Because first many owners on this board own more than a Yorkie, they also own medium to large breeds. And Phils post actually included a study that included 46% small breed dogs. And if many folks search and seek, we can get more studies that refer to small breeds in one way or another. UNTIL FINALLY the Yorkie foundation funds research into spaying and neutering on Yorkies health benefits risks etc.

Because this is a forum OPEN TO ALL OWNERS OF ALL DOGS. NOT JUST limited to YORKIE owners only.

Because those studies are and can be relevant to small breed dogs. A dog is a dog is a dog. But breed pre-dilections needs to be researched and funded. And guess who will be doing the funding????

Because education is paramount in dog ownership, and because my passion is just that to Educate.

I truly don\t care if you want to not educate yourself on recent studies, and what is going on in the wider dog world around you. But others do, and this thread will be kept open to post research on this topic, as I post research on other health concerns/topics.

The word de-sexing to me is being used to weaponize your statement/sentiments toward an antitspay/neutering agenda. Do you know how many woman have had their uterus removed for medical reasons? At 41 I had a total hysterectomy I do not consider myself any less of a female than before my surgery. As a matter of fact, I like the idea of not having a monthly heat any longer. :thumbup:

If you want my opinion, it should not be. If people want to research, go to school and become a researcher. If they want to converse on a scientific forum, go find one. If YT wants to create a forum for the few who want to discuss this stuff, then so be it. But, to post it over and over when people ask about altering their pets is worrisome to me....there is NO way that the things are being posted take precedence over the risks of mammary tumors and other health issues of yorkies...a worry about torn CCLs? please

My problem with all of this is that it is NOT educational for the average YORKIE owner on this forum. If it were, then the language would be such that the average owner could interpret/understand it.

It seems to be one person's hell bent agenda to stuff something down others' throats. My take on it. But, of course everyone has a right to their "opinions" and until it is written in stone that spay/neuter is doing something harmful to yorkies then it will remain as an opinion.

If one truly cared about the yorkie breed, they would not be posting things that could be misinterpreted and lead to more pregnant yorkies....just the way that *I* see all of this.

Agree with you. ..and sometimes it isn't even about 'if' spaying or neutering but about 'when'. Pip's my first female, we've always had male dogs. When looking what's best for her, I read waiting 3 mths after her first season is best, I'd love there to be more research on this, and other health issues that the timing of the spaying could effect.

A section for the research would be good. This thread was a hard slog, with the back biting and at sometimes mean comments. Just the facts for and against would be useful.

Let me also add that the main focus of this forum is yorkies....sure there are other breeds here; but the name of the forum tells me exactly what the focus is: Yorkies

As for Golden Retrievers, I did not read that link. All I know is that the people I have spoken with believe that the cancers they are prone to have something to do with breeding. I don't know if someone is now saying it is due to spay/neuters; but if so, I can virtually guarantee that the people saying it are hooked up with breeders. Breeders are well known for doing everything they can to protect their livelihood.

Why is this thread in the General Forum? I've seen threads moved over much less to Off Topic or even Health. I thought this was strictly for General Yorkie Discussion. :confused:

The language in these studies is not something most yorkie owners are going to understand. It is fine to research and post research but I dont think it should be insinuated someones dog got LP because of early spay neuter when it could have been inherited and there is no way the poster doesnt know it wasnt

That's one of the points I was trying to make when I suggested a science forum for discussing scientific issues that are off the mainstream general discussion. I could see this thread being moved to Health though...

I agree totally. There is no way of knowing how or why a Yorkie developed a particular health problem, unless you are that Yorkie's vet. Studies can show general trends, but no one can conclude from a general study what happened in a particular Yorkie's case.

I think any kind of knowledge should be shared. This shouldn't be a one-sided forum. I know many people who keep intact animals and are great owners. It's not so black/white. The people who are going to let their dogs get pregnant are going to do it anyway... regardless of what anyone posts on an internet forum. How many times do posters come on and ask for advice and then not take it anyway? Any level-headed person with a tiny bit of common sense can make their own rational decisions regarding their pets. But there's always going to be idiots.

