Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3175639)

sure go ahead crystal as sadly you are the reason Jodi no longer helps here because you have bashed susan davis so go right ahead and eventually it will just be you and LJ helping people so you might want to start staying up 24/7 as things happen when you are not on the computer to help people.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3175656)

I dont have time for this today...but two very quick things;

1: I do not even USE yahoo messenger...NOR do I ask people to come gang up on anyone. The only thing I can figure, since I do often see certain people come along in your support only sporadically when you are upset...is that perhaps you engage in such activity and believe that others do.

2: You and the other critics of Roriee's situation need to ask yourselves what YOU DID. Seriously. I am not going to defend myself because I do not need to do so. That dog was suffering while everyone was telling Randi NOT to surrender her...even telling her to give her lactulose...OMG ... Lactulose was a cure from what was said on one Yahoo group.... UGH NO ONE offered what was REALLY needed....a vet specialist to see that dog. DID YOU HEAR HER SCREAM?????? I did. And I will NOT continue to tell you this. You need to get off your high horse...or put your money where your mouth is. I even tried to pay a considerable amount of money to help Randi KEEP her. What did you offer? I can tell you this: The dog needed money...NOT people advised her what to give the poor suffering dog. I gave Randi another option the day before...she mentioned euthanasia and I offered to pay for that and indivdual cremation so that her ashes would be returned to her. DID YOU offer any solutions????? YES...I HAD told her I would call animal control...the dog was being neglected...not because the woman WANTED to neglect her......but none the less the dog was SUFFERING. HELLO!!! All of the armchair quarterbacks on YT need to stick to their own games. Bottom line: Roriee is fine now and no longer suffering..and you have a problem with that? WhatEVER.

Now lets just let this die. I am NOT going to stop giving my advice to people..and I know you will not. Big DEAL: Life goes on. There is room on YT for ALL opinions and ALL people. sheesh...you need to let it go .. I will stop posting now..I am busy and it will be an opportunity for you to have the last word yet again. :)

Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3175638)

Read below where I have helped some including the OP so honestly you want me to stop helping is that the bottom line?

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3175686)

Actually you were helpful and very knowledgeable, but my vet believes he has a seasonal allergy not a food allergy, which actually will make a big difference in treatment. I'm not going to change his food, as you recommended and I'm going to treat him with benadryl, as my vet recommended. I think this is a perfect example of why I started this thread.

So while I approached you and came to you for help before visiting my vet, the diagnosis was close, but not quite right (so we think at this point).

Your recommendation was to change his food, and if a new person came here with the identical symptom as my Cooper, you would possibly recommend the same thing, not really knowing if that's the true solution or problem. And that new person may take that recommendation, not visit the vet and see no change in the dog's condition.

With that being said, I will probably approach you again for your knowledge because I feel it is very valuable and then take that information to my vet. I was able to say "hmm, do you think it could be a food issue?" and after looking at my chart and my dog she sure didn't think so.

So I thank you for your help & advice but hope that you heed what i'm saying. And I think you are a very valuable asset to YT, as anyone who offers ADVICE is.

Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3175696)

correct as my dermatologist who has further education rules out food allergy first through a 12 week elimination diet to make sure it is not that where as most vets will go to drugs as your vet has gone to. I hope it works though and your dog improves and once he does then please let us all know.

I much prefer going natural than to drugs but unfortunately have had to do the drug route with my allergy dog as well but I did start out ruling out food as all dermatologists suggest.

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3175699)

So you are basically suggesting my vet is wrong? And you don't know that your dermatologist has further education than my vet. That's absurd.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3175680)

One more thing: I have BEEN on the original thread and yes you did tell her to go to a neurologist. You also said you did not believe the dog had encephalitis. You keep saying this...bottom line....the dog was suffering and is not anymore.

Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3175706)

No just know what they do first thing when a dog has allergies as been through it for 6 years

If you do not believe me Ann has a dog with allergies and I am sure her derm ruled out food first as well. You can pm her next time as she will help you.

