking and pottying for when she comes home where possible. And the vets say that is okay - that dogs can fast quite a while safely and do in the wild quite often.

When I had to go to the ER and be admitted and stay in the hospital, I was I guess irrationally terribly concerned Tibbe would hold it until he was ill. But he didn't. My son got to my house the next day and said Tibbe had used the potty pads and then gone on the floor around them but hadn't eaten/drunk much at all. So apparently when I'm not here, my dogs Jilly and now Tibbe go on an austerity program of caloric/fluid intake except just enough to get by and so finally go when they just have to. That gave me intense relief to know Tibbe would go in the house if he had to in case of emergency. My son took Tibbe to his home for the duration of the rest of my stay so I was relieved in that. Danny said Tibbe did use the potty pad at his house while he was at work. Once Tibbe was back home, he resume his old potty habits of only going outside.

When Tibbe is at the vet, he apparently hardly eats or drinks or potties either unless taken outside from what they tell me. So they get so habituated to their routine, it is very hard for them to break it except when they just have to. So getting home to that little dog to let him out as soon as work lets out was always a priority when I worked and then I would go to the store or out to dinner.

Housebreaking a dog to go outside doesn't mean he never gets to go inside should his person be away a long time but it does mean they want to hold it and not go inside unless they absolutely have to. I doubt any dog would hold his potty or urine until he made himself actually ill and can't think of ever reading that a dog did that but perhaps one might. Mine haven't done that. My sister has always had dogs and she's never had that problem either.

Thanks so much for the wonderful advice. I am going to start the 30 minute thing today. He is a pretty good boy and usually always looks to me for direction even when he steps onto the pad. I am usually in the same room as him as he is only allowed in one end of the house, however I will be opening the gate and having him follow me into the bathroom or bedroom when I go there so I can always keep my eye on him. I am pretty sure that when we get him completely "outside" trained in the cold weather he won't be going so often. I will work hard over the next few days and keep you all posted.

This is a suggestion to help you get through Christmas when your family is visiting - have you ever tried using a belly band? In case you aren't familiar with them, they are a stretchy piece of fabric that has velcro on the ends. You line it with a sanitary pad and put it around their waist, closing it with the velcro. This will "catch" any accidents in the house so you can remove the wee wee pads while you have company. It only catches urine, but that might help get you through the day while people are visiting. They may criticize your methods, but just tell them it's just there for "insurance" since there is so much going on that day you might miss his signals when he needs to go out.

Thanks for another wonderful suggestion. I plan on keeping a very close eye on him since he is used to only being with my husband , 4 cats and myself. If I feel he is becoming overwhelmed by all the people I may give him a little time out here and there in the safety of his crate in my bedroom away from all the action.

When Gracie was a puppy I had a puppy pad in a frame in the bedroom and by the back door. When she was about 6 months old I decided to eliminate the one in the bedroom. I caught her peeing there twice so I put the pad back and started moving it s-l-o-w-y toward the other pad area. It took several days of moving it just a few inches at a time. Once I finally got it there I was able to eliminate it......again. They are creatures of habit. Maybe someone knows a quicker way of doing this but it worked for me and I had enough patience to see it through.

We did pretty good all day. I managed to keep his pad dry for the entire day by taking him out as soon as he went anywhere near it or every half hour during play time....but....now we have a very nasty rain storm with high cold winds and he takes one look outside and runs away from the door...sigh...so, he used the pad twice already tonight...He is napping now so will try him outside again when he wakes before we go to bed for the night.

Have you cleaned the area where the pad is with a good enzyme cleaner? If he smells anything there it will draw him back to that spot even though you put a clean pad elsewhere.

Hi Charlene. Thank you for asking, yes, I have used the enzyme cleaner and steam cleaned. I also then sprayed the area with a no repeat marking spray. I am sure that it has been my bad
parenting that has allowed him to keep using the pads for so long. I need to keep focused and be more consistent. Losing my job last month really put my mind into a bit of a whirlwind and I know has caused me to let my duties slide a bit.

Oh, I hated bad rain during housebreaking! But believe it or not, once he's really all attuned to going outside and wants to mark out there, he'll go out in the worst of the worst storms. It can be just flooding and the rain coming down so hard Tibbe gets drenched inside 15 seconds and though he'll balk at the door from the sheets coming off the porch, eventually he'll pick his way around the thickest of streams and go on out! I feel so sorry for him but he WILL NOT use a pee pad inside in cases like that. I've tried, taken him to it, said all the right things and even put one on the front porch and taken him out there and he won't use them. He'll just wait until the urge is so bad he can't hold it any more and then out the goes. So he gets big, big praises and a kibble treat or two when he comes back in soaked to the skin. I keep a hair dryer on the Utility Porch to dry him off. But that 30 minute habituation training is what did it when I first got him. He was 9 mos. old and kennel-crazy and all he knew was pottying in his kennel so I just took him out so often he couldn't help but eventually go outside, get big rewards and praises for it and kept being taken out all the time. He finally decided outside peeing and pottying was IT with a capital "I" and boy, he'll sure pester me to go out now when he needs to even when I don't want to move off the couch. He'll bark me out until I get up and let him out.

