I agree about treading softly with this.

I don't know her personally but have known of her through the shows.

I also agree with this...

The reason why I was so hesitant about revealing her name was all the concerns posted above. Rose hasn't returned our phone calls, but I will keep close contact w/my friend & have her contact her again. Fanny's pedigree is on the girls page, you can see her line. It could just simply be that she has too many dogs on her hands...
I will post again when my friend has talked to her about Fanny's knees & her needing surgery & what she says about it.

Thank you for all your concerns & yes, I intend to tread softly.

Just so you understand I am fully behind outing a bad breeder if they are..I know this one is a little more touchy because of her reputation but I can also show you other breeders who at one time had a great reputation and now no longer do. Michigan's economy is one of the worse in the country and I know other great Yorkie breeders in the state have toned down their breeding big time because they couldn't sell their pet quality yorkies for much at all.

I hope we can always protect the dogs but we have to be sure the information is correct as I know you are.

A rant of sorts.
 

I am really really really getting tired of this topic. In fact, its starting to really anger me.
Please note that there are two stickied threads dedicated to this topic in the looking for a yorkie area of this site, where it should be.
Take into consideration that most people who come to this site, come here to acquire information about a breed they have ALREADY purchased. I have seen too many members bash and belittle a first time member over where they have purchased their dog in the last few months.
Where did this hierarchy come from, this elitist attitude? How informed were you prior to getting your own dog?
Puppy mills and backyard breeders exist and it is a sad fact. Should puppies already purchased from an unreputable breeder be drowned in a sack along with the uninformed new owner? It seems to be the message you are putting across.
I went about things the “right” way but that dosnt make me any better, it doesn’t make you any better and it certainly doesn’t make any person any worse for simply not knowing.
As a kid growing up in a city I always thought all dogs came from pet shops. For every breeder in my area there are at least 100 little shops in a mall selling puppies. Google “yorkie”, even “yorkie breeders” and at least 50 people you don’t want to buy a dog from pop up.
So someone made the mistake of purchasing a dog from a breeder that TRICKED them into thinking they were doing the right thing, should we damn that dog and the new owner, especially if coming here in hopes to learn about this breed and how to CARE for it?
If you woke up today and logged on to nag and complain then at least try to find the right place to do so, because if I never read another line about where to purchase a dog and how to do it “the right way” I would die a happy woman. Again, most of the people on this site ALREADY OWN a yorkie.
If your on a mission to educate there are much better places and ways to do it. Common sense would say to target people who have YET to purchase a dog.
Yes, so some of this anger is spilling out from privious posts. Perhaps if this is the only "breeder" "buying" "bought" tread you have read, it might not make sence, I just cant hold it in anymore.
Arg. So freaking done with this conversation.
I’m now off to go drop off some old towels from my hotel to our local animal shelter instead of read piss and vinegar from people that do nothing.

I was well informed when I bought my puppy. I spent months on YT to learn and realized a lot of members on here know what they are talking about. I did RESEARCH, not just a Google mind you and used common sense. Give me a break with the elitist name calling.

:mad: Perhaps you should do some research and you'd learn that many people do view this forum to learn before they purchase and yes many others learn afterward. Still it's all a learning process and Yorkie Talk is here to teach the uninformed and re-teach the ones who need the learn the right way. Get it?

....and to Miss Lula-Mae Famous and others who think it is unneccessary to have threads like these... the OP was posting about an abused former female that was used for breeding. Things like this NEED to be posted and breeders like this need to be OUTED. If these facts upset you then perhaps you should ignore these type of threads and keep pretending that these horrible situations don't exist. With this attitude you are letting us know that you condone these abusive behaviors and practices. :eek: Now THAT is something to take into consideration!

I almost feel as though I should quote and highlight my entire post becuase you seems you did not bother to read the whole thing.

Very well said. I agree entirely.:thumbup:

It seemed to me that you were upset because this is another thread outing a unethical breeder and you are tired of people outing them, thinking they are being rude and calling the ones who talk about bad breeding and bad ethics elitist. Am I wrong?

I respect your opinion & I understand your anger & frustration. However, I also need you to understand that I had a hard time posting this thread & thought against it, but needed to...I felt it was the right thing to do.
These girls were neglected in some form. Tooth decay shouldn't happen on a 3 yr old, yet it does happen quite often. One of them has knees so bad, she shouldn't be bred at all.
Now, as previously stated, I need the breeder to get in contact w/my friend so we can hear her side of the story. My friend also needs to let her know the condition of one girl that needs surgery for her knees, just in case she's not aware of it. I don't see how that is possible...her knees popped every time I picked her up, however gently I tried.
Yes, I could have gone through this w/out posting publicly here. I've never had the chance of experiencing something like this personally & sought help & advice from experienced members. They've all been supportive & understanding. I Thank them for that, if that means they're in an 'elite' group, I believe that's their hard work & dedication & they deserve it.

Jenny, I can't imagine what a difficult decision it was for you to start this thread. You are one of the nicest, most compassionate, truly classy people I know. I know nothing about this breeder or her program, & I honestly hope everything turns out fine when you talk to her. But, I do know you must be truly concerned about other pups welfares for you to post this story and share publicly. Thank you.

