sugars mom, u are one off the great breeders, and u care deeply for ur furbabies, i believe that is the way it shud be :D

This thread shows me that there is still much misunderstanding in breeding. Of course the majority of breeders are doing it for profit, I recommend someone find a breeder who isn't profit motivated, and is really doing right by the breed, but the some of the things you mention are not harmful to the breed overall, and specifically not harmful to the individual dogs. Non-profit motivated breeders are breeding dogs where they know the line, and have done health testing; they are doing whatever they can to ensure that they are not producing pups that are going to weaken the Yorkshire Terrier Breed. They sell limited registration, with few exceptions, and then only after knowing another breeders breeding program for years. They sell the dogs to the best homes, not the highest bidder, and take time finding a home for their offspring, and ex-breeders. They don't breed whatever dog they have, and know that only certain dogs are meant to be bred. A breeder is more than a "pet owner," much more, and thank goodness we have some wonderful dedicated breeders or all we would have are puppy mill dogs and backyard breeder's dogs. The backyard breeder, tends to only have a couple of dogs, but is purely profit motivated, they in no way are doing what's best for the breed, and don't have any idea whether their own dogs are passing genetic faults or are even within standard. Standard is important because it's what sets the Yorkie apart from other breeds, and dogs that closely meet standard are much more likely to get placed if they end up in a rescue, so breeding to standard saves dog's lives.

I think some of you might find it interesting to read this thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...all-began.html. I think it's important that you understand breeding is a passion for some, it much more than a way to produce an income. Obviously, a good pet home is a much nicer environment that a breeding home, but I think some of you are criticizing good breeders unfairly. Arbitrary rules given in this thread, such as a dog should be bred twice and then retired, make absolutely no sense. There is nothing wrong with a breeder finding a good home for an ex-breeder, the qualities that make a good breeder (human or canine) are rare indeed, and some of you seem to think any human would be a good breeder, and anyone can purchase a dog that would be good breeding potential, and this is very far from the truth. I encourage everyone to visit the breeder's home in person to see what type of kennel conditions exist, and to decide for yourself whether this is the sort of breeder you wish to support. However, threads such as this, are unfairly criticizing good breeders. Sadly, it's still legal to euthanize a dog if it's no longer useful to them. This person paid for a spaying and paid for an ad in the paper, and probably will not get the price of the spaying from anyone, yet she is criticized. Is the situation ideal, no of course not, but I would rather this happen than every Tom Dick and Harry breeding whatever dogs they have as pets.

i understand what u are saying, and some breeders do an amazing job,, an i do love the way some have the pups neutered before they go to new homes, i cant believe that euthinasia is legal i find that heartbreaking really, its when u read that its not used to children etc,,, and the age, off course there is gonna be pet lovers that feels hurt, its a fine line really,, :)

I can see good and bad in this ad. I see that she is concerned for the dog to find a nice home, however, I don't agree with the fact that she is sorta pushing her out since she is getting older, and can't breed her anymore....but, all in all, i hope the JRT finds a nice home! :cool:

Actually I feel kind of bad for her. Im not a breeder so I dont know how these things work, but if I breed my female dog, I would keep her until she passed not giver her away or sell her because she cant breed anymore.. that is just my opinion, it may be naive but I wouldnt give up my baby

Thats the point I was trying to make too.

this is a good post. What most people don't understand that those of us that do it like you are talking about, make very little money, if any. This thread smacks of people that would love to do away with breeders period. Altho their little pet puppies had to come from somewhere.

Although I don't agree with giving away your dog once your done using them. I personally couldn't do it, but I'm glad she's trying to find her a good home.

I think you are being very unfair to, what you refer to as BYBs. I prefer "hobby breeder", and I have yet to make any kind of a profit. I breed because I enjoy breeding, but I'm sure not going to get rich from it. I do not breed to all of the YTCA standards, but I do breed healthy, good tempered, well socialized dogs.

Not all "bybs" are created equal, and not all show breeders have the best interest of the breed in mind. they are not doing it for profit, they are doing it for the "Blue ribbon".

Many breeds have health issues due to the selective show breeding. If the dog is a champion on the outside, many show breeders do not care what is going on, on the inside.

Judges know that dogs with flat faces have breathing issues, yet the flatter the face the more likely they are to win the ribbons. GSDs crouch because their hind quarters are weak, GSDs of the past did not have that crouch. King Charles Spaniels have weak hearts deafness and siezures due to their flat skuls, but the flatter the skull the better the chance of winning.

So to all of you who do not know better, don't let the title "show breeder' fool you.

There are good and bad hobby breeders and good and bad show breeders.

In fact many show breeders have quit showing because they did not like the way the breed was going. But they enjoy breeding so now they are considered BYB's.

