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We already practice NILF but maybe this will help keep Ringo in check as well. |
Great advice given here, I may have to try myself. My Josie is the little miss pants in my pack. I do keep her little butt under control and I do correct her. The biggest thing is the little dog bone biscuits. She likes to hid them around the house and if Jack gets near she attacks him. Poor Jack sometimes he is just walking past an area and she nails him. I do the ack, ack at her and she knows she is wrong cause she usually will go over and try to lick Jack in the face. This past week-end she attacked at him and this time I could not figure out what the deal was. I had threw the harnesses and leashes over in a basket the day before(normally they have a place I hang them) and he just walked over to the basket and I didnt see what exactly happened but Jack took off squeeling and hollaring and Josie ran back over to the basket. She got a major ack ack and was put in time out. I then turned the basket over trying to find the treat and nothing there. So the only thing I could figure out was she thought he was going after her harness since it was the one most visable. That one really puzzled me. I sure hope you can find some of the other posters advice can help and look forward to hearing if it does. |
Thank you to all the trainers on here!!! This is invaluable information....working with a dog that has been professionally trained is nothing short of wonderous....I so envy all the knowledge you have about dog instincts and psychology....I have known about the putting them on their side or back....I didnt know...or have forgotten!!!....the "jaws" on the scruff of the neck....the walks together but with separate people....soooooo much great info!!! Thanks! |
Gwenni is the instigator of such things at my house. I am a huge fan of what I call a time out. Any time Gwenni attacks Finnigan she's immediately scolded and taken from the room. We have her sit in her "quiet area" and then bring her back after Finnigan has calmed down. I only had to do this 3 times and all attacks have stopped. She still growls and nips at him from time to time, but she hasn't attacked him since Christmas 2010 I think. |
I would go to Stilwell's site, find a Positively trainer near you, and hire them. I wouldn't give her the chance to attack even if that means separating, leashing, kenneling, etc. Then a trainer can show you how to train while keeping him safe. It does not sound like he is nw. Ir you could learn from her book, but that may be a bit more difficult. |
I agree, great info. But also keep in mind that each pup is different and what works for one may not work for another (not talking about professional training). You find what works with each pup through trial and error. |
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Since Maggie's attacks have gotten more frequent, I have been studying her body language and can usually tell when she is about to attack. I was downstairs when she attacked this morning. From what I can see she will usually stare at him for a few seconds before she attacks. I've been trying to watch her at the times when I think she is going to attack and try to divert her attention or start telling her NO. Unfortunately, most of the time, I don't have much warning. We were visiting friends the other day and he was behind my legs to get away from the other two dogs and she attacked him. I never saw her coming, I thought she was playing with the other dogs. The reason he was hiding is one of the other males was trying to hump him and had his penis out and Buster wanted no part of that. I know showing attention to him while she is getting attention is one thing that will set her off. Anyway, I'm going to try the advice I've been given and try to stop the attacks. I also want to contact the trainers in Rosenberg. In the last month or so, she has been attacking almost every day. |
I know - great info! I really never thought of the hands on the neck thing - though I've watched enough Victoria AND Cesar that I should have remembered something like that. As I read everyone's posts and think this through ~ it also comes to me that Lucy is the instigator at times. She always tries to get between me and Ringo if I'm petting him or showing him any attention. She tries to bite his nose and paws at his face. For this - he is incredibly patient. But then, for no reason, he'll get that gleam in his eye . . . |
I also like the Kiss-E collar & other items that cover the Yorkie's body & head, such a a raincoat or Halloween costume - even Service Vest with a little weight in each side. Something that slightly inhibits the dog's movements & tends to settle some dogs. Even a Thunder shirt. Combine that with the human adaptation of the little clasp with no malice in it & it might work when you see her beginning to alert/obsess. Don't lift her up by the scruff or shake her, just the emotionless clasp together with eye contact on your way to her & on your way away. See if it works. Good luck! |