Do you know how many years of school a vet vs a specialist go to school? There is a difference and they pass board exams as well to become a specialist

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3175713)

My dog is 2 and we've ruled out food allergies first also. It doesn't matter how much schooling someone has. You are telling me that you are right and my vet is wrong. Again, this is why I started this thread. It was in no way directed at you when i created it but......

NOT ALL VETS ARE WRONG. You are forcing me to accept your opinion. I just don't think that is ok. You are calling my vet incompetent. You don't know her. I'm not sure why you feel the need to do that. Ok, I hear what you are saying but please don't force that on me.

I'm not 100% sure Cooper has a food allergy or a season allergy. But please don't make me feel stupid for listening to the doctor who takes care of my dog. And heaven forbid my vet happens to be wrong, which could be possible, I sure as heck won't share it here.

Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3175718)

lol ok your point has been heard loud and clear and everyone has chimed in - I am sure your vet will figure it out for you - so why did you pm me in the first place if you had all the answers as well as your vet?

My suggestion is if you want to get to the bottom of the problem quickly go to a dermatologist bc if your dog is 2 and they have not figured it out then something is wrong but then again there really is no cure for allergies if environmental.

I guess it is a prime example of an owner not giving all the facts here so by all means trust the vet and do not ask others for help if you are going to start a thread to bash them for trying to help.

I really do not care if you accept my opinion or not this is not my dog and the ultimate decision is yours.

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 3174812)

{Have you been reading my mind lately, what the heck? First yesterday, and now today :p?}

This ^^^ is pretty much what I would like to say, if my brain was up to par.

As far as canine heatlh, healthcare, protocol, nutrition, and basic information - probably 20% of what I know has come from a Vet. The other 80% has come from elsewhere, most of that online.

I've been through 5 vets since moving to Phoenix and have finally found a competent place to go. Previous to that, Wylie was misdiagnosed for...oh...6 months plus? I kept taking him in w/ symptoms and *knew* something was wrong, Vet kept saying "Nope, ALL looks normal" :mad:. I finally went to a specialist - he was finally diagnosed with Atypical Cushings, Hypothyroid, and pyoderma. Marcel has also been misdiagnosed by a different Vet.

I think it takes a very unique person with a combination of skills and values to make a *good* Veterinarian. It's a very tough career, and there are so many reasons why. I think it is an industry in which consumers have very little recourse, if any, so that makes the consumer and its patients automatically vulnerable, in my opinion. The health of the patient is absolutely not always first for some vets, that's why it's so imperative to try to choose wisely.

In my humble opinion, the onus of pet health care is shared by the owner. I feel I have to research for my pets' health wayyyyy more than I need to for my own health, or that of my family members. My degree is in Nursing, and I've worked with tons of docs, nurses, techs etc - and I feel much more confident and easy about entrusting my healthcare to my Doctors than I do my pets' healthcare to Vets. That said, Doctors and other med-pros make unthinkable mistakes every day. Human error is unavoidable.

The actual diagnosis should come from a competent Vet. It cannot be done on the internet. A patient must be seen and evaluated. The information, however, surrounding the symptoms is really where the owner can be invaluable to their pet by using the internet and other sources as tools. Forums and groups can (and have) save lives, and HELP sift through symptoms and identify possibilities of what might be going on.

Sharing experiences during a crisis or illness can't be measured, and that's where I think forums are also valuable. But the internet should never, ever be relied upon as a diagnosis - it's a place to gather information, share ideas, learn, improve your dialogue with your vet, and in the end - help you provide your pet with the BEST dang healthcare they can obtain.

As far as dosages, people need to be very careful. That said, in a true emergency where there appears to be no other available options and there is some way to help online - I would help in any way I could. I also think it is okay to share basic First Aid information and some dosages there, because that also can save a life - especially during a situation of poison, stings, etcetera.

