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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   Baby Doll Face? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/207241-baby-doll-face.html)

lovemy3babies 06-28-2010 06:17 AM
Baby Doll Face?
 
I have heard the terms "baby doll face" or "teddy bear face" for yorkies. What does that mean? Can yorkies have different kinds of faces?

Roxiesmama 06-28-2010 08:20 AM
Some have longer snouts, I think. I've been told that Roxie has a teddy-bear face.

Dzbabykel 06-28-2010 08:29 AM
Hehe my little guy definitely has a teddy bear face....that's probably why I call him Olly bear :p

Wrenee4 06-28-2010 08:59 AM
It is just a way to descibe the look of the face. Some don't like the term Baby doll face and hate it as much as they do the word teacup, but I think it just descibes the dog's face. A teddy bear is the longer snout :)

DvlshAngel985 06-28-2010 09:01 AM
I'm clueless about this too. Which one is considered standard? For those of you that can tell the difference, can you post pics of each?

BamaFan121s 06-28-2010 09:15 AM
It's typically just a term used to describe a Yorkie with a shorter snout and larger (often protruding), more wide set eyes.

PenniesMom 06-28-2010 10:02 AM
1 Attachment(s)
I think Sienna is a teddy bear face

Dzbabykel 06-28-2010 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PenniesMom (Post 3179401)
I think Sienna is a teddy bear face
Hehehe awwww so cute!!! :)

kpstoybox 06-28-2010 11:03 AM
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3179318)
I'm clueless about this too. Which one is considered standard? For those of you that can tell the difference, can you post pics of each?
Well, everyone seems to have their own opinion on baby doll and teddy bear faces. So..I will add mine. :)

Here is my Angel Baby...in my opinion..she has a cute small face that some would call a baby doll or teddy bear face.

And then I have Sky who has a very small face...

Third pic is Sky's son who has an adorable baby face...

And the last pic is Angel grown up...

Nancy1999 06-28-2010 11:11 AM
There's no real definition for the terms. The yorkie standard says about the face:

Quote:
Small and rather flat on top, the skull not too prominent or round, the muzzle not too long, with the bite neither undershot nor overshot and teeth sound. Either scissors bite or level bite is acceptable. The nose is black. Eyes are medium in size and not too prominent; dark in color and sparkling with a sharp, intelligent expression. Eye rims are dark. Ears are small, V-shaped, carried erect and set not too far apart. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America
Some breeds have really long muzzles or snouts, others have a flatter face; I've heard that Yorkies have more of a medium type of snout, but there is much variation. Some people use the term teddy bear to describe a small nose with a very fluffy hair face, much like a stuffed teddy bear. Others describe baby doll to mean short nose and wide set eye, and is often used along with the word teacup, meaning extra small, but this word has no real definition. As I said, since there is no real definition, it has no meaning and I would avoid breeders who use these terms as they are marketing terms not breeding terms. Look for breeders who are not just producing pets, but those who are improving the breed.

Dzbabykel 06-28-2010 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3179461)
Well, everyone seems to have their own opinion on baby doll and teddy bear faces. So..I will add mine. :)

Here is my Angel Baby...in my opinion..she has a cute small face that some would call a baby doll or teddy bear face.

And then I have Sky who has a very small face...

Third pic is Sky's son who has an adorable baby face...

And the last pic is Angel grown up...
Ahhh that last picture of Angel is beyond precious! I love her little bow and hair :)

topknot 06-28-2010 11:23 AM
Breeders should refrain from using any term such as, Teddy Bear, doll faced, teacups, etc... see #8 of Code of Ethics http://www.ytca.org/ethics2.html
Reason is they are marketing terms not breeding terms.

kpstoybox 06-28-2010 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzbabykel (Post 3179470)
Ahhh that last picture of Angel is beyond precious! I love her little bow and hair :)
Thanks!!

I personally think she has the cutest little face. ;)

Patti 06-28-2010 12:33 PM
My Pixie has was is described as a baby doll face. I love it. Even if it isn't what the standard calls for.