Nothing in Life is Free Nothing in Life is Free My advice is to start with this. Yorkietalkjilly and others gave you some good advice. Consider getting a professional if you can. If you feel overwhelmed or truly worried that they will hurt each other. We can give you general advice, but a in home visit from a professional is better. In your home, we can study body posture, tail, ears, lips, licking, etc.. We can observe and find out what triggers aggression with your dog(s). We do start retraining with Nothing in Life is Free. We also use time outs, the Enough Nip which is using the fingers to tap or mimic a bite on the neck. The Enough Nip only works before they get teeth on each other, not during a fight. If a real fight happens, you can pick them up by the scruff of the neck, but I have been accidently bitten doing this. I suggest instead picking the aggressive dog up by the back legs. Try to grab them as close to the body as possible, that is less stressful on their knees. I have never been bitten doing this (thirty plus years). Give the cue word Enough, stomp your feet, then grab the back legs and with your thumbs facing you, not the dogs belly and simply lift your arms up toward the sky. Don't pull or drag the dog toward you. When this is done correctly, it looks like a coach calling a touch down. Practice with a pillow, will help make this natural response. Hope this helps, Teresa |
Sorry for some reason this part did not post above. I love the idea of the soft cone collar, it would certainly discourage fighting. If your dogs do draw blood, remember bites and puncture wounds get infected easily. You need to have your vet check bites that break the skin. Many Vets prescribe antibotics. |
I'll just throw out some more thoughts for what they are worth. You might try putting a furry costume with headpiece that covers/protects the little victim's ears & body during the training also. The thickness can protect & possibly deter your fighter. It may add some confidence & sense of protection to the other dog. It may not work at all but just try it & see what effect this has on each dog during this training period. Some desensitization training of your fighter to your other dog getting affection is also in order. Exercise your little fighter with a good walk or game of fetch so she's really good & tired. Be sure she hasn't eaten or had treats for at least 4 hours. Have someone loving & petting her little victim from a distance as you are distracting your little fighter with a high-value treat. Don't feed it to her at first - just hold it in your closed fist & bring it very near her nose & slowly start to open your hand to expose a bit of the, warm, delicious-smelling boiled chicken. Run that fist all around her, causing her to turn & dance around and if she starts to watch the petting going on across the room, open that hand quickly - but don't let her get that food - just show it & re-distract her. That's it. Only about 30 seconds the first time & then tell that person to stop petting & walk away, taking the other little dog with him, as your fighter will want to go over & smell all that scent from the person on its proposed victim. It could cause her to become jealous & attack then. I would wait a bit then rub a washcloth over your little fighter, getting her scent all on it, crate or have someone hold her or leash her & then go rub that washcloth all over your other dog, which is still out of the room & only then re-introduce it without fanfare yourself, with a bag of chicken treats attached to your waistband, open at the top & have your helper follow you into the room, the helper coming over & sitting down beside your fighter, gently petting her this time. Sort of rustle the treat bag as you come into the room with the other dog & your helper following. WATCH your little fighter as all settle in & use another piece of bait chicken from the treat bag to keep your fighter from showing renewed interest in the other dog until a little time more has past. Keep that treat bag with you at all times - actually on your person. Your dog will tend to watch & obsess over YOU, not the other dog just due to that. Later, repeat the exercise - keeping it very short & sweet at first & then letting each session get a bit longer as your little fighter starts to associate all that petting & loving of her usual victim with the pleasure of warm boiled chicken! After she gets pretty good at not paying attention to the loving across the room, reward her with the actual chicken to show her that there is a real reward tied to the other dog's getting attention as she stays away from it. The key here is not to hurry this training. Don't flood her with it but do be consistent with it about 3 times a day at first - then you can increase the training episodes' length. Over time she should come to associate that dog's petting/loving with good things & not want to agrees, especially as she learns aggressing involves mommie giving her consistent discipline. If after a while you begin to say "chicken" when you offer the fist full of treat, later, if you sense/see tenseness in the air or body language showing alerting, just say "chicken" & see if the little aggressor won't come running toward you - not her living chew toy. Of course, you can use any word you want when you offer the closed fist of food but later, just the word should detract enough & start the dog away from an alert or fight. Praise & reward her ANY time she stops alerting on the other dog & turns away - that's a big, big step she's taken & should get her a nice, genuine praise & nice treat. It's a lot of trouble to take but this method has worked very effectively with some dogs & it sure beats all the trouble & tension & agrees from escalating fights so it is worth it. Combined with the gentle discipline, it can retrain & teach your little fighter that you are in control, only you run things & you are going to keep order. Also, try moving the dogs' beds to different places, change the food bowl positions in the room - anything you can to show that things are changing around your place. It will be your intention to keep your fighter out of her usual patterns during which she developed some bad, bad habits as you employ the NILIF methods for all her other needs & activities. Those are just some scatter-shooting thoughts to think about & possibly try. I also like Victoria Stillwell's methods of training. Almost anything but intimidation, cruelty & fear can work to redirect/retrain a dog if you put your mind to it, go slowly but stay loving, gentle, persistent & patient. |