Wow, this was really verbose...apologies. :p

Originally Posted by LuvMySissy (Post 3175725)

I've only read the first four pages of this thread so I don't know everything that has been said yet. However, Anne is right on here.

Especially since our pets cannot speak - we are their voice. As owners, I feel we have a responsibility to seek out knowledge and educate ourselves. No one knows everything - but with forums such as this - we have the ability to read and learn. Once you are aware of the potential issues out there, I feel you have an obligation to these precious little ones to question, question, question - especially when pets are not getting better. Always trust your gut. If it is telling you something is wrong, LISTEN! And many vets do not run blood work routinely either. This is something we should ALL be doing at annual exams, but most never do because of the cost. There are so many issues that can be caught early if only this were done.

I have never said all vets are bad - but you should also do your research on every single medication given. And there are many times the dosage is given inaccurately, either by the vet or if filled at a pharmacy - so if something doesn't seem right - question it.

Not to continue stirring up debate, but I have seen many of you posting on this thread specifically tell an OP to do only exactly what their vet has told them. I don't think anyone who is trying to help an OP is meaning to scare with suggested tests/results. If that is how it comes across, perhaps it is the passion of the person posting who has been through this and trying to save the OP heartache?

I can tell you all that when my Sissy was diagnosed with PLE, it was a year after her first pancreatitis-like attack. It was through a repeat Chem 27 panel that lipase levels and immune system markers were going through the roof depsite a very regimented low fat diet. And only because of my knowledge of the Spec cPL test and my request that it was run by my vet as my gut was telling me something was wrong. Had we not done that and gotten the correct diagnosis, Sissy would very likely "have been dead in 6 months" - those were the words of my vet - not my own interpretation. And all this is with a vet I feel very confident in.

So, again the bottom line is do your homework, know your pet, listen to your gut and question. It is the same thing you would do for your child or another family member - why not your beloved furkid?

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3175729)

I wanted to post but had to go back and read the OP to see what the thread is about LOL.

I am now on my third vet in 7 years and will say that I still wish I could find a better one. I think the quality of veterinary care care varies widely from vet to vet. IMO, for every truly great vet there are 10 jackasses out there.

Most vets are what you might think of as a General Practitioner and are not qualified for the truly tough cases. They should, however, be able to recognize when a dog needs more care than they can offer and refer the owner to the appropriate doctor.

My experiences with vets leave me feeling that many are not qualified for much more than doing vaccinations, fecals and dispensing preventatives. Sadly, when we need a truly great vet is when we find out our own are lacking.

As for the advice offered here at YT, I think it is valuable, especially for those people that have a not so great vet. Internet advice must be tempered, however, as none of us are seeing the dog in person and also we are depending on the poster's ability to accurately describe what's going on. I only post in the sick and injured sporadically and then only with some things I've had personal experience with but with all advice I'm very careful in what I say.

Maybe we could use a sticky in the S&I forum with a listing of recommended vets by state and why they are recommended. I know there is a place for vet reviews elsewhere, but maybe something could be posted. This may be helpful for those who have a vet that isn't all he/she should be.

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3175713)

My dog is 2 and we've ruled out food allergies first also. It doesn't matter how much schooling someone has. You are telling me that you are right and my vet is wrong. Again, this is why I started this thread. It was in no way directed at you when i created it but......

NOT ALL VETS ARE WRONG. You are forcing me to accept your opinion. I just don't think that is ok. You are calling my vet incompetent. You don't know her. I'm not sure why you feel the need to do that. Ok, I hear what you are saying but please don't force that on me.

I'm not 100% sure Cooper has a food allergy or a season allergy. But please don't make me feel stupid for listening to the doctor who takes care of my dog. And heaven forbid my vet happens to be wrong, which could be possible, I sure as heck won't share it here.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3175729)

I wanted to post but had to go back and read the OP to see what the thread is about LOL.

I am now on my third vet in 7 years and will say that I still wish I could find a better one. I think the quality of veterinary care care varies widely from vet to vet. IMO, for every truly great vet there are 10 jackasses out there.