In other words, you can’t change the past. Look toward the future and try to prevent, not lecture people on what they can’t change.

and... instead of sitting here on your computer complaining about the world, go out and make a difference.

I apologize if in my anger I did not come across as clearly as needed for you to understand but perhaps instead of ripping into my post you should have started by asking me what I meant prior.
As a fellow member, I of course own, love and care for my own yorkie as well as the wellbeing of other animals.
If you can point out one person on this site that condones puppy mills or backyard breeding and outwardly posts in favor of it then I guess I deserved the attack rather than asking me to explain myself.

First, let me state that this is not directed towards anyone specifically, I just wanted to clarify why we post these kinds of things on here. Any of us can get into this situation at anytime. I found YT when I was first looking for a yorkie. I had found a breeder near me that I thought was a good breeder. They seemed nice and offered a good price for what I thought was a good dog. I didnt know anything about warning signs or what to look for until I came to this site. I learned so much, and found posts on the same breeder. I found where her dogs were inbreed, were mixbreeds, and produced litters with genetic defects. Because of this I chose not to support this breeder. She kept my deposit and I went on to find Roxy with a respectible breeder. If I had not come across this site I would not have made that decision. Yes, I would have a dog that I loved with my entire heart and took care of and spoiled. But, I would have also placed money in the hands of an unethical breeder and gave her an opening for new pups. I am not anti-breeder AT ALL, I just think that we need to share our experiences with bad breeders so that others do not make the same mistake. If someone hadn't posted their bad experience I would not have made the decision that I made.

I am sorry that this situation happened and from what I read, this breeder has a good reputation. Things happen, especially in a bad economy.

As for YT, we are never going to stop posting about unethical breeders. It might upset some people, but it might open the eyes to some as well. Stickies are great for keeping us informed, but do not allow for us to share out new experiences or comments. That is what threads are for. There is a thread for breeder reviews and yes, maybe these kinds of discussions should go there. I think that is up to admin to decide though. Trust me, they will move it if they see the need. ;)

[QUOTE=mimimomo;3091552 Now, this poor girl will have a peaceful happy life w/her new loving family. Many are not so lucky.

If you're looking for a new puppy, please please please do your research. Make sure you get the pup from a reputable breeder. Don't support these unethical 'breeders'. Stop this cycle of abuse.[/QUOTE]

Great post!!! Glad to hear she is in a loving home now.:thumbup::thumbup:

How much money is involved here?
 

Did you pay money for these dogs? Your friend adopted two dogs from you, then returned them because she couldn't handle them, then went out and adopted two more and now shaking the breeder down for money?

This is not about money. My friend has nothing to do w/this post. I did not start this thread w/intentions of shaking down this breeder. I understand this is a very touchy subject & Rose's hard work & devotion to the Yorkie breed is at stake here. Once again, I plead w/you, those that feel the need to get emotionally involved, to step away. I am working on getting her side of the story. This will not be a one biased sided event & I will thread softly.

Rose has not contacted my friend who has called her & left messages numerous times. She is not looking for monetary help, she's very well off & her recent surgery has not left her disabled. It's very disheartening that I feel the need to explain her situation...:(
I have just spoke w/her & asked her to let Rose know about Fanny's knees & that she will need surgery. I feel a breeder should know, since she did not mention any of this to a person who was adopting her dogs. She did tell me that Rose wanted the two girls to be spayed & not to be used for breeding.

I didn't even know what a "sticky was" until I'd been here about a month. So posts like this were ones I eventually started to read.

I was very lucky to have had the opportunity to be around a breeder of yorkies, who also trains them in obedience, and my own working breed. So I learnt about Yorkies from watching them being trained, knew my breeder very well, from 3 years of training with her. But still before I purchased a pup from her, I went to both the YTCA and YTCC sites to look up health concerns on yorkies. We sat down together and went through the list of health concerns, she showed me vet certificates, OVC test results, Bats, etc. I had watched Razz's mom practice/compete in agility and obedience for three years, I ask for and got the registration details on Razz's sire, and saw pics of him at shows etc.

My situation was ideal with-in which to purchase a puppy. Only better is if I had got to see and watch Razz's sire grow and be trained too. But still here I am, trying to learn more about this adorable breed, to be able to care and train my boy to the highest standards.

Breeders whose standards have slipped, who neglect some very basics of professional puppy and owner care do need to be discussed. Having said this, at this point I believe the thread needs to be given a rest period until the breeder is heard from. There maybe overarching personal or business concerns at this point/time in her life that makes it difficult for her to respond in a timely fashion.

But you ripped into all who where posting on here against this breeders bad practices, not even thinking of the poor dog that she sold unspayed , that was abused. :confused: And then called us elitist. This is what YT is for...to continueously inform the uninformed, teach, learn, and support. It's not just all about the warm and fuzzies of owning a Yorkie. Looking forward to a better future is great, but allow people to do that with knowledge of what to expect from the good and bad choices out there.

Gez, I don't know what thread you were reading - but it wasn't THIS one. This thread is about a BREEDER that has dogs from a lot of well known kennels and 2 of the dogs she sold. Where on earth did you see someone saying anything to the new owner? :confused: Maybe YOU should go back and read the thread from the beginning!

Oh yes there have been people come on here and say that they condone puppymills and byb's so even though you have a Yorkie, already, it sounds as though you could still use this forum for some more information.

I guess you'll never wake up a happy woman because trying to inform the public about "how to purchase a puppy" and "how to find a good breeder" will always be topics on this kind of forum.

And as suggested - if you don't like the content of these threads - don't read them.

I dont want you to think in anyway that this is not a sad story where it seems as though this puppy is getting the help it needs which is a very beautiful thing.

Volenteering in a foster home for abused dogs I have seen my share of dogs in really rough shape. Its enough to drive a person insane. You just cant fathom how a person could... Its heartbreaking.

I cant do it anymore becuase it hurts too much.

I can understand you wanting to share your story. Its not you, your friend or the story that made me angry. I hope you didnt think I was attacking you.

Perhaps admin should seriously consider a sticky for this as there are probably hundreds of threads regarding this topic.
Perhaps members that are truley upset by these stories have possible ideas on what could be done to stop them. Breeders should be held to a higher standard than what they are getting away with (especially for what they are charging!)

My father has bred dogs my whole life and has not once made a profit from it (in fact, I'm sure on many occassions he has lost money). His dogs have more awards on the wall than I ever did. He cares about the breed. Im not saying breeders should give their dogs away, just that with prices as high as they are people will look for alternatives.
Finding a good breeder is a very very tricky thing.

Where have you been all week?

What bad practices?
 

A reputable breeder is being maligned here on some pretty flimsy charges for having placed adult dogs--bad teeth--bad knees. Yorkies are prone to bad teeth, and extractions at 3 years old are not uncommon. Bad knees also are common as they get older, and how the knees got bad is the breeder's business. The thing I find the most questionable about this breeder is how on earth she ended up placing these dogs with this particular person.
I'm asking again, HOW MUCH DID YOUR FRIEND PAY FOR THESE DOGS?

The first post stated the following:

(I've been busy the past few weeks yorkie sitting for a dear friend. She just adopted a Yorkie girl that was used for breeding. She's been bred twice (from what the breeder says:rolleyes:) & both those times, had c-sections. She wasn't spayed after her 2nd c-sect. All her pups from the 1st litter died bc of over medication by the vet. 2nd litter, only one out of 4 survived...(not a money maker, so she let her go).
Her teeth were so bad, the worst plague build up I've ever seen. Her knees pop every time I picked her up. She's not house broken. She 'marks' all my fur babies' pee & poo. She paces endlessly back & forth, back & forth, making me dizzy. I believe this is from being in a crate most of her life (24-7).:(

Surprisingly, her AKC pedigree is filled w/Champions, including some very famous lines, which I won't name.)



Who cares about the price...even if she was a freebie...This is not a good sign! And to have let her go unspayed is just wrong.

Although I agree that a monetary exchange would not be good in this situation, it does not have anything to do with it. The concern is over the breeder who continued to breed her even after a cesarian and also rehomed her without getting her spayed. Had she rehomed her to someone unethical they could have turned around and cause that poor baby to go through another (or many) cesarian and put the poor baby through torture. Had she been truly concerned about the dogs well being she would have spayed her. $10.00 or $1,000 really has nothing to do with the problem in the rehoming strategy (in this case). It would make it worse, but has no value in this.

The problem with a sticky is that they are closed for comments. However, there is a breeder review forum that could be used.

Do you know Rose personally? Why the unending question about money? She's not looking for monetary compensation nor is she seeking help. My friend is going to pay for Fanny's surgery, she is her dog now & under her care. I am the one that posted this w/out her consent. Leave her out of it please.
My friend is an angel. She's always adopted older retired breeding girls from breeders & never talked bad about the breeders. She's never had puppies. When she came to me & saw Princess & Turbo, she fell in love w/them. We both cried bc she has just lost one of her dear adopted yorkie who was 15, blind, deaf & couldn't walk. The reasons why she returned them to me was truly unselfish & she thought it was better for them. Once again, I'm in tears explaining her situation.

You didn't see their teeth. The upper half was covered in disgusting brown plague...should've taken a picture. I don't understand why she's not returning phone calls after they've been dropped off.

Since this is going nowhere & obviously upsetting some people (including myself), I am going to ask this thread to be closed. My intention was never to reveal who the breeder was nor did I want to 'shake her down'. I don't want her reputation ruined for some 'flimsy charges'. I guess it has to be more cruel & inhumane.

I will update if we ever hear from her. I feel she needs to explain the situation. Maybe her show dogs are impeccable, but the breeding bitches are treated w/less care.

I don't think that way at all, that I thought you were attacking me. Thank You for your honest & refreshing post. I applaud you for your loving volunteer work. You just might be up there w/ the 'elites' in my book.;)
I truly believe that a good breeder never makes money, but loves doing it for the breed.