Wnalegria!! You are so correct. I too as an experienced breeder also got suck for thousands of dollars recently because I took the breeders word! I ended up with a lovely Yorkie but one which could not be bred because of a gentic condition. Everything must be in writting!

What if the breeder ONLY sells on spay/neuter contracts. The male must be neutered anyway right! Why should the breeder deduct this cost for a non life threatening condition. Especially if the condition is revealed before the sale.

Thank you Susan. I try my best :) always willing to make improvements as needed too.

I just figured out that out of the 21 pups I have placed a total of 9 pups with families that have bought from me before. The others are still single pup families :)
I am truly proud of the reputation I've established.

Irene

What a great thread, and a perfect opp for me to post on this...I have a problem with impulse puppy buyers. I don't like to place a pup in these situations and I won't to the best of my knowledge. They see a cute yorkie and bam! they want one now!
Usually in a situation like that, they havent done their research and have no clue all that is involved with caring for a dog. The problem is that some people can slip right through this and you won't even catch it.

Example: I placed a pup ealiar this yr that was a replacement pup to me for a boy I had that passed away. My breeder stood behind her end and gave me a replacement. However, the replacement was not to my liking as far as putting this paticular dog into my program. Health wasn't an issue, there were just some faults I did not want. Didnt mean the pup didnt deserve a great life...So i placed it with a family who had been in contact with me for some time. I felt that this family knew what they really wanted as they had been asking about a puppy for quite some time. After some time with no complaints on their end, i felt this all worked out for the best..

I got a phone call few days ago, left on my answering maching, saying that they "weren't real happy with the dog" and that they would like to know if there was any way i could "change" their limited reg so that they could sell the dog. (why they would want this done is beyond me at this time) Mistake number one in my book is the admission of wanting to sale this puppy. I have called them several times now and have not been able to get an answer or another call back. VERY STRANGE.
They signed a contract with me stating that this puppy was not being sold to them for re-sale purposes.That if they could not keep this dog for any reason throughout it's life that it would be returned to me. Of course I can't change the reg for them and even if i could heck no i wouldnt! But now I am faced with the fact that I feel they do intend to sale this puppy after having it for several months. My main concern for any puppy that I place is to know for sure that it is in good hands and that it is being taken care of by someone who truly wants it. What would you do? Would you stand behind the contract and order them to hand this puppy back over to you? This could result in a small claims suit, which I am in no state of mind to deal with at this paticular time...in any other situation i would be there with bells on if it were for the protection of a dog. My main concern here is for the well being of this puppy. I want to know that it is with good people who will love and care for it. I dont understand them calling me, leaving me that message (which i saved) and then not being able to contact them back. I also have a problem with the statement "we're not not real happy with the dog" because this leads me to think that if they aren't happy with it, that it may not be being treated as it should. Does this make sense to anyone?

So, is this an en-forcable part of a puppy contract? What steps should be taken now? I have a few ideas of my own, but i'm up for any of your input.

Good God! That's NOT what I'm talking about! There are breeders out there that do not use spay/neuter contracts, buy a male and it's testicles never drop. I know of someone that this happened to recently and she doesn't know how to approach the breeder.

Robbie,

I am so sorry you got 'the call'. If this happend to me I would say send me all the info on this puppy. Size, recent pics, price they would like to get for the pupy and if it's housebroke. I would then take it upon myself to find it a replacement home. I could handle one of my puppies going to someone i know NOTHING about. I would tell the current owners to leave it up to you and you will find a home.

Good luck!
Irene

I would think if you wanted to avoid this you would need to include something like, 'cannot guarantee that puppy will be of standards considered appropriate for breeding as an adult'...or something like that? :confused:

**Type o...I meant couldn't

I forgot that you weren't around when I posted this thread...hence the referrence to the earmites and mange...

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...lthy+guarantee

Oh Then that's a whole different problem. I was only talking about placing pet/companion puppies. Of course a dog sold for breeding or show purposes should be guaranteed by the breeder to perform to the contract specifics. Breedability is different if the dog was sold with full breeding rights. It all depends on what the breeders contract stated at the time of purchase. Sorry I didn't understand your question initially.