Most vets are what you might think of as a General Practitioner and are not qualified for the truly tough cases. They should, however, be able to recognize when a dog needs more care than they can offer and refer the owner to the appropriate doctor.

My experiences with vets leave me feeling that many are not qualified for much more than doing vaccinations, fecals and dispensing preventatives. Sadly, when we need a truly great vet is when we find out our own are lacking.

As for the advice offered here at YT, I think it is valuable, especially for those people that have a not so great vet. Internet advice must be tempered, however, as none of us are seeing the dog in person and also we are depending on the poster's ability to accurately describe what's going on. I only post in the sick and injured sporadically and then only with some things I've had personal experience with but with all advice I'm very careful in what I say.

Maybe we could use a sticky in the S&I forum with a listing of recommended vets by state and why they are recommended. I know there is a place for vet reviews elsewhere, but maybe something could be posted. This may be helpful for those who have a vet that isn't all he/she should be.

Originally Posted by jp4m2 (Post 3175752)

lol....I couldn't agree with this more...I'm going on my 6th vet in about 5 years so I probably have to go through about 4 more to find mine.....

Originally Posted by jp4m2 (Post 3175752)

lol....I couldn't agree with this more...I'm going on my 6th vet in about 5 years so I probably have to go through about 4 more to find mine.....

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3175764)

HaHaHa...you too? Right now I'm going to a clinic that is a member of AAHA and has 8 vets on staff. Still, there is only one vet there that I will let touch my dogs. I do tend to like the larger clinics, however, as they can afford to be better equipped.

Originally Posted by BonBon (Post 3175740)

This is what I've been wanting to say for ages. :thumbup:

It's wonderful when someone wants to offer information and suggestions to help others. But it is wrong to presume that you know more than a vet about a pup's condition. All we know here on YT is what we're told in an online forum - we never see these dogs, never know their full history or even know if what the op's say is accurate. To tell a member that her vet is wrong, that you know more because of what you've read on other forums or from one of the many specialists you call is insulting and rude.

Members should offer advice, be supportive and leave it at that. They shouldn't beat members over the head with repeated posts trying to force opinions on them. Doing so is a cry for attention and a need for praise - not a true, compassionate desire to help.

Most of the members who post in the S&I forum truly love their pets and want the very best for them, yet they're made to feel incompetent, less than intelligent or incapable of taking care of their own animals if they don't follow a particular member's instructions to a tee and ignore the contradictory advice others try to offer. They're criticized for trusting their chosen medical professional and led to distrust anything their vets tell them.

This is dangerous behavior and I truly fear it will cause serious harm to someone's pup one day. The internet is not the place for the diagnosing and vet second-guessing that goes on here regularly. Someone is going to listen to a member who knows nothing about their pet over listening to their own vet and it will be a catastraphe.

In a perfect world members would simply and kindly offer concise, relevant, pertinent information. They would not insult others members vets or needlessly instill fear as I often see done here. Nor would they tell members seeking help "if you don't listen to me, whatever happens to your pup will be on your head." That is cruel and harrassing behavior that is way out of line, yet it gets said here.

Again, thanks for letting me share my opinion.

Originally Posted by BonBon (Post 3175740)

This is what I've been wanting to say for ages. :thumbup:

It's wonderful when someone wants to offer information and suggestions to help others. But it is wrong to presume that you know more than a vet about a pup's condition. All we know here on YT is what we're told in an online forum - we never see these dogs, never know their full history or even know if what the op's say is accurate. To tell a member that her vet is wrong, that you know more because of what you've read on other forums or from one of the many specialists you call is insulting and rude.

Members should offer advice, be supportive and leave it at that. They shouldn't beat members over the head with repeated posts trying to force opinions on them. Doing so is a cry for attention and a need for praise - not a true, compassionate desire to help.

