How does your yorkie act around children? And food possessiveness?? - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Britster · 08-14-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Sometimes dogs that bite really are fearful and not thinking they are pack leaders at all.
The notion that a dog needs to be taught who is boss is bunk imho. You have to evaluate the whole dog and what he is reacting to and how before you can say that he thinks he is the boss.

Nancy1999 · 08-14-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Sometimes dogs that bite really are fearful and not thinking they are pack leaders at all. I take in rescues from all sorts of conditions and don't always know for sure what they have been through.
The notion that a dog needs to be taught who is boss is bunk imho. You have to evaluate the whole dog and what he is reacting to and how before you can say that he thinks he is the boss.
I had two biters long term and each of them were fear biters. They did not think they were the alpha dogs...quite the opposite...they were submissive.

I certainly think a fearful dog will bite, but I think your term of "taught who is boss", is misleading. This shouldn't be taught in a fearful way. Aggression is no part of assertiveness. A good master is assertive and is a calm reliable pack leader and dogs respond well to this. Not all dogs WANT to be the pack leader, it is just they will assume the position if the human doesn’t. Having a clear pack leader makes a dog less fearful. I agree with you that you need to evaluate the whole dog, and I know you have experience with so many dogs from various backgrounds, but I think it's still a mistake for the average pet owner not to teach the dog that all food comes from the alpha and all food belongs to the alpha. I agree that human children should be taught to stay away, but the training should be done with both the dog and the children. Lol, I have no doubt that you are the alpha in your home, and I think your dogs know it.

Britster · 08-14-2011, 01:29 PM

I used to believe in the alpha theory but have since changed my views. It all seems a bit silly to me now, lol. The dog is pulling you out the door first... he's "dominant'. No, he's probably just really excited and wants to get outside and explore. The dog jumps on you constantly, he's automatically dominant. No, he's probably just overstimulated and joyed to see you and hasn't been taught otherwise. I just think the words "dominant" and "alpha" and "pack leader" have been way overused and used in the wrong context. I see that suggested far too much. Someone comes asking why their puppy is constantly biting them and I'll see replies like "You need to become his alpha, he thinks he's the pack leader" (and, I was probably one of these in the past

) but its really a lot simpler than that: he's a puppy and he doesn't know better.

I do think that establishing a mutual trust is very important. I've been able to enjoy the experience of bonding and learning with a dog through truly positive reinforcement. Then I discovered clicker training as well. It's really amazing what you can do with a dog with a little encouragement and positive vibes.

I am not my dogs "pack leader" nor his "alpha". He doesn't obey commands because he HAS to... he does because he WANTS to and he ENJOYS pleasing me. I think the discipline is okay, of course. A dog does need to know some boundaries and limits.

But it did kind of open up my mind to see that the people who CREATED the "pack leader" and "alpha dog" theory disproved it themselves.

And, though dogs biologically are like wolves (in their anatomy), dogs are NOT wolves but are domestic animals bred to work with humans. Wolves were not.

concretegurl · 08-14-2011, 01:57 PM

Alpha theory is effective...
taking the love away and putting in effort has a positive effect though.
I had to soft muzzle Scoobers when I first got him for his fear aggression with other dogs, he is and was very protective of his people.

Britster · 08-14-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Alpha theory is effective...
taking the love away and putting in effort has a positive effect though.

I have no idea what you mean by that. Why would you want to take the love away?

Love, patience, positive reinforcement, mutual respect created this:

Jackson, Worlds Smartest Yorkie - YouTube

concretegurl · 08-14-2011, 03:34 PM

'take the love away' do not encourage bad behavior as so many people do,
'taking the love away' as opposed to alpha theory methods that result in agression equating to returned aggression
give love and attention for positive behaviors

Taryn0405 · 08-14-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britster

I have no idea what you mean by that. Why would you want to take the love away?

Love, patience, positive reinforcement, mutual respect created this:

Jackson, Worlds Smartest Yorkie - YouTube

I love that video. The music goes perfect with Jackson's little face expressions.

YorkieRose · 08-15-2011, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Sometimes dogs that bite really are fearful and not thinking they are pack leaders at all. I take in rescues from all sorts of conditions and don't always know for sure what they have been through.
The notion that a dog needs to be taught who is boss is bunk imho. You have to evaluate the whole dog and what he is reacting to and how before you can say that he thinks he is the boss.
I had two biters long term and each of them were fear biters. They did not think they were the alpha dogs...quite the opposite...they were submissive.

I only have experince living with groups of Yorkies...never had a biter or people hater...or one who was aggressive with food toward humans...had a few pick up something they should not eat and telling them to put it down prevented a trip to the vet...pulled a few nasty things out of pups mouths..

DO NOT know anything about rescues..only training a Yorkie from puppyhood to adulthood...I love a Yorkie who adores people and easy going...
Knowing I am the leader takes ALL the stress off of them...they worry about nothing..the leader does all the worrying...and it makes for a very healthy Yorkie, physically and emotionally...

