Tail docking
 

Sense I learned some awesome information when I posted about dew claws I thought I would ask about tails. Besides it being the standard is there any health reason to docking tails or any other reason for docking tails?

none that I know of...just the standard

Same here...none that I know of except it being the Standard. Brody has a natural, undocked tail...I love it...wish Mia did.

But, I am with you...I too wonder why and how it started. I have never seen anything about it's origin in any of my research or reading material. I even wondered if it was initially due to injury in a working show dog...or to prevent injury, and was either considered 'cute' and continued, or if maybe a dog that had lost its tail won and everyone else just 'copied' the look, hoping to increase their chances of winning, too. I'm weird..I know...I am VERY curious of the reason, though.

Thank you for this thread. Maybe some knowledgeable person will enlighten the rest of us.

{Hugs}

Since Yorkies carry their tail out in back rather than curled protectively over the back and it is a thin tail, even at its base, in the early days of the breed they were apparently often injured via laceration/fracture/frostbite and animal bites on them as the dogs engaged in rough play and generally pursued their activities around the farms and mills of the area where they were developed as a breed. Homes/farms of old often had many large dogs, cats and other critters living on the property with the small Yorkie, as well as plenty of rough people and the little dogs frequently lived outside and slept in barns, even in the coldest spells of weather. There were few fences than so they dogs would run where they wished and get into whatever trouble was available.

Today, the dogs are no less prey-driven to chase anything running from them through whatever lawn furniture, child's bicycle, small openings or other barriers might be in the way and are still as impulsive as they were back then. Though they aren't chasing rats through snaggled wooden barn walls, they do find troubles for their undocked tails from time to time due to its size and carriage.

Still, I think the reason most breeders dock/have them docked is to conform to the standard and for the compact look of the dog.

I personally prefer the look and convenience of an undocked tail, not ever having to worry about Tibbe getting his caught in the door or things like that, terriers being the impulsive creatures that they are.

I've also read that they were used in (illegal, betting games and) rat killing contests with other dogs...and they can be extremely vicious, fighting to the death. Have you heard of that? Do you think that might explain some tail docking, too?

Yes, whatever their active pursuits that put their thin little tails at risk, it was decided it was easier on the dogs overall to remove the things that could lead to injury and infection(a big problem before antibiotics) early on in the infant pups' lives. Vets weren't exactly sitting on every corner back then so folks did what they could to reduce the risks to their dogs' health and lives.

Thank you for the info. It seemed logical, and I figured the practice probably had a genuine purpose originally. Docking just to change the way the dog looked didn't make as much sense. These are very different times for Yorkies than back when the breed was being developed.

The times were different but the dogs have stayed about the same in all but appearance, as they have shrunken in size and gotten shorter muzzles, etc. Their temperament probably hasn't changed a whit when you read the description of what some of those early dogs were like. Tibbe is still very like that - as were my first two.

Oh yes...I completely believe that. They are terriers through and through...even my Yorkie-Poo, who got mostly that terrier mentality...only dog who ever routinely 'snubbed' me if he didn't get what he wanted...lol It was the Yorkie mentality and mannerisms I fell in love with first...the looks served to seal the deal. Yorkies are awsome!!! I am so happy to have these two now...Brody and Mia...my owners! :D

Most dog breeds were developed not to be a prized pet, but to do a job and help humans. Yorkies were ratters and worked in coal mines. The miners put them in a tunnel and the Yorkie would kill the rats that lived in the tunnels. The docked tail was use to pull them out of a tunnel, a long thin tail could be too easily broken so they docked them and cut off the skinny tips. If breeders stopped docking tails, some Yorkies would have no problem, but those Yorkies with small bones might be more likely to break their tails. While docking is prohibited in England, working dogs are exempt from the no docking rule.

navillusc, you're correct, they were also used in ratting contests, with the dog killing the most rats, the winner. The AKC has recently developed earthdog games and the rats are now in cages, and all the Yorkies have to do is find them, no killing is involved.

I did not know that...very interesting. The way mine scour every scent out of the yard when they go out, I think they would love that game. Thank you for the info...learned something else new today. :D

In the distant past, tails were docked for safety reasons - since yorkies were ratters etcetera.

Now, it's bc of a standard. However, it's banned in places all over the world, here is a link: Docking (dog) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Interesting to note that even in Colombia where people are killed for drugs every day, tail docking was banned bc it's "Considered unnecessary, painful, cruel and mutilation".

