Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs (Post 2986203)

Brister you took what I said completely out of context and compared yorkies to ALL breeds.

I live in the desert where cactus is not only natural landscaping, but preferred. People have them lining the sidewalks. Not just that but goat heads grow wild here. If my yorkies had a full tail and fur on it and went wagging, they'd have 1000 goatheads or thorns from cactus stuck all up in their tails. Sanitary reasons YES--dogs with fur like Yorkies have their butt fur clipped really short so POOP doesnt stick to it.....I could only imagine what an unsanitary MESS a yorkie with a full tail, 2 inches of hair and an episode of diarrhea would cause. Your being 110% closed minded....

Yes-yorkies with full tails have injured them before as well.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 2986108)

You'll never see a show breeders/exhibitors position because you have no interest in it so your mind is closed to what we have to say and you have your mind so set against what we do...so therefore it probably never will come to you or will you get it. It's sad when one's mind stays so closed minded...Maybe you prefer puppymill/petstore or byb yorkies instead of what we put behind our breeding program?

Donna

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs (Post 2986203)

Brister you took what I said completely out of context and compared yorkies to ALL breeds.

I live in the desert where cactus is not only natural landscaping, but preferred. People have them lining the sidewalks. Not just that but goat heads grow wild here. If my yorkies had a full tail and fur on it and went wagging, they'd have 1000 goatheads or thorns from cactus stuck all up in their tails. Sanitary reasons YES--dogs with fur like Yorkies have their butt fur clipped really short so POOP doesnt stick to it.....I could only imagine what an unsanitary MESS a yorkie with a full tail, 2 inches of hair and an episode of diarrhea would cause. Your being 110% closed minded....

Yes-yorkies with full tails have injured them before as well.

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 2986208)

You shouldn't take offense, it's really not that serious. I'm not calling you dumb. I did read through the rest of your posts and I just can't find any of those reasons good enough to cut off their tails. Everyone has their own opinions, obviously and there's no right or wrong.

I have known A LOT of dogs throughout my life, all of whom had tails, and they have never had ANY of the issues you posted with tails. I just don't think it's big enough of issues to dock a tail or every breed would've ended up having a docked tail throughout the years. Sure, my aunt's Pit Bull has a strong tail when he wags it, but I don't think it's good enough reason to not HAVE it.

I would probably think that 99% or 100% of our yorkies on this website are NOT official rat hunters or working dogs. So I just don't see that to validate docking tails.

I mean, it is done purely for cosmetic reasons to appease to a human standard. I don't see how anyone can argue that? And that's the reason I don't agree with it.

I don't see docking as cruel necessarily. I don't think it's ever traumatized a dog for life or anything and yeah, they forget it right after. My issue with it is that it's simply to appease the human eye.

I'm sorry if you took my posts offensively, it's just something I feel strongly about, just as you feel strongly that we should dock tails.

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2986221)

Let me see if I understand this - I say I disagree with tail docking, I say I disagree with a lot of common wisdom on show breeding, I state my reasons why. Then, rather then debate my points, you tell me I'm closed minded and must be pro-puppy mills. :rolleyes:

Not to toot my own horn, but I am pretty open-minded, and I'm not just going to take someone's word for it because They Should Be Believed. If you really have a case, back up your arguments well, THAT'S what will convince people. Insulting someone or writing them off just means you can't defend your position.

And for me, that's where statements like, "If you truly love the breed, you should xxx." I love ALL dogs, but that doesn't mean I turn off my mind! No disrespect to Nancy1999, I know we disagree on this issue, and I think from her other posts I know where she is coming from.

And for the record, people I love and respect have posted here in support of tail docking. Still don't agree with it though.

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 2986214)

I'm 110% close minded? Ooohhkay.

I have a Yorkie with a full tail and poop has NEVER been an issue. Why? because I keep him clean and groomed. I live out in the country as well and he's always running thru the fields. His tail has never been an issue. Yes, because my yorkie has a full tail, he's an unsanitary mess every time he poops. :rolleyes: Talk about close-minded.

Regardless if there is a tail there or not, if there is 2 inches of hair around a Yorkie's butt, I think it's not gonna be a pretty sight!

And okay, some yorkies probably have injured their tails before. But none that I've ever read about or heard about. Yorkies also can injure their legs, so let's just chop it off?

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs (Post 2986231)

I guess you wouldnt understand as you dont live in the desert with your dogs. My opinion of tail docking has nothing to do with cosmetics..it has to do with the yorkie standard AND my preference especially because I live in a desert community and its important to the health of MY yorkies. If I lived in a different area of the country and AKC changed the standard, then I'd quit docking.

I think Im about done with this thread....people see things ONLY their way and in THEIR circumstances.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2986236)

Part of the reason you haven't read about it is because they have been docked for years, so there wouldn't be any problem with breakage. Many breeds especially yorkies, have very thin tails towards the tip, and they are easily broken. Just because your dogs don't have this problem, it doesn't mean it's not a breed problem. I think in the next few years we will have lots more information on how common breakage is because so many countries have banned tail docking. Just because other countries have banned it, it doesn't tell me, this is the right thing to do. I hope the standard doesn't change until we know both the pros and cons. In the meantime, people are free to make up their own minds about what they believe is best. Those of you who are against docking can buy dogs with undocked tails. I guess I just don't understand the need to tell the rest of us what we should do.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2986236)

Part of the reason you haven't read about it is because they have been docked for years, so there wouldn't be any problem with breakage. Many breeds especially yorkies, have very thin tails towards the tip, and they are easily broken. Just because your dogs don't have this problem, it doesn't mean it's not a breed problem. I think in the next few years we will have lots more information on how common breakage is because so many countries have banned tail docking. Just because other countries have banned it, it doesn't tell me, this is the right thing to do. I hope the standard doesn't change until we know both the pros and cons. In the meantime, people are free to make up their own minds about what they believe is best. Those of you who are against docking can buy dogs with undocked tails. I guess I just don't understand the need to tell the rest of us what we should do.

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 2986239)

Cindy posted above that she never had any more issues with her dogs w/ tails than she did with the ones without. My grandma also lives in AZ and had a Golden (yes, I know, not a Yorkie) who had long flowing hair off her tail and never had problems, either.

But it's not a huge deal. It's just a neverending argument that happens again and again here on YT and I don't know why I always chime in.

Maybe I could have used better wording and not said your reasoning for docking was dumb. It's just not something I see a necessity for, desert or not, but like I said, that's my personal opinion. You have your preference and opinion. And that's fine. That's what's great about debates.

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2986248)

Ha! These topics are like Oreos for me. I don't even like Oreos, but if they're around, I always eat too many.

No disrespect to Oreos. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by alisonJ (Post 2986235)

I agree with the OP. I would like to see tail docking discontinued everywhere. It will take a while, but I believe it will happen.

I also believe, along with what the OP quoted, that very young puppies DO experience pain. While they might not cry out, there are other ways that pain can be expressed (i.e. increased heart rate, breathing rate, etc).

In 2005, when I first posted on this issue, no one agreed with me that tail docking should be discontinued. But the tide is changing. Every time we have this discussion, more people are in the anti-docking camp. It is an interesting evolution of thought.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2986253)

Not true...I agreed with you...Hugs..

I am really impressed with the Boxer Club of America because of the conversations/changes they are making with all of this...I am sure it had something to do with the breeder/handler that was in the top 10 dogs in the US a couple of years ago.

While I hate tail docking I find ear cropping even worse...but the bottom line is I don't think it should be done if it is just cosmetics...we wonder why we have issues when people make decisions just for cosmetic reasons...