This topic is a difficult topic because there are so many components to it. I think it is sad when the quality of life of a dog is decreased because it is a breeder. But on the other hand we can't fairly group all breeders together. I understand when breeders have to find dogs that are a part of their breeding program a home.
Lace was a breeder. She had one litter and required a C-section, so she was fixed and she found her way into our family. The breeder was not concerned about money, she was fixed, up to date on everything including a vet check. Lace's first mommy was not throwing her aside. She was just as a part of that family as any of the other dogs. She was spoiled and loved and well taken care of. When it was time for her to come home (with my sister) the breeder and her family was there to see her off. We give her updates all the time with pictures. We are all going to visit soon so she can see them all in person.
So I don't see the problem with breeders re-homing their breeding dogs. I can see if the dog was not fixed, not up to date on anything and the breeder was casting their dog away to the first bidder. In this particular situation...of course it is not ideal. I couldn't imagine a dog living outside of a home. But I also don't agree with outside dogs. I can see having a doggie door giving the dog access to outside but a strictly outside dog is sad. This breeder seems to have a set up to make her dogs comfortable...with the Ac/heating etc... I find it sad the way she worded it. But I find her situation, while not ideal, better than most. The dog is fixed, current on vaccinations, and she is not asking an outrageous price for a purebred dog...$50...in my opinion she should be asking more because anyone off the streets can pay that much. If you go to a rescue they are asking a lot more than that. I can see the point of view of thinking that breeders are in it for the money and don't care about their animals....but you cannot whole heartedly say that about all. There are breeders out there that spend all they have to save one of their babies, that stay up all night long trying to keep that little one alive, that do it because they truly love and want to preserve the breed. Just because you don't show, I don't think that makes you a miller or a BYB.
When I picked my breeder I was looking for someone that truly cared for their yorkies. No she doesn't show...but she does the required testing that every breeder should do, she loves every single yorkie that is in her home and that she has brought into this world. She answers every question that I have ever had pop into my head; she was there for me when I vowed never to get another dog. She does use the term "tinies", "teddy bear face", and "teacup" from time to time, but I know she loves this breed. She keeps her yorkies in her home and raises them all as if she was keeping them forever and makes sure they find great homes. She has had people offer her ridiculous amounts of money and still stood her ground when she decided they were not the perfect home for her yorkies. So to say that they are in it for the money may be true for some, but we can't group every breeder into one category.

Sorry for the rant...but this topic has come up time and time again...

Dogs adapt fairly quickly to new homes. Just go ask the humane society that have to place many older dogs. This breeder had enough compassion to want her older dog to have some loving undivided attention which is hard when you have several dogs. Having her spayed also tells how compassionate she is also telling all she knows about her not pulling the wool over anyones eyes. A JRT and most small dogs can sometimes live to eighteen yrs old. So lets actually give her kudos for spaying her and trying to find a good home for her to be spoiled rotten and not dropping her off at the pound. You would not believe how many people email me to ask if I have an adult available. They do not want to raise a puppy. Adult dogs actually learn quicker than a puppy. So lets give her some credit for being a responsible breeder. I am sure if you talked to the people who have this dog's puppies they would say they were so glad they found her and their little puppy is the best gift to come into their life. Sue

I do not believe that this is the summation of the feelings being displayed here. I do not know you, or know what kind of breeder you are.
What I do know is that there are 3 past-prime, previously used for breeding, female yorkies in a rescue I am affiliated with, and each of them were brought in by so called, "quality" breeders who could not sell them once their breeding time was at an end. When asked why they were being brought to the rescue, their answers were all the same. "I don't have room/time for my darling girl anymore, as I have a new female to breed, and this one is no longer in breeding age".

So I ask again, and no one seems to want to respond.

What do you think she is going to do with her darling , and I quote,
"She has been my best producing female " if she cannot sell her?

I can tell you; she will end up in a rescue like mine, and someone who is humane will take her home and take over the responsibility that was the original owners; the person who made money off her health and puppies.

I am in no way insinuating that this is how you behave with your animals, but clearly, it is the way a lot do. So, while most might not understand about breeding... believe me, I surely understand what it takes to clean up the mess that is left.

Great post. Thank you for offering another perspective on this problem.

My Husband and I rehome a JRT when the owner was unable to take her back, my husband wanted to keep her, I on the other hand knew the JRT breed from other people and I wanted no part of it. My husband won out and Gracie stayed she was 3 yrs old and crazy as a loon, still is and she has tried my patience to no end. to be honest I have thought of trying to rehome her still after 3yrs of her being with us, it's just a threat I could never do it because I know she would be rehome again and again, she is that difficult at times, but she can be good at times and she always has a sweet nature, so I just bite my lip and say bad words under my breath and count to 50 when she gets the best of me.

If breeders did not rehome their retired breeders, eventually there qwould be no more puppies for us yorkie lovers to buy. Then the price of retired breeders would go up because people would be willing to pay for them since they can't get puppies.

I know there are a lot of them being taken to rescues, but I doubt that those breeders tried hard to rehome them.

There are a lot of people out there wanting adult purebred dogs that have been taken care of.

People often do not want rescue dogs because so many of them come with problems. But are delighted to get a dog that has been spay/neutered, teeth cleaned and is in excellent condition.