A bit off topic of the off topic, I got de-sexed at 41 too, I'm having terrible issues with my hips and shoulders are those considered growth plates?

Plus, there is a lot of assumption trying to connect the correlation between the different studies that have are published research articles when the general public does not have access to the entire articles or the ones sited. So it turns into assumptions on the part of some of the readers. Which then leads to confusion and vague assumptions.

Chachi......I'm not picking on you at all but going to use your post as an example of the confusion ;)


Because of the confusion you are now under the assumption that LP was talked about in the posted articles but actually it was CCL rupture that was slightly increased in altered female dogs. See how this information can become confused. Now someone else will come along and see this and take it as fact.

Lyle....were 41 believe me your growth plates closed up years, and years and years and years ago. :thumbup:

Excuseeeem wah Jordi? Are you insinuating my de-sexing has de-sexed me? I will have you know I may not be in heat every month but I'm still very actively rocking my sexy-ism....and still have points all my own sitting way up high...;)

I'd never have known you were de-sexed by your dirty mind and some of your questionable behaviors. :rolleyes:

Why did I think this was a pm????????????????????????:eek::D:p

:eyeballpc:eyetearss:eyetearss

People share knowledge on this forum all day long whether it makes sense or not. That does not mean that those who have different opinions should not continue to counter post.

I personally don't know anyone with an intact dog that is a responsible pet owner. Not one. I know some who are irresponsible but I don't spend a lot of time around them because it makes me sick.

I see a lot of posters come here and not take advice...usually it is the ones who just want someone to rubber stamp their irresponsible behaviors. I agree that people will breed if they want to breed; but I also believe that some people are so naive and will not alter their pets out of a deep fear when in fact their pups are at risk of more serious things than possible ortho issues. And, lastly, I believe that people do not fully understand what having an intact dog entails....nor do they really know how to protect them. You mention common sense. Not so sure it is common sense. I think it is that so many are so gullible and believe everything they read. Some of this scientific jargon is so far above the average person's head. All they will get out of some of this is that if they alter their pup it is going to be endangered. Is this fair? I think not.

This thread is disturbing to me on many levels. I really do question the motives behind it but I will just continue to post what I believe as others do. Not my call what stays on this forum.

You'd be shocked at how little penalizing there is for even doing that.

Actually I do know that is a fact. Very sad...but some do get something. Animal neglecters not so much.

Very sad that we as a society treat children, the elderly and also the animals so badly.

It is a yorkie bored though so maybe it should be in the off topic section because if it's not about yorkies it is off topic. You can find all the research you want but unless it has all the info and bios on the dogs that were studied it's not going to mean much. Large breed dogs are very much different then small breed dogs in many ways by how they grow, the speed they grow, and how they mature. It has nothing to do with not educating but again big dogs are different and the one that includes the small dogs is missing a lot of important info. Well it's not completely your choice if it stays open or not. I also don't think you need to talk down to me because I have a different opinion then you and yes it has it's own study's and research to it. Just because my opinions are different does not mean I'm an idiot.

Well whose choice is it then pray tell?

Admin and the moderators they could close one that was even on topic if they wanted to.

Lack of sleep its making everyone crazy :D wait I might have already been there

It's not :confused:

Well then that is their choice. But they will not do it willy nilly. And certainly not because there are dissenting opinions raised. After all that is the essence of democracy.

Research on this topic will continue to be posted as I find it. For all readers who are interested to read that research.

Alright..............

That is not your decision. This thread will remain where it is, unless the admin moderators decide to move it. I won't ask for this thread to be moved.

Nor is it yours

Real research or just snippets that will bolster your claims? You know just as I do that this is a very controversial topic in the world of veterinary medicine and the research simply is not that conclusive. What IS conclusive is that females are at risk of mammary cancer if not spayed before their first heat. It is beyond me why anyone would encourage the owner of a female yorkie to wait until after that first heat when spaying before would eliminate the possibility of mammary tumors, some of which could be cancerous.

If you are truly interested in educating yorkie parents, please be sure to mention the above fact when you are saying their dog might have a torn CCL that could very well and more than likely be related to luxating patella and bad breeding, not anything at all to do with hormones. Perhaps you have, but I have not seen it.