My personal wish is that docking would cease; it's the right thing to do (imo) and it's part of their body. If it didn't belong on their body, evolution would have taken care of it. We shouldn't amputate animals' body parts bc of a standard that we, as humans, created in the first place :(.

Pfeiffer has a full tail and it's just gorgeous! A poof of expression for her.

We've had tail docking threads in the past that got very, very heated bc people do feel passionate about it on both sides. Hopefully, this one will stay only lukewarm or cooler. :)

I am enjoying hearing about the tails and learning. I was also wondering if there is a certain length it is supposed to be docked to? The reason I ask this is Callie's is not a full tail but seams docked longer then any I have seen.

I hope it doesn't turn bad. I figured sense I got some awesome info on the dew claws I might as well ask about the tails sense it was another thing I really didn't know much about.

It was just this past August that Yorkies became eligible to to participate, here's more information on the Earthdog Trials. American Kennel Club - Earthdog

Lucy's not docked. Docking is banned in most countries except the US.

I love Lucy's tail. I know when she's underfoot when her tail beats against a cabinet or wall. :)

Tail Docking is not banned in Canada ... Yet. How-ever many breed clubs have been asked to review their standard and consider allowing undocked tails or docked tails in the ring.

My preference is that it should remain breeders choice to dock or not.

I beleive in tail docking.
After watching Elvis the dictionary definitiin of a lap dog go after a mouse under the kitchen sink between pipes and through the cobstruction mess yeah I see why yorkies get docked tails.

My mini schnauzer has the first three verts very strong and the ones that get docked off well they are known to easily break in mini schnauzers a breed specifically bred to have a tail used as a handle to support the weight ofbut the entire body of a stocky lil dog.

Long tails are beautiful too.

I have personal experiences with tail injuries no good at all.

I also beleive in ear cropping in breeds it was needed. I wish I had known what I know now and would have had Princess's ears cropped instead of asking her breeder not to. Constant yeast infestions in them and a lot if extra grooming time she doesn't love.

I know in Europe mini schnauzer breeders are trying to reverse the laws on no tail docking and no ear cropping-based on medical need and proff if incidents of later more painful longer recovery medical emergency dockings.

We have had threads about this before as Ann said. Docking is not an option if you want to show your Yorkie. Some of us have been active in trying to promote a full tail. We want Yorkie Club of America to change the standard to docked or undocked. Then after a few years undocked will be the preferred standard. Eventually the goal is to have undocked tails be the standard. It is my personal opinion that ears should not be cropped, tails should not docked. I still think dew claws should be removed they do get caught during grooming quite often.

That is so awesome! I knew about Earthdog, but last I checked, Yorkies were not allowed. I didn't undertand why they wouldn't be, considering their 'bred' purpose. Just awesome...thank you or the info. I am hoping to see some Yorkies on TV participating in Earthdog or something. We don't have much close to me...agility a couple times a year.

I know, it's perfect for Yorkies. The YTCA has been working for a while to get the accepted, but I'm not sure what they had to do to show Yorkies should be eligible.

I would think the Yorkie would do very well at earthdog trials! Hope you can enter one somewhere near you soon.

I am not really for nor against it as a whole. Personally. I don't like docking. But I understand why breeders want the right to choose.

But I think to say that a yorkie has the potential to go after a mouse and break their tail and using that as an excuse as to why tail docking is the best option... is like saying "the chance of my yorkie jumping off the couch and breaking it's leg probably will happen in it's life time... so I'm going to amputate it's legs". May be extreme but it's just how I feel. To use what MAY happen as a reason for docking... just seems a bit silly. Lots of things can happen, but we don't prematurely get rid of it. However if a dog is working around vermin all day, as a working dog, then YES I do understand. As the chances are going to much higher for injury than a pet dog.

I can understand why some prefer the look of a docked tail as well. I have no issues with people who have a preference!

