This Question Has Been Nagging at Me.
 

Ok I have been a member here for a while and have wanted to ask this since I first joined. I have been reading the breeder referel section and it came to my mind again. First let me say I am all for buying from reputable breeders and doing all we can to shut down puppy mills, but my question is....aren't there show breeders who also keep their dogs in Kennels? I know when we were younger and had poms for our babies we bought them from a wonderful lady who raised and showed her dogs and she had a Kennel. Albeit a very nice airconditioned, and heated one with seperate area's for each of her 4 dams and sires. Each had their own doggie doors with large covered runs etc. The place was emaculate. That all being said don't some Show breeders also have kennels and are considered respectable? I know Anita loved her dogs and was very proud of her lines and they were absolutely beautiful well behaved puppies.

Some do keep their dogs in kennels & cages with only breaks during the day & I personally would not buy from a breeder that keeps their dogs caged most of the time as it is inhumane to me.

Oh I don't mean caged. Where we bought ours from each dog had a 10x10 seperate area and as I mentioned before their own runs.

I used a cage for housebreaking or when I had to leave him too Tibbe's first year but I am talking about the breeders who keep their dogs in kennels or cages 24/7 except for breaks to exercise & out a hour or two in the evenings. I don't think that is a quality life for a dog.

I completely agree with you about that.

Not right for the dogs.

Louise

I think it takes a lot more then just being a show breeder to be a good breeder. I would never buy a pup from someone who didn't raise the pups in the house as well as many other things.

:thumbup: I have to agree with this. I think measuring a good breeder sometimes is a case by case thing. You can get a show breeder who has her dogs kenneled for hours, I wouldn't buy from her. You could also get a BYB who has 20+ dogs living in her home, but her home is in a bad condition. I wouldn't buy from her either.. I try to judge a breeder on their individual merit instead of painting everyone with the same brush

Yes, there are many people who show their dogs that keep them in kennels. Many of these people are big time into breeding and have several dams and sires that they keep separated in kennels. Personally, I don't care for that type of thing. I think a dog is a very social animal that should be allowed to live a good life with a loving family. Obviously others think of them more as a business. There are show breeders that keep their dogs in excellent condition in kennels and are considered respectable breeders.

A puppy mill is a filthy disgusting operation where dogs live out their lives in small filthy cages and never see the light of day or even get out for exercise. The people who run these places will place any pet quality dog with any other pet quality dog in order to produce puppies. They care nothing about the genetic defects they are producing in the puppies or the horrible physical condition they are in when they take them away from their mother's at 5 to 6 weeks of age.

When my kids were young my husband and I traveled several hundred miles to another state to purchase a Yellow Lab from a well respected show/breeder who was well known for both the conformation and the wonderful personalities of her dogs. I had no idea until we got there just how big of an operation she had. Their dogs were truly beautiful and they had a huge facility. They must have had at least 10 labs in the house plus I have no idea how many in kennels. She had 4 litters of Labs! I could hardly believe my eyes! The woman was well organized though. She knew exactly which puppy was from which parents and what quality they were. We ended up buying a gorgeous little yellow boy that grew up to be the love of our family for many years.

I would never buy a small dog from an operation that big though. Breeders that are trying to establish a line and are breeding for a specific type do need to have several males and females to accomplish their goal. Some have partners so they don't have to house that many dogs. Some people just don't want to share their line and things get out of hand.

Did those Labs spend the most of their day in the kennels at that breeder's facility?

I bought from a backyard breeder...I didn't know at the time, so dont jump on me please. She had 10 dogs, including two puppies and her home was immaculate. The dogs were never caged/crated, they had full run of the house. She loved all her babies....would i buy from her again ..no, not knowing what i now know. She does no heatlth testing and they are not registered. Thankfully the two I got from her are healthy so far, so i Lucked out. She and I still keep in touch, she likes to hear that the pups are still healthy, but she had no idea of the genetics in her lines, and that is how i wound up with a teapot.
Dont get me wrong I love both babies to death, but had i known then what i know now, she would never have gotten a dime from me.

I would have to agree with some of the comments posted. My personnel preference is for in home raised puppies, and in home kept adult dogs. You can create runs and separate exercise areas for the males and females; no problem. But for many breeds of dogs (not all by the way), they belong in the house, where they will end up living the rest of the life with their future owners.

And as others have said, I would take the show breeder who had "kennels" on a case by case basis.