DvlshAngel985 06-28-2010 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 3179475)
Breeders should refrain from using any term such as, Teddy Bear, doll faced, teacups, etc... see #8 of Code of Ethics Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Code of Ethics
Reason is they are marketing terms not breeding terms.
Thanks for posting that. It's good to have another tool in our arsenal against bad breeders. :)

TammyJM 06-28-2010 12:48 PM
1 Attachment(s)
I know that some do not like for breeders to use these terms, but I do use it to describe a 'certain' look. I have been told that my Livi has a baby doll face.Attachment 320477

Tammy

Nancy1999 06-28-2010 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 3179475)
Breeders should refrain from using any term such as, Teddy Bear, doll faced, teacups, etc... see #8 of Code of Ethics Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Code of Ethics
Reason is they are marketing terms not breeding terms.
Yes, I agree with this, and just want to add, a breeder doesn't need to belong to the YTCA in order to strive to be ethical. A new breeder could follow the code of conduct and code of ethics.

kpstoybox 06-28-2010 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patti (Post 3179541)
My Pixie has was is described as a baby doll face. I love it. Even if it isn't what the standard calls for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 3179554)
I know that some do not like for breeders to use these terms, but I do use it to describe a 'certain' look. I have been told that my Livi has a baby doll face.Attachment 320477

Tammy
Both Pixie and Livi have that perpetual baby face. They still look like puppies, even though they are grown. Nothing wrong with calling them how I see them. And they are both adorable!!

Nancy1999 06-28-2010 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3179572)
Both Pixie and Livi have that perpetual baby face. They still look like puppies, even though they are grown. Nothing wrong with calling them how I see them. And they are both adorable!!
I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with people using this terminology to describe their pets. Lots of people use the word teacup when describing their pets, breeders who use these words on their web pages or to sell dogs are seen by many as unethical.

Breny 06-28-2010 02:02 PM
I don't USE the word TEACUP, just my choice. I prefer the word Tiny. I do use the word babydoll face and see nothing wrong with it and it does NOT make me a bad person for choosing to use it.

Now if I put an ad out there stating I had a Baby doll faced yorkie for sale and price him/her for an outrageous amount...yeah then there would be something wrong. But I use it to describe a certain "look" of the face of the Yorkshire. Another term I tend to use is "more terrier looking".

We are all different and describe our dog different.

So to ME.....Babydoll = short/wide muzzle.

JMO

Perrella 06-28-2010 02:16 PM
I too think my Zhoie has a baby doll face, just using it to describe what her face looks like, nothing more to it for me. And I now understand her cotton is just one of the throws which happens from time to time. And I'm ok with that too.

I do notice when I watch the Yorkies in the show rings, They do tend to have the small face look, not so much the terrier look to them. Anyone know why this is? Is it a look that show people just take to the ring along with all the other qualities that make them a good example of the breed for the ring?

I love this place, you can learn so much on here! :D

Nancy1999 06-28-2010 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrella (Post 3179621)
I too think my Zhoie has a baby doll face, just using it to describe what her face looks like, nothing more to it for me. And I now understand her cotton is just one of the throws which happens from time to time. And I'm ok with that too.

I do notice when I watch the Yorkies in the show rings, They do tend to have the small face look, not so much the terrier look to them. Anyone know why this is? Is it a look that show people just take to the ring along with all the other qualities that make them a good example of the breed for the ring?

I love this place, you can learn so much on here! :D
I think of a Silky having more of a terrier face, and a yorkie as having more of a baby doll face or teddy bear face. I think this is one area in which a breeder can use their discretion, and breed what appeals to them.

Perrella 06-28-2010 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3179625)
I think of a Silky having more of a terrier face, and a yorkie as having more of a baby doll face or teddy bear face. I think this is one area in which a breeder can use their discretion, and breed what appeals to them.
Thanks Nancy, I think that really describes it so well.

capt_noonie 06-28-2010 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3179467)
There's no real definition for the terms. The yorkie standard says about the face:



Some breeds have really long muzzles or snouts, others have a flatter face; I've heard that Yorkies have more of a medium type of snout, but there is much variation. Some people use the term teddy bear to describe a small nose with a very fluffy hair face, much like a stuffed teddy bear. Others describe baby doll to mean short nose and wide set eye, and is often used along with the word teacup, meaning extra small, but this word has no real definition. As I said, since there is no real definition, it has no meaning and I would avoid breeders who use these terms as they are marketing terms not breeding terms. Look for breeders who are not just producing pets, but those who are improving the breed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3179625)
I think of a Silky having more of a terrier face, and a yorkie as having more of a baby doll face or teddy bear face. I think this is one area in which a breeder can use their discretion, and breed what appeals to them.
I agree with the above, although I think the standard is open to interpretation. For example, "muzzle not too long", but everyone has a different idea of what "long" is, right? It just seems a lot of pet owners nowadays prefer the yorkie with a short snout and short cobby legs. While it is cute, it doesn't seem standard as I read standard to be, although I am not a breeder, so I could be totally wrong on this. It's just been my observation.

for the poster who asked about show yorkies all looking like they have baby/teddy bear faces, I think they way someone does a topknot can really balance out a yorkies face. If it is more forward, it makes the snout look shorter, make the head look bigger and rounder,etc.

As for yorkie puppies, I think they ALL look like teddy bears!

I would just be weary of breeders who use all the tag words, like extreme baby doll face, tiny teacup, micro teacup, etc. Oh also sometimes the super huge head and eyes that looks super cute, is hydrocephalus. :thumbdown

Woogie Man 06-28-2010 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrella (Post 3179621)
I do notice when I watch the Yorkies in the show rings, They do tend to have the small face look, not so much the terrier look to them. Anyone know why this is? Is it a look that show people just take to the ring along with all the other qualities that make them a good example of the breed for the ring?
This is probably best answered by an exhibitor, but I've read that in America the shorter snout is (was) preferred in the ring while in England a more terrier look is (was) preferred. It was in Ann Seranne's book that I read it. Her book was written some time ago (copyright 1980) and from looking at videos of current winning Yorkies it seems that the difference is not so much as it may have been 30 or more years ago.

Mardelin 06-28-2010 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3179940)
This is probably best answered by an exhibitor, but I've read that in America the shorter snout is (was) preferred in the ring while in England a more terrier look is (was) preferred. It was in Ann Seranne's book that I read it. Her book was written some time ago (copyright 1980) and from looking at videos of current winning Yorkies it seems that the difference is not so much as it may have been 30 or more years ago.
As an exhibitor, I'll attempt to answer this. Yes, the America's have gone to a softer head/face and away from the Terrier head.

Let me expand; if one studies the Illustrated Handbook, which breaks down the AKC/YTCA American Standard....the standard is explained more in detail there.

However, to have a pleasing well balanced head...you would measure as follows: The distance from the tip of the nose to the outer corner of the eye, should be the same distance as from outer corner to outer corner of the eyes....

The correct term is a softer looking head. Or a pretty head.....Completely different from a baby doll head; baby doll heads tend to be apple headed.

Woogie Man 06-28-2010 06:22 PM
Hahaha...right on time, Mary. Notice that I did put in the disclaimer that an exhibitor could answer best. I have heard of the measuring the head as you described. I think the over-riding word used in most aspects of appearance is 'balanced' and measuring the head in that way fits that logic perfectly.

brendarash 06-28-2010 06:42 PM
Teddy bear versus baby doll and tea cup versus tea pot
 
I have been told that Jackie is a teddy bear and Sadie is a baby doll face. I have no clue on how to put pictures on here. The picture I have with thw two in a stroller, Jackie is the biggest one. The one question I do have about The term Tea cup is this, If some people do not like the term teacup ,why is it okay to use the term tea pot? Just wondering.

Disney 06-28-2010 06:47 PM
I really like the look of smaller nose. Not really flat and bug eyes but like some of champion dog I seen on here.

Mardelin 06-28-2010 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3180010)
Hahaha...right on time, Mary. Notice that I did put in the disclaimer that an exhibitor could answer best. I have heard of the measuring the head as you described. I think the over-riding word used in most aspects of appearance is 'balanced' and measuring the head in that way fits that logic perfectly.
That is the operative word "balanced".

But, one must remember, the standard being there for every breeder to strive too. This is what the exhibitor uses to guide them what is show/breeding quality. But, there are those adorable pets that are not of show quality but, lil Champions in the hearts of their owners.


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