Recently went to a playdate with mine...never saw so many unfriendly, fearful, aggressive Yorkies....people wanted to know who I got my girls from..they sat on everyones lap, no barking at strangers coming in and out, waited in line for treats, played with all the Yorks..some 3 times their size...I bred them, I raised them and they are perfect companions...sorry about the bragging, but I hear it every time some is around them...
"Mom takes care of everything, we have no stress, worries or cares"...Kate, Becca, Pinkie, Mallory...

ladyjane · 08-15-2011, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I only have experince living with groups of Yorkies...never had a biter or people hater...or one who was aggressive with food toward humans...had a few pick up something they should not eat and telling them to put it down prevented a trip to the vet...pulled a few nasty things out of pups mouths..

DO NOT know anything about rescues..only training a Yorkie from puppyhood to adulthood...I love a Yorkie who adores people and easy going...
Knowing I am the leader takes ALL the stress off of them...they worry about nothing..the leader does all the worrying...and it makes for a very healthy Yorkie, physically and emotionally...

Recently went to a playdate with mine...never saw so many unfriendly, fearful, aggressive Yorkies....people wanted to know who I got my girls from..they sat on everyones lap, no barking at strangers coming in and out, waited in line for treats, played with all the Yorks..some 3 times their size...I bred them, I raised them and they are perfect companions...sorry about the bragging, but I hear it every time some is around them...
"Mom takes care of everything, we have no stress, worries or cares"...Kate, Becca, Pinkie, Mallory...

Actually, my pups are very sweet and social. Even the one fear biter. He is a love....there are just certain things that scare him. Poor thing was found living in the woods so when I got him he was feral. He is not a hater of people...he was sadly treated badly by a hater of dogs. He actually was dragging a chain behind him....evidence that he had been outside chained up.

My pups live with a schedule and they are all loved, they are clean, vetted and know that their needs will be met. I believe that is all that is needed. When I get a new one in, he/she quickly learns the routine. I am always so amazed at how well they all adjust...my pups are so good about new ones coming in.

You are right...it is different when you raise them as puppies. With rescues you don't always know what they have been through (and probably don't want to know).

I love each and every one of these pups and accept them the same way that they accept me...unconditionally...although I am sure I am not as good at that as they are. If one or two of them have issues about people or dogs getting near them when they eat, it is a small thing to feed them by themselves. I do my best to meet their needs and they in turn are wonderful pups!

YorkieRose · 08-15-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Actually, my pups are very sweet and social. Even the one fear biter. He is a love....there are just certain things that scare him. Poor thing was found living in the woods so when I got him he was feral. He is not a hater of people...he was sadly treated badly by a hater of dogs. He actually was dragging a chain behind him....evidence that he had been outside chained up.

My pups live with a schedule and they are all loved, they are clean, vetted and know that their needs will be met. I believe that is all that is needed. When I get a new one in, he/she quickly learns the routine. I am always so amazed at how well they all adjust...my pups are so good about new ones coming in.

You are right...it is different when you raise them as puppies. With rescues you don't always know what they have been through (and probably don't want to know).

I love each and every one of these pups and accept them the same way that they accept me...unconditionally...although I am sure I am not as good at that as they are. If one or two of them have issues about people or dogs getting near them when they eat, it is a small thing to feed them by themselves. I do my best to meet their needs and they in turn are wonderful pups!

Breeding is such a big responsiblity...some and I repeat some breeders simply do not care what the temperament of the dog is...even show breeders can be at fault....if the dog and bitch are screened for health issues and found AOK...got their championship or of superior breed quality, they will breed them. Never mind they be an emotional basket case or have aggression problems, shy or fearful..etc etc...
I had a friend with a few really mean dogs and bitches...they bit and snapped..very hard to live with...but she bred them because they were nice bitches, who produced nice puppies...some turned out wonderful, some took after the parents..so do not blame the dog for any of it...it is either bad breeding, bad environment or poor training...the dog is always the innocent one here.

sganow · 08-15-2011, 09:05 AM

Mine are good with kids and are not protective of their food. You can even take treats right out of their mouths. But, they have been raised around kids and a lot of commotion. They are not food aggressive with each other either. They even seem almost willing to share.

Valenie · 08-15-2011, 09:31 AM

My babies do really well with my 3 year old son! We of course watch my son very closely with them especially since Bella is very small we go over the rules every day! He is very loving and gentle with the dogs and they are with him. It is unreal how his and Tibbers's personality's match ....it's like they know what each other is thinking or something. Other kids are rarely allowed around them and if they are I have a strict no holding policy they can stroke their backs if I am holding them. Bella loves kids she wants to play but Tibbs gets really scared and shakes...They are neither one protective over food. However Tibbs is very protective over my son my HD has to be very careful with playing cause if Adam screams or laughs loudly he starts to growl and give the HD dirty looks until he lets him go.

roseylovestosho · 08-15-2011, 09:39 AM

Teddy is an extremely friendly dog. He loves meeting and greeting everyone regardless of size. He really loves children...however young children crying bothers him and he will bark at them lol. Teddy is not possessive with food either. He could care less if I grab it or take it away from him. However, he does like to hide his bullysticks...I guess he just wants them all for himself

ladyjane · 08-15-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Breeding is such a big responsiblity...some and I repeat some breeders simply do not care what the temperament of the dog is...even show breeders can be at fault....if the dog and bitch are screened for health issues and found AOK...got their championship or of superior breed quality, they will breed them. Never mind they be an emotional basket case or have aggression problems, shy or fearful..etc etc...
I had a friend with a few really mean dogs and bitches...they bit and snapped..very hard to live with...but she bred them because they were nice bitches, who produced nice puppies...some turned out wonderful, some took after the parents..so do not blame the dog for any of it...it is either bad breeding, bad environment or poor training...the dog is always the innocent one here.