Irene, that is exactly the reason for my "right of first refusal" in my contract. If someone cannot keep one of my puppies for any reason, I want the right to take it back into my care and find it a suitable home. These people read and understood this and signed it. I don't understand their way of thinking now. Do they think I am just a push over or that I dont care one way or other what happend to this yorkie? Thats what i think they must be thinking which couldnt be farther from the truth. I would love to have the size, recent pics and all the info, however I have not been able to make contact with them since their intitial phone call to me. I do have their address. I was thinking of driving to their home myself this week. It's so frustrating. And I'm going through so much as it is, I really felt even WORSE when I got that call because I immediately started worrying over this paticular puppy now. If I could just speak with them or get them to call me back I would remind them to read their contract and that it will be left up to me to place this puppy again. I find it very odd that they called me and left the message and when I return their call, I can't get anyone on the phone or by email. Really makes me wonder what is going on here...

That is just awful. Awful!! It's pretty clear this guarantee is absoluely "no guarantee". It's one thing to be an uneducated breeder but what's worst IMO is an uneducated buyer. I don't mean to be cruel but again at what point so we stop protecting people from themselves and their stupidity. Please do not flame me. A breeders job is a hard one. I am sadden beyond belief when I see trash (the human type) such as this on the internet. Trash ?? sorry I just couldn't think of another word at this time. I surely wish there was a way to "rescue" these poor unfortunate animals.

Well I have that same clause whatever works right?

If you are like me than you are worried sick about that poor puppy being in a home where he's nolonger wanted what a HORRIBLE feeling. I had someone return a puppy to me because he was not what he wanted looks wise. I knew he was being cared for but not being wanted and being away from me broke my heart. He was returned to me a couple days later. Poor little fella. He's in a home with a pup he grew up wiht from another litter so his was truly a happy ending. But the stress!!!

(((hugs)))
Irene

I paid the difference between a regular alter and the more complicated surgery because I felt that I had a obligation to do so. Remember this was not a puppy that I bred but one that I purchased. I still had an obligation even with full disclosure

I am not a breeder (yet) nor do I play one of tv. But, I would like to say this even if I have no business in this thread. I do intend to be a responsible breeder in a few years. When I purchased my little maleCeeby, I had looked high and low for a dog with erect ears. I had found one that was already eight or nine months old near my home. He was proced reasonable and within my budget. Only problem his ears had never come up. Seller said he thought it was because he had ear mites as a pup. WELLLLLL, to make a long story short, I jumped on YT and asked you guys about this and most of you, nearly ten to one, stated that the floppy ears was a genetic problem. The rest of you said it was debatable. So based on your advice, I passed that little man up. i didn't want to start my program with a dog with a genetic problem that would be passed on to my pups. I have seen ears come up several weeks after people get their dogs from the breeder. They don't all go up by six weeks. So, my question is why shouldn't it be covered in warranty? Ceeby's ears were erect at six weeks when I picked him up. All his parents and grandparents were on site. They all had erect ears. Now, if I had gotten him home and they had flopped down, it would have been my responsibility to trim them and tape them. But if they were never up and i thought I was buying a dog for breeding purposes with no genetic defects, I would have been highly pi$%$$ at the breeder after learning on here that most of you think it is a genetic defect. Pet only, it wouldn't matter to me but breeding program foundation, it means a lot.

i meant to say at six weeks when I picked him out and paid my deposit. I picked him UP at eight and a half weeks old. Ya'll have to excuse my typos and etc tonight. It is hard to type with a furball in your arms.