Jeanie there is a behaviorist in Sugarland. I have always heard really good things about her. One of our foster pups went there....the foster parents were very happy and it did help the pup. Here is her website: Texas Veterinary Behavior Services |
I think a professional trainer is the way to go as you've been having this problem for quite a while now. I do want to warn about two methods: The hand/claw on the neck can be very effective when done correctly, but when you touch a dog that is already escalating to zone 10, odds are it will turn and bite your hand. So timing is critical. The second method is putting a dog on it's side or back and forcing it to stay there. This is also called the 'Alpha Roll' .... from an earlier post: The 'holding down' is a form of the 'Alpha Roll' and should never be done to puppies or young dogs. It was developed by professional trainers to be used by professional trainers on severely aggressive dogs, after all alternative methods of training have been tried and failed. The 'Alpha Roll' would then be tried, only as a last attempt to save the dog from being PTS. When it is used on younger dogs and puppies, it can have adverse effects and actually make them worse aggressors, or the opposite can occur and their spirits can be broken, and they end up being fearful, cowering, hiding under the bed messes, which then need to be retrained to begin trusting humans again. I will say some members have gotten 'lucky' using this method, and I just want to say here that it was intended to be used only once. Repeated use will not improve matters and may cause the adverse reactions mentioned above, or worse. From: Alpha roll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Monks of New Skete, The (2002). How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend. Little, Brown & Company. ISBN 0-316-61000-3. "In the original edition of this book, we recommended a technique we termed "the alpha-wolf rollover"...We no longer recommend this technique and strongly discourage its use to our clients.... The conditions in which it might be used effectively are simply too risky and demanding for the average dog owner; there are other ways of dealing with problem behavior that are much safer and, in the long run, just as effective." What will stop her is to put a leash on her and sit with both dogs on the floor and wait for her to give the signal that she's going to attack. If you miss the signal, stop her from touching Buster by stopping her with the leash. Get her back to you and tell her to sit and put your body between her and Buster, blocking her sight of him. Walk towards her so she has to move back. This body language makes her see you as the boss. When she calms down, sit down and wait for the next time. Do not provide triggers to make her react. No petting of both dogs or just Buster... this is teasing. Let it happen naturally. Once you stop her physically, the mental part will kick in and she'll begin to think before she does it again. Work on getting the timing just right, give a very firm 'Ah, Ah' when you see her thinking about Buster. Sometimes that alone will stop her... I've also seen it provoke an attack. If it provokes an attack, do the verbal correction a few seconds sooner the next time. Stop giving treats for her to hide. Peek a Boo does this also and hides treats in his bed in the bedroom. He will challenge the other 3 for their treats until he collects them all, then he will attack anyone that enters the bedroom. He stopped doing this when I stopped giving him treats. Now I give him Cheerios, which he'll eat right away. This is a process, meaning it will take time. But it will work. Peek was worse at night in bed. I slept with a leash on him, but still couldn't totally stop him. Now, sadly, he does not sleep in my bed at night. But this is what works for him, and keeps everyone else safe. Once you effectively stop her attacks a few times, you should see a change in her behavior... attacks will be fewer and futher apart. Eventually, when the verbal interupt stops her, you can work with her without the leash, but keep it handy, you may need to put it back on for a bit. Yorkies are smart and will try you. |
Thank you for all of this valuable information. Cedric has been a lil aggressive (no biting just verbal, warning growling) with Lola when hes around his bones or when she wants to sit with us all. Last night he growled at her and I growled at him in almost the same manor just seconds after and it worked. Lola was able to join us on the couch with no further growls or aggression. I have told my husband this is how we will handle this so we are in tune!! This really worked and I'm exicted because with Cedric I know it's his treats he worried about he growls even when the cat walks by....LOL and they could careless what treat he has..I believe it is because Princess used to steal all of this treats so hes very protective. Thanks again everyone!!!!! |