I am not sure I necessarily agree with the banning of tail docking... because then what ELSE are they going to control? Ya know? But it still doesn't mean I like it :p

:thumbup: I am always in favor of choice! I would hope a 'natural' tail would not be a DQ in the show ring...but should it be a 'fault' either, I wonder...don't know if it is either or not...I do not show...just like to watch! :p I do not see why the Standard wouldn't/couldn't be expanded to define a natural tail, either, for those who choose it, although it would change the overall 'look' of the dog. However, the docked tail length has already been defined in the current Standard, as has been the way the tail is carried, if I am understanding it correctly. This is by no means an 'emotional' subject for me...neither is dew claw removal, ear cropping, etc...merely a matter of interest...something I'd like to more fully understand the reasoning behind the action. If there are logical reasons, perhaps these things 'should' be done...if not, why do them? :D

Human boys are circumcised every hour of every day all over the world because one day one of them may get an infection. Same principle for those that believe in every ounce of prevention they can get for their dog. I'm genuinely one of those - I'm a born worry wart. Every thing I can do to prevent illness or injury that is considered a negligible procedure at the time it is done in the earliest infancy, is far worth it to me over the chance of injury. That is my honest first reason for wanting tails docked, dew claws removed. I have no other axe to grind about hiding my reasons. Truly. And I am not shy about it!

Aesthetically, I prefer a docked tail Yorkshire Terrier but also enjoy the look of the tail, though I'll admit it kind of worries me to see one. Can't help it - I'm that type when it comes to a dog. There have always been others like me over the years or they never would have begun docking tails/dews as a preventative measure. Tibbe is no different from Yorkies of old - given the chance he would chase prey through, under, around, over, under whatever was in his way to get to it - tail and other dangling parts be darned - and I know that about him and other Yorkies - which is why I'm glad he has lesser trailing parts to injure.

I know some don't believe it or cannot accept it, but from the days of old to the present many people do worry about whatever the small incidence of injury there is and consider it unacceptable if there is anything at all that can be done early on to prevent it. And, thankfully, there is! I, and all those others before me, am among those that believe in any potential early injury prevention step we can take. It's the same reason I rushed myself out to get a swine flu vaccine a few years back. I knew my chances as a healthy person of getting it in a country this size with so few relative cases were miniscule, but I didn't want any risk if there was one small thing I could do to cut down on the worry. Silly or not to some, that is how many feel and have felt for generations about tail docking. Sometimes when one cannot accept others' positions as being genuine and heartfelt, no matter what they say or how often they say it, maybe an opening up and tolerating that view or belief that they might not understand as meritorious could be considered.

They the amorphous "they" are going to try to ban a whole lot of other things as well.

For me; with the Blackies ie BRT's, I had a long tailed female, and my docked male. That tail on a big dog added another 12-18" of length. Porr girl in a city home, when she would come to the door to greet me, her tail going a mile a minute. It would knock into each wall. Bang, Bang, thump, thump. I winced! Not being used to long tail beasties, I quickly learned to take everything off side tables, coffee tables, etc.

We also don't know how the "standard" should be for a natural tail, it has only been 5yrs since most of Europed "banned" the docking. We are in the same situation as all breed clubs. Asked to revise a standard, but having not one clue as to what length, carriage, etc the undocked tail should be.

For me as a matter of practicality with the large breeds and quite honestly I love the dock tail look, I am in favor of allowing docking or not.

And yes for guard and protect breeds there is a practical reason. That tail can be used against the dog in a serious situation. It provides a convenient hold that the human aggressor can use against the dog.

Actually the result of banning docking tails in some countries has dramatically increased injuries to those undocked tails. I know some breeders in Germany that are disgusted with the ban.
The Yorkie tail left natural is very long and thin and therefore certainly has the increased potential to injury even wagging a tail in a crate.
Then there is the yorkie that doesn't want to carry its tail up at all, it will be dragging that full tail along behind it like a kid pulling a sleigh.

I guess the outlying question is, if we left all tails undocked, say 10 yrs down the road, would that tail thicken up? It is not only a Yorkie question, but an all breed kind of question, where historically we have docked tails.

No, that's not the way evolution works, breeders would have to choose those dogs with a thicker tail and breed them. In the wild, it could happen, because those with a thick tail would have an advantage. A dog with a broken tail, couldn't get food for a while. Joey and Ralphie are approximately the same size, Joey being a few ounces bigger, but Ralphie has much bigger bones and teeth. My guess is that Ralphies teeth are twice the size of Joeys, and his docked tail is much thicker than Joey's docked tail. Breeders would be wise to start taking the tail into consideration when choosing traits to breed, that's why I hope this evolves slowly and breeders are given a choice. I am concerned about the reports of broken tails in some countries, and I hear that it's extremely painful, and often full amputation of the tail has to be done. So for me, this is a little like “A stitch in time, saves nine.” Visually, I think they are adorable each way.

What breed is Princess?