Most of the members who post in the S&I forum truly love their pets and want the very best for them, yet they're made to feel incompetent, less than intelligent or incapable of taking care of their own animals if they don't follow a particular member's instructions to a tee and ignore the contradictory advice others try to offer. They're criticized for trusting their chosen medical professional and led to distrust anything their vets tell them.

This is dangerous behavior and I truly fear it will cause serious harm to someone's pup one day. The internet is not the place for the diagnosing and vet second-guessing that goes on here regularly. Someone is going to listen to a member who knows nothing about their pet over listening to their own vet and it will be a catastraphe.

In a perfect world members would simply and kindly offer concise, relevant, pertinent information. They would not insult others members vets or needlessly instill fear as I often see done here. Nor would they tell members seeking help "if you don't listen to me, whatever happens to your pup will be on your head." That is cruel and harrassing behavior that is way out of line, yet it gets said here.

Again, thanks for letting me share my opinion.

Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3175767)

lol yep went to one of the two aaha vets in my area and they gave my dog metacam while on steroids when i asked for tramadol - check out how that should never be done on fda.gov site lolllll I trusted him though as he was AAHA vet and that was my AHA Moment about AAHA vets

ETA oh and i went to him only because he had a digital xray machine so he was better equipped alright

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3175778)

I think that an AAHA member is a good place to start in looking for a vet, but is no guarantee. I have a horror story of my own when another vet at the clinic saw one of mine while 'my' vet was on vacation.

It's much better to do your homework first in finding a good vet and knowing who the specialists are in your area rather than scrambling around once you have the real need.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3175773)

Great post.
So, many of us go in blindly, not knowing that most vets are General Practitioners.....not knowing a good GP vet is not so entrenched with their ego and will inform you when a Specialist is needed and send you there. A good vet understands we know our dogs better than they do and will listen to what we have to say. And I mean listen, not just to the symptons we are giving them, but our dog's behavior.

Originally Posted by BonBon (Post 3175740)

This is what I've been wanting to say for ages. :thumbup:

It's wonderful when someone wants to offer information and suggestions to help others. But it is wrong to presume that you know more than a vet about a pup's condition. All we know here on YT is what we're told in an online forum - we never see these dogs, never know their full history or even know if what the op's say is accurate. To tell a member that her vet is wrong, that you know more because of what you've read on other forums or from one of the many specialists you call is insulting and rude.

Members should offer advice, be supportive and leave it at that. They shouldn't beat members over the head with repeated posts trying to force opinions on them. Doing so is a cry for attention and a need for praise - not a true, compassionate desire to help.

Most of the members who post in the S&I forum truly love their pets and want the very best for them, yet they're made to feel incompetent, less than intelligent or incapable of taking care of their own animals if they don't follow a particular member's instructions to a tee and ignore the contradictory advice others try to offer. They're criticized for trusting their chosen medical professional and led to distrust anything their vets tell them.

This is dangerous behavior and I truly fear it will cause serious harm to someone's pup one day. The internet is not the place for the diagnosing and vet second-guessing that goes on here regularly. Someone is going to listen to a member who knows nothing about their pet over listening to their own vet and it will be a catastraphe.

In a perfect world members would simply and kindly offer concise, relevant, pertinent information. They would not insult others members vets or needlessly instill fear as I often see done here. Nor would they tell members seeking help "if you don't listen to me, whatever happens to your pup will be on your head." That is cruel and harrassing behavior that is way out of line, yet it gets said here.

Again, thanks for letting me share my opinion.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3175773)

Great post.

Some of us have had the great fortune of finding a great vet and other's have had difficulty in doing so. In my opinion advice should be offerred on how to find a good vet. Given advice on how to recognize a good vet. Bottom line is that we the owners of our dogs are the first line of defense for anything medical that our dogs may require.

So, many of us go in blindly, not knowing that most vets are General Practitioners.....not knowing a good GP vet is not so entrenched with their ego and will inform you when a Specialist is needed and send you there. A good vet understands we know our dogs better than they do and will listen to what we have to say. And I mean listen, not just to the symptons we are giving them, but our dog's behavior.