Once again I was speaking for placing a pet/companion Yorkie. Whether the ears are up or down is NOT a health issue for a pet. But it is a BIG problem if you are purchasing a dog to breed. The two issues are very different. The two issues have two entirely different contracts. AND usually there is a huge difference in price of a pet/companion verus a breeding/show dog. Again if I am placing a pet...then I do not guarantee the ears to come up or stay up. Altho most of the time my Yorkies ears do come up and stay errect. A dog sold under a breeding contract is a whole different thing. Hey we ARE dealing with genetics after all what would you have breeders do with their floppy ear puppies? Not all ears do come up naturally. Even after 5 generations I still have a puppy ocassionly who's ears are floppy. Even Yorkies with floppy ears deserve loving forever homes. Again I thought we were speaking and discussing HEALTH issues. Please somebody help me. I can converse on both topics.

YES if you purchased your Yorkie on a BREEDING contract then you have every right to expect the ears to be errect.

Sorry to have confused you. I am just now learning all this stuff. I wasn't even aware that there are separate contracts. Thankfully, my breeder is very experienced and knowledgable. She knew I was looking for a male to breed. I bet you have wonderful puppies. I am now actively searching for a female. I have learned so much on here that i hope I know how to pick the right one now. I just wish some of you gals lived closer to me so I could buy from one of you. You are right, yorkies with floppy ears do deserve wonderful homes and they are cute. Just not for me. But I am sure if it accidently happened or Ceeby's go down when teething and don't come back up, I won't love him any less. He is my forever baby now no matter what. I would mjust have to have him neutered and try again for a breeder. Again, sorry if you thought I was off topic. The floppy ears things people were posting just kind of jumped out at me. Didn't mean to cause trouble by my question.

If you are looking for sound breeding quality or show you will need to wait till 6 months or so to have ears guaranteed..at least 6 months if not more. If not, then you run the risk of buying something that ends up not show/breeding quality and you will have to place it as a pet and start over..something I've done several times. They didn't force me to buy the puppy.

Hey don't be sorry. I think this thread was started as a learning tool for breeders and buyers alike. But here's another tip you should not evaluate breeding stock at 8 or even 12 weeks. You should wait until the dog/bitch is at least 6 months old. And another thing about droopy ears. I NEVER tape ears. I do keep them shaven and clean. But I want to SEE what the genetics are therefore I never tape or prop the ears in any way. If they turn out to be droopy or floppy then so be it! They are then destined to become much loved pets. I placed a 6 month old Yorkie girl last week who had floppy ears. I placed her for a reduced price because of her ears. This young woman was absolutely delighted and instantly in love with this Yorkie. She had looked and looked for months for a healthy Yorkie she could afford. She had even post-poned her wedding while she was saving money for her YORKIE. I told her about the ears ahead of time and the only question she asked was "does she look like a Yorkie". LOL It was a match made in heaven for this young woman and for my floppy eared gal!

My feeling is they shouldn't be covered because they do not threaten the dog's health and well-being...only it's look. That would be like giving a guarantee on the type of coat the dog will have as an adult. You say because it's genetic? Every aspect of a dog is genetic. Every physical characteristic that a dog developes is due to genetics. There should never be a reason to blame the breeder (if he/she is a GOOD breeder) because as the potential owner, you should take responsibility for learning the aspects and characteristics of a dog you plan to breed. If ears concern you that much, look for a dog that is older--to a point that if the ears are ever going to stand up, they are doing so. Of course you don't get a young puppy, but how are you supposed to be able to tell what the dog will physically look like when it gets older? Would you blame the breeder if the dog didn't have the coat coloring you wanted as an adult? I would hope not. To me, it is along the same line.

Of course i wouldn't blame the breeder about the coat. That is just the gene pool and the luck of the draw. i was only repeating the stuff about the ears being genetic because of what has been posted here. Did you read my entire pst? I knew nothing except what i had read on here and I knew I wanted a yorkie with erect ears. I saw parents, grandparents, siblings when I went to purchase Ceeby. The breeder was selling two litters at the same. When I first went to pick him out and pay my deposit, every single one of those pups had erect ears except Ceeby had one that about halfway flopped. I asked if his ear would come up and she said," yes it will and if it doesn't I will give you your deposit back because I know you want erect ears." I was purchasing a dog with erect ears. When I went back on the day he came home, both ears were up and so far have stayed up. I don't think he is teething yet and I do expect them to go down during that time but I also know that this time, it is MY reasponsibility to work with them to get them to go back up. Who knows? I may be one of the lucky ones and his ears may stay up.