So hang in there and even during rainy times when you lose a little ground, you can pick up your schedule when the weather is nicer again. It's nice to have a dog with tidy house habits but I do put pads down for him when I leave. The only time he's used one though was when I was in the hospital that night. I'd really feel better if he would use one when I'm gone for over 4 hours! He just won't though. He's definitely an outside kind of guy in the pee/potty department!

Why not just crate him in a cozy comfy space and have him be in the same room as you all...until you've pottied him? Then he can run around and play with guests for a little while till you crate him again... The crate helps his already matured bladder "hold it" till he's been asked if he wants to go potty. I totally disagree with what you are suggesting...unless something is wrong with his bladder and you don't have time to deal with it cus of so many xmas guests. It's a cope out...even under the best of intentions. Sorry, but c'mon!!!! I can't be the only one astounded by this comment. When we choose to have a puppy we essentially choose the "consequences" of having to take the time to deal with their training and potty needs. You offered a solution to help her not worry about urine on the floor and/or having to anticipate her dogs' need to go out to potty, yes? I suppose I'm never going to be this open minded (when it takes 3 minutes to put the dog out). :thumbdown

I appreciate all the kind tips and advice given here. That is the reason I bring my questions here to the forum. While everyone has their own way of dealing with training issues I remain pretty open minded to suggestions. I will of course follow some and disregard the ones that will not work for me. That does not say that I disagree with anyone and I certainly will not disrespect or publically put down their advice. I am more than willing to let Wallee out as often as necessary. I normally go outside with him every time as well so that I can see if he has indeed done his business. He is pretty good so far and we don't have any accidents in the house. I am really just looking for ways to wean him from his pads.
Thank you all once again for your assortment of great ideas.

I forgother to mention, our biggest frustration with him going outside is his desire to bug to go out many times just to route around the yard looking for bits of leaves/moss/grass to munch on. During those episodes I spend the entire time telling him NO, Drop it then finally get frustrated and take him back in. I swear we are outside at least 25 times a day on top of his walk twice a day.:rolleyes:

Haha, look how smart he is! He knows how to get your undivided attention. This is going to turn into a (tho cute...) horrible HABIT. Time to take his training backwards to his younger months...and hopefully you pottied on leash. If not, it's now TIME. Leash him and take him out each and every time. Those times that he's outside unleashed he can see the difference between time to play and time to eliminate. If he walks you all over your yard, he's not getting it. It takes a few seconds to eliminate. I'd consider finding a few words to repeat to him each time you take him out for the task of pottying him. I like to say, "Go quickly", or "Go peepee". Say what ever you're comfortable with and stand in ONE SPOT. let him walk all around you and be patient... It's a waiting game. He's smart and he'll get it. He'll get and try to "unget it" too...to try and redirect you, but you need to have some boundaries with him so he can become an easy dog to take out. (Just my opinion of course). Keep treats in your pocket when you do this and the second he eliminates...say "YES, good boy!!!" and pop one of those suckers into his mouth. How happy a game is THIS...he'll love going out and showing you what a good boy he is for one of those tasty babies. ;)

I believe you are right on the going back to the leash thing. :( It took me months to get my husband to totally escape proof the yard so I could let him outside without a leash but I can see how the little monster has taken advantage of that and learned that I cannot run as far as him. Sometimes he will even follow me to the door after seeing then "bolt" back to the backyard so he can stay out and munch on things. Even sometimes his favourite treats won't bring him in.......sigh....back to the drawing board..

It's not really as bad as "back to the drawing board", honestly. He has a wonderfully safe yard and that's awesome for when he wants to play... Look at it as tho it's a new training task for him to be able to "perform". Like a "sit"...or a "down". I use it for when I want to go for leash walks with my dogs. I don't want to have to pick up after them so I potty them first. they get their business out of the way and off we go. Here in Canada there's a ton of snow (already) and kids like to play in it, especially the high peaks that develop over time on the side of the road that the snowplow created...if I let my dog pee (yellow snow...), I'm going to piss off a few neighbors with young kids. I don't want to be that neighbor. See...? There ARE reasons to teach your dog to pee on command. I can list a ton more...but I'm sure you get the jest of it. :aimeeyork

Oh man. I remember the first rain storm show down with Hulk. I KNEW he had to go, but there were no more potty pads. I took him out, stood in the rain, he just looked at me with those sad little eyes. Back and forth back and forth. Finally, it was time for bed, still raining. Desperate, I grabbed a potty pad and tried to get him to go there. No dice.