Absolutely!

YorkieRose · 08-15-2011, 10:32 AM

I would never fault a Yorkie for growling/biting at a child or adult that was abusive...even mild teasing can upset a sensitive Yorkie.

I used to tell my children, if any of the Yorkies bit them because they were too rough or teasing, it was fine with me...they learned very fast to be gentle and not tease after a couple nasty bites from my first English Yorkies...and I do not consider that a "biter"..that is just self protection.

08-14-2011, 01:29 PM	#33
Britster Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 17,815	I used to believe in the alpha theory but have since changed my views. It all seems a bit silly to me now, lol. The dog is pulling you out the door first... he's "dominant'. No, he's probably just really excited and wants to get outside and explore. The dog jumps on you constantly, he's automatically dominant. No, he's probably just overstimulated and joyed to see you and hasn't been taught otherwise. I just think the words "dominant" and "alpha" and "pack leader" have been way overused and used in the wrong context. I see that suggested far too much. Someone comes asking why their puppy is constantly biting them and I'll see replies like "You need to become his alpha, he thinks he's the pack leader" (and, I was probably one of these in the past ) but its really a lot simpler than that: he's a puppy and he doesn't know better. I do think that establishing a mutual trust is very important. I've been able to enjoy the experience of bonding and learning with a dog through truly positive reinforcement. Then I discovered clicker training as well. It's really amazing what you can do with a dog with a little encouragement and positive vibes. I am not my dogs "pack leader" nor his "alpha". He doesn't obey commands because he HAS to... he does because he WANTS to and he ENJOYS pleasing me. I think the discipline is okay, of course. A dog does need to know some boundaries and limits. But it did kind of open up my mind to see that the people who CREATED the "pack leader" and "alpha dog" theory disproved it themselves. And, though dogs biologically are like wolves (in their anatomy), dogs are NOT wolves but are domestic animals bred to work with humans. Wolves were not. __________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier Last edited by Britster; 08-14-2011 at 01:31 PM.

08-14-2011, 01:57 PM	#34
concretegurl Between♥Suspensions Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaissades Posts: 7,979	Alpha theory is effective... taking the love away and putting in effort has a positive effect though. I had to soft muzzle Scoobers when I first got him for his fear aggression with other dogs, he is and was very protective of his people. __________________ Shan & 8 kids now!

08-14-2011, 03:34 PM	#36
concretegurl Between♥Suspensions Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaissades Posts: 7,979	'take the love away' do not encourage bad behavior as so many people do, 'taking the love away' as opposed to alpha theory methods that result in agression equating to returned aggression give love and attention for positive behaviors __________________ Shan & 8 kids now!

08-15-2011, 09:31 AM	#42
Valenie Owned by Bella & Tibbs Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Loyall KY USA Posts: 2,252 Blog Entries: 15	My babies do really well with my 3 year old son! We of course watch my son very closely with them especially since Bella is very small we go over the rules every day! He is very loving and gentle with the dogs and they are with him. It is unreal how his and Tibbers's personality's match ....it's like they know what each other is thinking or something. Other kids are rarely allowed around them and if they are I have a strict no holding policy they can stroke their backs if I am holding them. Bella loves kids she wants to play but Tibbs gets really scared and shakes...They are neither one protective over food. However Tibbs is very protective over my son my HD has to be very careful with playing cause if Adam screams or laughs loudly he starts to growl and give the HD dirty looks until he lets him go. __________________ XOXO Valenie LOVING Mommy to Tibbers Bella and my son Adam!

08-15-2011, 09:39 AM	#43
roseylovestosho Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: #4 PRIVET DRIVE Posts: 1,685	Teddy is an extremely friendly dog. He loves meeting and greeting everyone regardless of size. He really loves children...however young children crying bothers him and he will bark at them lol. Teddy is not possessive with food either. He could care less if I grab it or take it away from him. However, he does like to hide his bullysticks...I guess he just wants them all for himself __________________

08-15-2011, 09:05 AM	#41
sganow YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Van Alstyne, TX Posts: 858	Mine are good with kids and are not protective of their food. You can even take treats right out of their mouths. But, they have been raised around kids and a lot of commotion. They are not food aggressive with each other either. They even seem almost willing to share.

08-15-2011, 10:32 AM	#45
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	I would never fault a Yorkie for growling/biting at a child or adult that was abusive...even mild teasing can upset a sensitive Yorkie. I used to tell my children, if any of the Yorkies bit them because they were too rough or teasing, it was fine with me...they learned very fast to be gentle and not tease after a couple nasty bites from my first English Yorkies...and I do not consider that a "biter"..that is just self protection.