Personally I hate to see any dog kenneled outside although I understand that some would be quite messy inside. My dad when we were young raised plot coon dogs for hunting and no matter how clean he kept them they had an odor I wouldnt want in my home lol.

I think keeping a dog, whatever its size or breed, in a kennel as its living quarters is inhumane, however wonderful the puppies produced from the breeders or however much they bettered the breed. I left many a fine operation when I saw they had so many dogs they couldn't keep them in the home or, for larger dogs, out in the back yard a lot, though still living the life of a valued family member spending a lot of time inside with its people. Why have so many dogs they can't run & play out in the yard or house like a real family pet should? Having more dogs than you can handle as pets seems less like the dog is a pet & more a commodity - a means to an end.

I think probably some of the dogs did stay in kennels a good deal of the time. They had large exercise areas and many of her dogs lived in the house with her and her husband. The puppies were in the basement of the house that was fully equipped to care for them. I had never seen so many dogs in one place. They had a large amount of property and a huge house but people who raise dogs have to kennel them in order to keep them from mating. It is the sad nature of the business. I don't think I would ever buy from a place like that again.!
It upsets me that it is some of the AKC show/breeders that are stopping legislation to control and contain puppy mills because they are afraid of the legislation effecting them also. I can certainly understand why after visiting that place. The dogs were all well kept but there were just too many of them!

FWIW.... I had a dog from a backyard breeder. = Lots of Vet bill$$$. And he died at a young age. Pups were never in a kennel. The Breeder I have a deposit on my pup now. She keeps her puppy's in a Pen/ kennel with a puppy cam. Inside of course.Cleans the cage at least once a day. She only keeps Dams and they have full run of the house. Or I should say limited run. Some areas are penned of when they aren't home they aren't allowed in some areas. Pups get time out of the pen. I'm talking newborn and under 12week pups. So I can watch the pups all day if I want. The dams get a medical check up before breeding as well at the Stud she picks.
She only breed 1-2 dams once a year. And only breeds them max one time. She breeds for herself to show. I was so surprised how good these dogs are pups adults ect. very socialized. So not all breeders are bad. But she bred a few Nation Champions so I believe she's care about the health of the breed. But I believe there are probably more bad breeders than good. Just need to be selective. JMO/JME

I know that at least some so-called reputable breeder/dog show people where I live have many of their breeder dogs and show dogs actually use their large kennels as living quarters & not the home setting or back yard for larger dogs. The dogs cannot come & go inside/outside at will or ask to be let in or out because they actually reside in the kennels mostly & are exercised on a schedule & mostly get to spend time with the family a portion of the day, then back to the kennel - except for a favored dog or dogs that are treated differently & basically live with the family as the other mostly-kenneled dogs look on. During show season, travel & all of the preparations & backstage work associated with shows can involve a great deal of crate time. Basically, the dogs I'm speaking about do not live the life of a regular pet as a member of the family until they are retired, and then some go on to other kennel type living. I suspect this situation is not just reserved for the breeders/show dogs of North Texas. It seems the dogs used in this manner are existing mainly to breed to pass along and/or show their fine qualities in the ring. I cannot purchase a puppy or dog from a place like that, knowing how many of their dogs live much of their lives.

The lady I mentioned in my post took turns with her dams and sires and took them into the house to be with her at times so I really feel she cared about her little ones but she did breed for show and I guess that in its own way is a business and has to be looked at as such no matter how much they love their furkids. I personally would want mine inside with me all the time but can see how this could be hard. She also only bred hers every other year and they were ALWAYS well groomed and cared for. You could tell they were well loved by the way they reacted to her.

My father didn't keep his in a kennel all the time they had free roam of a very large farm alot of the time which now I know would not be safe but I am not young so times were very different then. We kids (all 7 of us) played with them daily so they were very much pets. But I understand where you are coming from. Oh and they were also working dogs because in the era I was raised in we ate a lot of wild meat. :).

I don't think it's bad to keep them in a kennel. Yorkies indoors of course. As long as they get alot of exercise and People time. None of her dogs barked...once we were welcomed into the house. Squirmed when were held them and did nothing that wasn't funny of happy in attitude. JMO

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Having a hard time with the pics
Must just be tired dunno

So when it wasn't there turn they had to sit in a kennel outside? Sounds sad to me.

That is true but I know Laddy has to stay in his kennel when we are away do seperation anxiety he claws the woodwork up so I do know that he absolutely knows he is king when we are here. I don't work now so its rare he is kenneled but when I worked it was the only choice we had as our little houdini escaped every other enclosure lol. His kennel of course was in his bedroom in our home so yes I know that is a little different. Oh and as I said before the kennels were not the wire crates we see they were a building that was as nice as some homes with their own spaces.