In the end, I stood out there in rain gear and waited him out. Luckily it wasn't a *heavy* rain storm, but it worked! He got lots of treats and happy dances.

The cold weather hasn't been as big of a problem as the rain, I find in the cold he dashes out and dashes in (have to watch him to make sure he takes care of all business before dashing in, tho :rolleyes:).

It sounds like you're on the right track. It's easy to get a little relaxed....because it is a lot of work, but it's worth it in the long run. And don't worry, you'll get there. Some days it feels like it'll never happen, but it does :)

Thank you everyone for believing in me. I had a puppy years ago that was so easy to potty train. I am sure that it had a lot to do with being much younger and with no stresses and so fewer options available. (There were no crates and no pee pads). I got that puppy when we were living in an apt and he was confined to the kitchen with newspapers. The day we moved into the house and I confined him to the kitchen he realized there was a door there to the outside and started asking to go out right away. The rest was history and he was only 5 months old then. He remained confined when we were at work untilnhe was 1 and we never looked back.
I had such great intentions with this little one and thought with so many resources and determination that this would be a cake walk. I ended up having surgery within the first week of getting him and recently I lost my job and now with the Christmas season upon us which is a dreadful reminder of my oldest son being deceased, and the overwhelming amount of information out there I have probably let my own emotions get in the way of training this guy the right way.
Today I am making myself get wrapping done, praying the rain lets up so I can walk Wallee and have blocked off the place the pad used to be in the living room and moved the pad almost to the door. I will be watching him like a hawk and if I can't, the gates will go up and he will go into the kitchen. I will take him out VERY VERY frequently and pray that we make a little progress today. Since we only have 4 days till we cook for a big crowd, I will be happy if we at least get the pad removed permanently from the living room and the idea in his head that outside is where it needs to happen. The treat bag of liver snacks is right by the door for reward EVERY TIME he pottys outside today.
Wish me luck.

Yep! They do figure that out in a hurry. I just give in and go with it. Eventually, they do get done with that and stop "lying" about needing to go outside. That's another plus in going ahead and taking them out so frequently, they barely have time to need to falsify a "need" to go out as they are out on schedule again anyway. That two weeks of all those visits is just what I find works well for me and the dogs I've trained as once they are trained and that frequent going outside is established, it's ingrained in their heads that outside is the "it" place to leave your pee and poo where the world can be impressed so they hold with that training very, very well. There are so many ways to successfully housebreak a dog and as long as you are watchful of them and consistent, just about anything will work once they learn what it is you want of them. Good luck!

I am very proud of this little guy today. We managed to make it through an entire day potting outside. There were many trips outside (he even went out in the rain), an hour long walk and a short stint in the kitchen as we came in soaked from the wet grass. He helped me wrap presents and came running back inside every time I called him and handed him a treat. I move his new snoozer seat to the place in the living room where the pad normally was and he has been sleeping in it. I even treated him to some boiled chicken for supper for being such a good boy. He is totally conked out now on the couch beside me however he and I will be making one more stop out back on our way to bed.
Sweet little soul, I think he is going to get this quick. He even lost another molar today and I thought they were already all gone.
I think he (and I) will sleep well tonight and be ready for day 2 tomorrow.

Wallee is doing good!!!!!!!!!! I'm proud of him, too!

Hi have two babies. A five year old trained to potty outside, and learned very fast. My nine month: old girl was trained on pads inside. Transitioning her to outside was very difficult too. She would do the same, goes back to her spot in the corner of kitchen eating area. Kids said its gross, so tried taking it away and put her outside to potty. She would just go outside to play and explore. Not to potty. I find her having accidents on little rugs around house. Put a framed potty elsewhere, and she won't use it. So I take her out to potty every 30 minutes too. I think she's got it down now, but not so sure. I know its so frustrating at times!

I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say GOOD LUCK! You have success on your side too cus dogs will always learn new things at any age...no matter when you start training. They're little sponges. Also, be happy he's a tiny little yorkie and not a big G I G A N T I C great dane...(little dog, little mess). Try not to stress you'll do great! Happy holidays :)

Uh oh...Wallee had an "oopsie". Mommy's fault. We have been doing great all day and mommy accidentally dozed off. Wallee has been eating snow all day and he was napping beside mommy and she dozed off. When she woke uo Wallee was sniffing under the Xmas tree and started to pee. Mommy said uh uh and quickly jumped up and took him outside. He immediately finished what he needed to do and mommy cleaned with the enzyme cleaner.....We are not out of the woods yet. ;)

My babies hate bad weather so for those days we keep pads in the garage:p works great for us lol.