Of course I read your entire post...otherwise I wouldn't have replied... :confused: I wasn't trying to start an argument...just explaining why I do not think ears--or coat, color, etc--should be covered under the health guarantee. :)

Good points. What I'm not understanding, however, is how the ear not standing is genetic. NOW, LET ME SAY FIRST...that I can understand an ear not standing because the leather is large and fat thus too heavy to stand. You should be able to tell on a pup if it's ears are flat against it's head, no, they PROBABLY will not ever stand. Now, that, I can see is genetics but you'd be able to see that when purchasing a pup.

HOWEVER, unless you were buying a pup for showing (which you'd do when they were much older), or for breeding (and it is stated in the contract) then ears should be covered.

It is not life threatening nor will is lesson the quality of life. That's the same as saying a low tail set should be covered. That is totally unheard of. Unless it is specifically a show dog or breeding and is stated in the sales contract, it should not be covered.

I would like to say. I suspect standing ears, low tail sets, coat color/type will become a ever looming larger problem in the future. From the sampling of posts I'm seeing here many buyers are getting educated on what they expect their Yorkie to "look" like when it matures. From the sample posts here and on other threads I am seeing buyers who are EXPECTING a well bred YORKSHIRE TERRIER. One which looks like the breed standard when mature. I am so happy to see such requirements/expectations being asked by the pet searchers. This can only be GOOD for the breed as a whole. Regardless of the recent threads opposing "breed standards", a breed standard is still our blue print for what the dog should look and Act like. I think some of these questions prove that point! HooRay for all of you who are taking the time to research and become educated before you acquire a Yorkie.

But for the purpose of this discussion it's is the health issues we are discussing. The other "faults" have no bearing on the health of the dog. But I for one am happy to see these questions being asked.

Should or shouldn't...pls re-read and verify.

Thanks :thumbup:

just adding in my two cents...

My guarantee is 10 days full refund no questions asked, barring injury from abuse or neglect. Sometimes, things just aren't as expected or other pets don't adjust or whatever, and I would much prefer the pup come back to me asap.
One year covered on any health related genetic problems, with $ to pay related vet bills up to the purchase price of the pup. I just don't understand how anyone would want a 'replacement' puppy offered by most breeders, though it is an option up to the buyer on my contract. I do not cover LP, because that can be environmental, but would be willing to cover that if vets felt it was not injury related.
Lifetime return is required if the purchaser ever chooses to relinquish the pup.
It is my understanding that down-ears are a genetic fault.
I have only sold one pup with breeding rights to someone I am mentoring.
If I ever had a boy with undescended testicles, I would certainly compensate for the difference in neuter fees.
okay, maybe it was 20 cents worth...

Haha Stacy, don't worry about you 20 cents..I've already given about a buck fifty.. :D

Health is most important but I have to say that down ears can also be unrealted to genetics. For example, I have been battling with one of my Biewers girl's ears to stand. I know that down ears is not in these genes. I have 5 litter mates from 2 different litters. I also have seen the other siblings and the parents. All have erect ears. Lovetta is the female who's ear has been a struggle. I have been gluing her ear up all this time and she just turned 10 months. Guess what.. that darn ear is FINALLY up!!! It's been staying up for the past 2 wks but I still glue it for reinforcement. This is quite mystery, her ears are perfect not too big, not heavy leather and I've kept the hair off. Must have been because she's teething. There was a time I was going ot just let it go but I couldnt stand to look at it..lolol.. It wasn't floppy, it appeared flimsey flipping up and down but not staying up all the time.

I have seen this happen with pups that have left my home with perky ears and then flop later on. I educate the new owners on how to glue them up. Some prefer them flippy others do the glue and it works. So I tend to disagree that flipply/floppy ears are always genetic.

I think it's great that pet owners are doing their homework and are being selective in what they want. So refreshing!!!

EXCELLENT!!!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: