Confused

[Britster]

Speaking of bad breeders, I've been dealing with family members who choose dogs that can often be plagued by health problems and they choose to go to bad breeders. It's amazing to me sometimes that no matter what you say, how nice you say it, and how much you tell them you've researched, people simply don't care. It does make me wonder sometimes, CAN it really be stopped? I don't think it ever will. Drugs are illegal, people will still always sell them and do them. I won't take part in it, but doesn't mean others are not. I don't know. It's so difficult.

My grandma is getting a Boxer puppy this weekend - a white Boxer. Often blind and/or deaf. I explained this to her - how they can be more unhealthy and how important it is to go to a good breeder. She seemed to fall on "deaf" ears - completely ignored the suggestion. She's dead set on this puppy, coming from somewhere in PA near Penn State, and is picking it up tomorrow. She hardly researched the breed (her other dog just died a week ago today!!)

My uncle is going to get a German Shepherd soon. This is a breed I want someday and researched thoroughly... and I had one from the ages of 10-14. I told him I had some breeders bookmarked and I'd send to him, he said "awesome thanks! I am looking for cheap ha!" So I told him to be careful because Shepherds not from good breeding can become very aggressive (as ours did - we got her from a terrible place, she attacked a person and had to be put down). I've told him this story, I've told him how devastated I was, how important it is NOT to make that mistake that we did. Not to mention, hips and elbows are very important to get tested from breeding stock. I even mentioned how a cheap dog CAN be a lot more expensive in the long run. He was appreciative of all the help but in the end, he still was like "I bought my Husky from a pet store, never took her to the vet, and she lived to be 14.... so I think it's all of how you raise them!" I am thinking to myself... yeah that Husky ran away almost every day from you, nearly got hit by dozens of cars, was a nervous wreck and always on edge, in her later years had major hip problems and towards the last few months of her life, couldn't even hardly squat to go pee.... granted, he's older now and different, he got Husky when he was in college.

*SIGH* I am close to my family, very close, this was all said in a VERY nice, non threatening way, and they STILL don't listen. And these are all really good people, honestly. They are dog lovers who DO love and cherish their animals and take care of them but they still don't seem to understand what I am trying to explain. So I really don't understand how the general public who thinks this way and doesn't even have anyone explaining things to them will ever listen or understand the importance.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Britster

Speaking of bad breeders, I've been dealing with family members who choose dogs that can often be plagued by health problems and they choose to go to bad breeders. It's amazing to me sometimes that no matter what you say, how nice you say it, and how much you tell them you've researched, people simply don't care. It does make me wonder sometimes, CAN it really be stopped? I don't think it ever will. Drugs are illegal, people will still always sell them and do them. I won't take part in it, but doesn't mean others are not. I don't know. It's so difficult.

My grandma is getting a Boxer puppy this weekend - a white Boxer. Often blind and/or deaf. I explained this to her - how they can be more unhealthy and how important it is to go to a good breeder. She seemed to fall on "deaf" ears - completely ignored the suggestion. She's dead set on this puppy, coming from somewhere in PA near Penn State, and is picking it up tomorrow. She hardly researched the breed (her other dog just died a week ago today!!)

My uncle is going to get a German Shepherd soon. This is a breed I want someday and researched thoroughly... and I had one from the ages of 10-14. I told him I had some breeders bookmarked and I'd send to him, he said "awesome thanks! I am looking for cheap ha!" So I told him to be careful because Shepherds not from good breeding can become very aggressive (as ours did - we got her from a terrible place, she attacked a person and had to be put down). I've told him this story, I've told him how devastated I was, how important it is NOT to make that mistake that we did. Not to mention, hips and elbows are very important to get tested from breeding stock. I even mentioned how a cheap dog CAN be a lot more expensive in the long run. He was appreciative of all the help but in the end, he still was like "I bought my Husky from a pet store, never took her to the vet, and she lived to be 14.... so I think it's all of how you raise them!" I am thinking to myself... yeah that Husky ran away almost every day from you, nearly got hit by dozens of cars, was a nervous wreck and always on edge, in her later years had major hip problems and towards the last few months of her life, couldn't even hardly squat to go pee.... granted, he's older now and different, he got Husky when he was in college.

*SIGH* I am close to my family, very close, this was all said in a VERY nice, non threatening way, and they STILL don't listen. And these are all really good people, honestly. They are dog lovers who DO love and cherish their animals and take care of them but they still don't seem to understand what I am trying to explain. So I really don't understand how the general public who thinks this way and doesn't even have anyone explaining things to them will ever listen or understand the importance.

Lol, you can lead a mule to water, but you can't make it drink. Good for you for trying to educate them. Maybe they will have to learn the hard way.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Britster

Speaking of bad breeders, I've been dealing with family members who choose dogs that can often be plagued by health problems and they choose to go to bad breeders. It's amazing to me sometimes that no matter what you say, how nice you say it, and how much you tell them you've researched, people simply don't care. It does make me wonder sometimes, CAN it really be stopped? I don't think it ever will. Drugs are illegal, people will still always sell them and do them. I won't take part in it, but doesn't mean others are not. I don't know. It's so difficult.

My grandma is getting a Boxer puppy this weekend - a white Boxer. Often blind and/or deaf. I explained this to her - how they can be more unhealthy and how important it is to go to a good breeder. She seemed to fall on "deaf" ears - completely ignored the suggestion. She's dead set on this puppy, coming from somewhere in PA near Penn State, and is picking it up tomorrow. She hardly researched the breed (her other dog just died a week ago today!!)

My uncle is going to get a German Shepherd soon. This is a breed I want someday and researched thoroughly... and I had one from the ages of 10-14. I told him I had some breeders bookmarked and I'd send to him, he said "awesome thanks! I am looking for cheap ha!" So I told him to be careful because Shepherds not from good breeding can become very aggressive (as ours did - we got her from a terrible place, she attacked a person and had to be put down). I've told him this story, I've told him how devastated I was, how important it is NOT to make that mistake that we did. Not to mention, hips and elbows are very important to get tested from breeding stock. I even mentioned how a cheap dog CAN be a lot more expensive in the long run. He was appreciative of all the help but in the end, he still was like "I bought my Husky from a pet store, never took her to the vet, and she lived to be 14.... so I think it's all of how you raise them!" I am thinking to myself... yeah that Husky ran away almost every day from you, nearly got hit by dozens of cars, was a nervous wreck and always on edge, in her later years had major hip problems and towards the last few months of her life, couldn't even hardly squat to go pee.... granted, he's older now and different, he got Husky when he was in college.

*SIGH* I am close to my family, very close, this was all said in a VERY nice, non threatening way, and they STILL don't listen. And these are all really good people, honestly. They are dog lovers who DO love and cherish their animals and take care of them but they still don't seem to understand what I am trying to explain. So I really don't understand how the general public who thinks this way and doesn't even have anyone explaining things to them will ever listen or understand the importance.

I really understand your frustration and Im thankful that you are one that is trying to steer people in the right direction that is all you can do. Slavery used to be accepted also. Then one small voice said no thats wrong this should be abolished and then in time that voice grew and grew untill now when we dont have slavery so change is possible even when it seems hopeless. I just know for myself for now I dont want to see the yorkie breed decline any further than it already has and I would love to see real change and that is what I am going to advocate for even though right now I am just part of that one small voice

[Britster]

I also think that people get fooled a lot of times. They see AKC pups for $2500 and automatically think "OH these must be good!!" when that's not the case! More $$$ doesn't always = better. I don't really give a hoot about breed standard, papers and all that personally. But I do want to see that dogs are being health tested, proved capable of their work (if a working breed) and people DOING things with their dogs.

I would rather go to a breeder who maybe doesn't do AKC showing but who has her dogs living in her house, like family, who health tests for things prevalent in the breed, who works with her dog (whether it be agility, rally, therapy, dock diving, search/rescue, whatever it is that breed may excel at) and proves they are capable of what they were bred to do and doesn't just throw one dog together with another one.

What's the point of having a German Shepherd who has won multiple titles in the ring but wouldn't be capable of any work because he walks like a frog, because that's what the AKC judges like to see and know will win? So they breed for these traits that make it a harder life for the dog... so many bulldogs can hardly breathe or walk, all Cavaliers are doomed to be plagued with heart problems by the age of 8-10, and almost all die from it.

I am kind of on the fence with everything.... because sometimes I think the showing world can be a little ridiculous. But I do understand the importance of a breed standard. If we didn't have them, then Golden Retrievers wouldn't be Golden Retrievers and Border Terriers wouldn't be Border Terriers. People are attracted to different breeds for different reasons, qualities, etc. So we need something like the AKC monitoring this stuff, but at the same time... it can be so sketchy.

I dunno... kind of just rambling, maybe going a little OT.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Lol, you can lead a mule to water, but you can't make it drink. Good for you for trying to educate them. Maybe they will have to learn the hard way.

In a sad way, I almost hope the puppy is deaf. Is that really bad? Not for the puppies sake... but it would maybe be an eye opener? I know that they would love a deaf puppy just the same. But it's just irritating. And knowing them, they would get lucky and have a perfectly healthy dog. Just like my uncle. And they will keep believing that "Oh I've gotten dogs from here and there and this and that and they always live long healthy lives..." and then it DOES make me question. Well, IS it that important? *sigh* It's just frustrating.

Originally Posted by chachi

I really understand your frustration and Im thankful that you are one that is trying to steer people in the right direction that is all you can do. Slavery used to be accepted also. Then one small voice said no thats wrong this should be abolished and then in time that voice grew and grew untill now when we dont have slavery so change is possible even when it seems hopeless. I just know for myself for now I dont want to see the yorkie breed decline any further than it already has and I would love to see real change and that is what I am going to advocate for even though right now I am just part of that one small voice

Thanks, you are very right.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Britster

I also think that people get fooled a lot of times. They see AKC pups for $2500 and automatically think "OH these must be good!!" when that's not the case! More $$$ doesn't always = better. I don't really give a hoot about breed standard, papers and all that personally. But I do want to see that dogs are being health tested, proved capable of their work (if a working breed) and people DOING things with their dogs.

I would rather go to a breeder who maybe doesn't do AKC showing but who has her dogs living in her house, like family, who health tests for things prevalent in the breed, who works with her dog (whether it be agility, rally, therapy, dock diving, search/rescue, whatever it is that breed may excel at) and proves they are capable of what they were bred to do and doesn't just throw one dog together with another one.

What's the point of having a German Shepherd who has won multiple titles in the ring but wouldn't be capable of any work because he walks like a frog, because that's what the AKC judges like to see and know will win? So they breed for these traits that make it a harder life for the dog... so many bulldogs can hardly breathe or walk, all Cavaliers are doomed to be plagued with heart problems by the age of 8-10, and almost all die from it.

I am kind of on the fence with everything.... because sometimes I think the showing world can be a little ridiculous. But I do understand the importance of a breed standard. If we didn't have them, then Golden Retrievers wouldn't be Golden Retrievers and Border Terriers wouldn't be Border Terriers. People are attracted to different breeds for different reasons, qualities, etc. So we need something like the AKC monitoring this stuff, but at the same time... it can be so sketchy.

I dunno... kind of just rambling, maybe going a little OT.

Well thats the thing with other breeds bad breeding got all the way up to the show breeders and it determined what the breed became. It is happening with yorkies too not all show breeders are breeding for the healthiest possible yorkie anymore we have seen it on here. Thats what I mean when I say I dont want to be a part of the further decline of the yorkie breed because just look what it did to other breeds

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Britster

*SIGH* I am close to my family, very close, this was all said in a VERY nice, non threatening way, and they STILL don't listen. And these are all really good people, honestly. They are dog lovers who DO love and cherish their animals and take care of them but they still don't seem to understand what I am trying to explain. So I really don't understand how the general public who thinks this way and doesn't even have anyone explaining things to them will ever listen or understand the importance.

It's frustrating when people don't see the big picture. Even the ones that do buy from puppymills/brokers/bad breeders and happen to get a healthy puppy, don't seem to realize that THEY and the MONEY they provide to that mill/broker/greeder, are directly responsible for keeping their pup's parents living in that situation to produce more pups. We just have to keep educating as, just like in a classroom setting, some are slow learners and don't seem to get it the first time around Teachers aren't supposed to give up on slow learners in a classroom, so why should be give up on slow learners in society?

[111lily222]

Originally Posted by chachi

this isnt about a pet owners love for a dog no matter what size. We all love our dogs for whatever qualities they possess. s.This is about breeders producing a consistant good example of the breed. You may not be showing but you should still be able to expect breeders to breed the best quality yorkie according to the standard yorkies are supposed to be bred to. There really should be no one asking does my yorkie look like a yorkike or a mixed breed? How come my yorkie that had 6 lb parents is 15 lbs? Why does my new yorkie look nothing like my first yorkie. There should be alot more consistancy in the way a yorkie looks and temperment. There also shouldnt be so much liver shunt, lp and other disorders affecting so many yorkies. Not only are breeders not breeding to the standard they arent breeding for healthy yorkies either. That is just debilitating to the breed.

So very true... What I have notice is you don't see enough breeders doing testing whether it be ofa, eye cerfs., ect... and imho that should be a given.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by Britster

Speaking of bad breeders, I've been dealing with family members who choose dogs that can often be plagued by health problems and they choose to go to bad breeders. It's amazing to me sometimes that no matter what you say, how nice you say it, and how much you tell them you've researched, people simply don't care. It does make me wonder sometimes, CAN it really be stopped? I don't think it ever will. Drugs are illegal, people will still always sell them and do them. I won't take part in it, but doesn't mean others are not. I don't know. It's so difficult.

My grandma is getting a Boxer puppy this weekend - a white Boxer. Often blind and/or deaf. I explained this to her - how they can be more unhealthy and how important it is to go to a good breeder. She seemed to fall on "deaf" ears - completely ignored the suggestion. She's dead set on this puppy, coming from somewhere in PA near Penn State, and is picking it up tomorrow. She hardly researched the breed (her other dog just died a week ago today!!)

My uncle is going to get a German Shepherd soon. This is a breed I want someday and researched thoroughly... and I had one from the ages of 10-14. I told him I had some breeders bookmarked and I'd send to him, he said "awesome thanks! I am looking for cheap ha!" So I told him to be careful because Shepherds not from good breeding can become very aggressive (as ours did - we got her from a terrible place, she attacked a person and had to be put down). I've told him this story, I've told him how devastated I was, how important it is NOT to make that mistake that we did. Not to mention, hips and elbows are very important to get tested from breeding stock. I even mentioned how a cheap dog CAN be a lot more expensive in the long run. He was appreciative of all the help but in the end, he still was like "I bought my Husky from a pet store, never took her to the vet, and she lived to be 14.... so I think it's all of how you raise them!" I am thinking to myself... yeah that Husky ran away almost every day from you, nearly got hit by dozens of cars, was a nervous wreck and always on edge, in her later years had major hip problems and towards the last few months of her life, couldn't even hardly squat to go pee.... granted, he's older now and different, he got Husky when he was in college.

*SIGH* I am close to my family, very close, this was all said in a VERY nice, non threatening way, and they STILL don't listen. And these are all really good people, honestly. They are dog lovers who DO love and cherish their animals and take care of them but they still don't seem to understand what I am trying to explain. So I really don't understand how the general public who thinks this way and doesn't even have anyone explaining things to them will ever listen or understand the importance.

I'll bet your words have been heard and heeded by someone - even if it's not your immediate family. And it may take a while but at some point, a fraction of it might sink in even to your family.

I feel the same way when my cuz goes on about how she wants a minature, teacup, yorkiepoo/yorkiechon . . . whatever.

But I keep trying in a nice way hoping to get through to someone - so don't quit!

[Teresa Ford]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

That's like saying we can't stop drug dealers so we might as well buy drugs. Breeders do stop breeding when they have a problem selling the dogs, it happens here all the time. When you buy from a bad breeder they usually breed more, and not only that, they will sell breeding rights to other bad breeders, and this really destroys the breed. No one is criticizing people for giving a home to a dog, and many of us got dogs before we were aware of the problem, but once you are aware, I hope your next dog comes from the best breeder who will sell to you or you can rescue from an ethical rescue, one that does not pay bad breeders for their dogs.

good advice
We all love our dogs, show dogs, rescues,or mixed little 'what-is-it'. The point is DO NOT SUPPORT Puppy Mills. Buy from a private breeder with a good reputation or Rescue a dog from a reputable rescue or shelter.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Britster

Speaking of bad breeders, I've been dealing with family members who choose dogs that can often be plagued by health problems and they choose to go to bad breeders. It's amazing to me sometimes that no matter what you say, how nice you say it, and how much you tell them you've researched, people simply don't care. It does make me wonder sometimes, CAN it really be stopped? I don't think it ever will. Drugs are illegal, people will still always sell them and do them. I won't take part in it, but doesn't mean others are not. I don't know. It's so difficult.

My grandma is getting a Boxer puppy this weekend - a white Boxer. Often blind and/or deaf. I explained this to her - how they can be more unhealthy and how important it is to go to a good breeder. She seemed to fall on "deaf" ears - completely ignored the suggestion. She's dead set on this puppy, coming from somewhere in PA near Penn State, and is picking it up tomorrow. She hardly researched the breed (her other dog just died a week ago today!!)

My uncle is going to get a German Shepherd soon. This is a breed I want someday and researched thoroughly... and I had one from the ages of 10-14. I told him I had some breeders bookmarked and I'd send to him, he said "awesome thanks! I am looking for cheap ha!" So I told him to be careful because Shepherds not from good breeding can become very aggressive (as ours did - we got her from a terrible place, she attacked a person and had to be put down). I've told him this story, I've told him how devastated I was, how important it is NOT to make that mistake that we did. Not to mention, hips and elbows are very important to get tested from breeding stock. I even mentioned how a cheap dog CAN be a lot more expensive in the long run. He was appreciative of all the help but in the end, he still was like "I bought my Husky from a pet store, never took her to the vet, and she lived to be 14.... so I think it's all of how you raise them!" I am thinking to myself... yeah that Husky ran away almost every day from you, nearly got hit by dozens of cars, was a nervous wreck and always on edge, in her later years had major hip problems and towards the last few months of her life, couldn't even hardly squat to go pee.... granted, he's older now and different, he got Husky when he was in college.

*SIGH* I am close to my family, very close, this was all said in a VERY nice, non threatening way, and they STILL don't listen. And these are all really good people, honestly. They are dog lovers who DO love and cherish their animals and take care of them but they still don't seem to understand what I am trying to explain. So I really don't understand how the general public who thinks this way and doesn't even have anyone explaining things to them will ever listen or understand the importance.

I'm sorry Brit at least you tried. My mom is like well the puppies have to go somewhere so I would be rescuing one. I have many times tried explaining to her you would be helping that person make what they think is a quick buck (talking about the people selling puppies on the side of the road) plus think of all the health issues Callie had as a puppy and continues to have do you really want a puppy who is gonna have health issues like that. Its hard when trying to inform family members because you don't want to get nasty because its your family but you want them to understand.

[Teresa Ford]

Originally Posted by chachi

this isnt about a pet owners love for a dog no matter what size. We all love our dogs Not only are breeders not breeding to the standard they arent breeding for healthy yorkies either. That is just debilitating to the breed.

Excellent Observations !

[Britster]

GOOD NEWS - after I posted the post in this thread, my grandma called me and said 'well, Brit, we changed our minds about the Boxer pup!" I told her I was happy with her decision and I knew she had her heart set but I think it was for the best. She said after I explained about the issues with white Boxers, she had FOUR other people tell her the same thing. She did not want to set herself up for heart ache or financial stress so opted out. YAY! So maybe I WAS heard, even if it took some others convincing too.

She is going to the SPCA tomorrow to look at some dogs!

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I'm sorry Brit at least you tried. My mom is like well the puppies have to go somewhere so I would be rescuing one. I have many times tried explaining to her you would be helping that person make what they think is a quick buck (talking about the people selling puppies on the side of the road) plus think of all the health issues Callie had as a puppy and continues to have do you really want a puppy who is gonna have health issues like that. Its hard when trying to inform family members because you don't want to get nasty because its your family but you want them to understand.

My mom is the SAME WAY! "Well, then, we're resucing them from a puppy mill!" and I said "no... you are putting more money in their pockets AND having that mother continue to be bred" and she just went "Oh." LOL.

I know it's a lot to wrap your mind around. Especially if you are not a 'dog enthusiast' like so many of us are on this site. It's very easy to just tell yourself, oh but they are so cute and we are saving them.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Britster

GOOD NEWS - after I posted the post in this thread, my grandma called me and said 'well, Brit, we changed our minds about the Boxer pup!" I told her I was happy with her decision and I knew she had her heart set but I think it was for the best. She said after I explained about the issues with white Boxers, she had FOUR other people tell her the same thing. She did not want to set herself up for heart ache or financial stress so opted out. YAY! So maybe I WAS heard, even if it took some others convincing too.

She is going to the SPCA tomorrow to look at some dogs!

Oh that's so cool, when you can get your family to listen to you, you've become a "master".