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Just some thoughts about various training methods of this problem, for what they are worth. All who train successfully have their own approaches & reasons for them. That is why it is good to read everything & use what best fits you & your dog. Personally, I have a different approach to kjc from lessons I've learned. I don't care to actually train the attack behavior problems OP describes on the leash as many dogs are quick to acquiesce to behavior modification training when leashed, but smartie's that they are, once off lead, all that learning & model behavior can quickly vanish. Humans want to gain control of a dog who is acting like an alpha in the family by reminding that dog that the human is the leader using things the dog naturally understands & accepts in all circumstances, even unrestrained, due to nature's laws of canine hierarchy. It is especially important in fighting since the dog is usually throwing caution to the wind & just reacting to instinctive behavior of self-preservation, usually the strongest instinct an animal has. If the dog, however, instinctively knows to react appropriately to canine natural hierarchy laws from the beginning, before he feels the need to self-preserve, helped along by a canine or human "alpha" leader, then those more instinctive messages, taught while unrestrained & under his own self-control, will likely better keep him from aggressing over the long haul & not lessons learned while temporarily restrained - whose fix can be temporary itself or shorter-lived, in some trainers' experience. Others say restraint training of fighting dogs works very well for them. It can depend on the trainer & the dog. That's why various methods can work. The control I like to teach most dogs from the beginning is that of the natural canine teaching/discipline method which doesn't involve leashes or pens or shock collars - things like that, when a dog is alerting/obsessing, fighting another dog. If you watch a group of dogs that live together in the wild or feral groups & one begins to behave improperly, one of the alpha dogs will just send a look or walk over and administer discipline, teaching that dog that that behavior is improper. It is in a dog's DNA to usually react to the social order of its pack family structure & accept discipline of this type quite naturally from a leader. It is the leadership & physical involvement of the leader that dog reacts to & the reason it backs off, because it is instinctive for him to do so. I've personally found that one gains more lasting control of fighting dogs from the natural, unrestrained approach of gentle discipline/anti-aggression training as they tend to have fewer rates of recidivism when later unrestrained by leashes or pens. Those are just my thoughts on attack behavior modification for small to medium dogs that a person might want to try before seeking out a pro. But each person has to assess what seems best for them & their dog. Some cannot afford a professional trainer or it didn't help & thus the dog and its victims may go without help until it has to be rehomed or sheltered elsewhere if they don't make an effort. Training Yorkies not to fight for a healthy adult who isn't immune-compromised or ill is usually not dangerous to at least try but you could be bitten, as you know. I don't recommend this method for use on big, powerful dogs. I always say, almost any humane method of training can work if you & your dog are comfortable with it & you administer it gently, with love, persistence & a load of patience throughout the life of the healthy dog. |
Jeanie, you might like reading the books written by Tamar Geller: The Loved World Foundation by Tamar Geller - Home |
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Push to the edge Just want everyone to know that some yorkies will push you to the edge. They are wonderously smart but must be brought up by a firm hand with guidance and love. You must show them who is the pack leader and play dominant in every scenario. Agh, Agh are the words to signify NO. Put them on their back and hold them till they go calm for 15 minutes a day. Also, you have to do lots of time outs like putting them in a crate with the front to the wall for every consequence until they understand that this is not appropriate behavior. :) |
Give them equal attention. You can hold them together, pet them together, soothe them together and if it starts crate them and make a loud noise to stop the behavior. |
What area are you in. I know you can't be on top of them all the time and she is seriously jealous, enough to attack. I would not feel comfortable with them together so separate them all the time unless you can solve it. Some dogs do not have good chemistry with each other and as a responsible pet owner you have to recognize this and do something about it. |
I have a friend that lives in Katy and I trained her yorkie. |
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You may want to ask yor vet if there is something that he can hive hour little one for anxiety. I ask a friend of mine who has lit Maltese who has behavior issues and a bit aggressive. That with training may help |
Consistent reprimand and training is the only answer. NO DRUGS. |
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