I would suspect that many of the AKC show breeders use their dogs as a business. Sadly, the bigger and more established a kennel is the more kennels are necessary. A dog that has lived in a kennel most of it's life cannot easily be re-homed. The larger breeds would be very difficult to try to train after being a kennel dog for so long. The idea of using animals for profit or even hobby to the point that they are no longer a loved family member indicates a real hardening of the heart to me. When I used to show my Himalayan cats I met many breeders who did the same type of thing to their cats. They were more concerned about winning than about their animal's emotional welfare. So there are drawbacks in many areas of the breeding of show prospect animals. It is just too easy to collect too many animals after a period of time and then run into problems finding homes for the animals that are no longer part of the breeding program. I'm not saying that it cannot be done properly but it is the nature of a breeding program to eventually be overrun with animals if not handled properly. People with a winning established line want to continue the line and that means some of the animals are not necessary anymore. It requires a business aspect that I could not find acceptable. I'm a pet lover. Can't think of pets as only part of a business. Obviously, there are many people that do though.

Depends. If were are still talking about small dogs like Yorkies. They should always be inside. But large dogs in Kennels that are ways from the elements on acreage. As long as they get to run most of the day and interact with ppl. Just sleep there at night. IMO better than being confined in a small house no yard no room to run??? JMO

I was speaking only to breeders & show people with excellent credentials in the dog fancy who have dogs in kennels as their living quarters. No problem in putting a dog to bed for the night in its kennel with proper temp control & shelter in bad weather - but I believe that if you are keeping a dog in even an immaculate, lovely 14-20 foot kennel in a wonderfully temperature-controlled building with the best food & water & bring it out for only a portion of the day, it is not living a dog's best life - that of a beloved family member with all of the fun & human interaction that goes with.

Dogs are such social family members - want to be in on the action going on with their people mostly. Big dogs love the outside but the majority of them, even the biggest & toughest, want to be with their humans most of the time, given the choice. Why should small dogs usually get to spend great time with their humans and not big dogs? Why are they chosen for kennel life so often? Usually because people have too many big dogs to keep in the house much. Same with some breeder/show people of small dogs. They have too many to comfortably keep as true pets.

Of course there are outliers - dogs that prefer to stay outside a good deal of the time & one can debate what goes on there with some of them, but for the most, dogs want to be with humans and in on the activities of the family. And I too am a firm believer that most small dogs should be house-dogs & only outside for periods of time. But I don't think just because a dog is large or any-size breed-/show-quality dog, it is fine for breeder/show people to house them in kennels as their living quarters. That's no way for a dog to have to live.

I'm not against kennels I'm just against the dog being in them all the time. Callie sleeps in a soft sided crate at night and she loves it its her cave and nice and comfy. Still seems sad most dogs really need human attention and personally I think yorkies need more then most dogs. Callie gets very very depressed if she is not with a human mostly me and getting enough attention and I'm not talking being carried around and babied all the time but just normal pet here, sitting on my feet, or on my lap or next to me.

I agree with what you are saying mine are the same way. I just don't know if we would be fortunate enough to have our babies though if we didn't have breeders who cannot house all their dogs in their homes and treat them all like we do ours. I cannot imagine my life without my beloved yorkies. I know our little rescue may she rip was a breeder her whole life and she was the sweetest most adorable baby ever but only a few times in the years we had her did we see her wag her little tail and she played with Laddy but she never was one who played with us like the little ones we have raised now. It was heartbreaking but at least we gave her all the love she could ask for in her last few years.

We might not have the perfect/near-perfect dogs without those type breeder/showers but I personally don't think it is worth it to make some dogs pay that kind of price so that their puppies & the puppies' progeny can have the good life.

I agree dogs need to part of your human pack. Need attention. FWIW I had a Pom. and a Yorkie at the sametime. They had free roam. But I took them places in there small crate. Each had one. The Yorkie hated it. The Pom loved it. He use to get car sick unless he was in the crate. So when I started leaving for a few hrs. I would put him in the crate. He felt safer when home alone with out ppl. Didn't get anxious. Someones always how so never more than a few hours. Some dogs like it. Feel safer. Don't feel the need to protect the house. My point is I'm for crates at a young age. for a few hours. Or pens with a potty area. Not not 24-7.