Puppy millers cannot rehome theirs because they are terrified, matted, unsocialized, and the list goes on.

I rehomed a stud after I had him neutered and teeth cleaned. I gave him to a previous buyer who wanted a second dog but could not afford one. So he went to a home that was delighted to get him. My biggest concern for him was to get him into a home with another dog since he was used to being with other dogs.

When I say backyard breeder, I mean one small step up from a puppy mill. I think the general consensus is that a small home breeder is the polar opposite of a puppy mill, and my point is that a backyard breeder is not a good place to buy your dog from either. These dogs may live in a person's home, but this person has spent little time studying about the breed, and breeding. They sell their pets to anyone with the money and don't care if a yorkie is not the right match with that particular family. They tend to breed whatever they have on hand, accidentally or on purpose. Hobby breeding, on the other hand, is the type of breeder I choose to support. Hobby breeders love reading and learning about their hobbies, they always want to learn more and hone their skills. Hobbies are a passion, but few people make money from them, and should never be the goal for the hobby. I don't believe just because someone doesn't show they are a backyard breeder. I'm only saying that many loving dedicated breeders find good homes for their exbreeders, and we should not judge someone as a breeder, just because they rehome retired breeders.

I think you like any others have a misconception of what many rescues and the dogs that they have really are all about. Yes, some rescues "specialize" in just mill rescues but many dogs that are in rescues right now are owner surrenders. With the economy the way that it is people are not able to properly take care of their pets and the lucky ones that are not dropped off at the local shelter or left behind are turned over to rescues. It is very sad how many wonderful little yorkies are just waiting at a rescue for a new loving home because their family could no longer take care of them.

If more people were aware of what wonderful pets a rescue really could be more people would be willing to adopt. :(

I am relatively new to YT, and this is one of the toughest topics I see keep coming up, but here goes... All breeders are not equal, whatever you call them - hobby, backyard, or puppymills. I grew up with my parents breeding German Shepherds and Rotties. Most parent clubs of purebreed AKC clubs ask breeders to include clauses in their contracts for the dogs to be returned to the breeder NOT SHELTERS. These reputable breeders are very concerned with where their dogs are for their entire lives. That life may be in the breeders home or a pet home, and yes, some dogs get retired. I know breeders who have set up wills and have arranged with other breeders, who share their bloodlines, etc.. to be responsible for the dogs after their own passing or inability to continue as a breeder/shower. I know breeders who can not part with their adults and those who do so reluctantly. My personal acquaintances are often more concerned about adult placements because "everyone loves a puppy." Since most purebred dogs in pet homes still come from pet stores and chains (they support the larger breeder operations which are mostly the puppy mills we often see raided in the news) there are no return policies. I am not saying that there aren't some nice dogs in rescue, only that they came through someone who did not followup or keep in touch with their breeder or came from a NO RETURN policy place. If they contacted their breeder - and that person is among the respectable breeders -that dog would not end up in rescue. Breeders placing a dog in rescue is not responsible breeding. Our contracts spelled out responsibilities of the owners which included basic obedience - no one wants a dog with bad habits. Breeders can do all in their power to find a good home and assure it a safe place to be returned, but they can't make the owner return it or rehome it responsibly. Dogs that find their way into rescue are not the fault of responsible breeders - irresponsible pet owners are.

I agree with all that you have said EXCEPT for you last sentence. Dogs that end up in rescue are not the fault of responsible breeders :thumbup: irresponsible breeders who do not have lifetime contracts just should not be breeding and of course irresponsible pet owners as well. Then you have the sick dogs that are bred by those irresponsible breeders being purchased by uneducated pet owners. All adds up to a HUGE mess!:(

I agree...it all starts with the breeders. I do not believe we would have the pet overpopulation if the breeders were forced to take back their dogs they bred and then find them new homes. I am sure there are only a handful here on YT that have this commitment.

I have always said if the breeders had to pay the price for the shelters and rescues then the numbers of dogs bred every year would go down drastically. It has become very acccepptable that dogs and cats are products to be sold, used and thrown away.

Reputable breeders will always take their dogs back and find them a good home and they have stated this in their contract and they make sure the new owner understands this.

Why do people always forget that to some this is they way they make a living. No matter how we feel about our's, or how we feel about breeding: you must admit that it "sounds" like she was a good breeder.

To me, this is no worse than the owners that give them up because:

1) moving
2) baby/s on the way
3) chews, pee's, poops
4) NOT RESEARCHING THE BREED!!

4 a) then the buyer/owner is all shocked that the lab/german shepard/ (insert any breed here) is more time/money/effort than they can handle.

Don't let things like this upset you to bad. Their out there all over. I went and rescued 5 little ones last year because he was going to "get rid" of about half off his stock. (read kill)

I would much prefer to think that this animal was loved, even for her breeding abilities, and will get a nice couch to lay on for the remainder of her life.

As to the lifetime contracts. In our group we require that they be returned to the group if anything were to make the adopters surrender the animal. Guess what? Have you ever had to take one to court?

Our's did not stand up in the wonderful court of law.

**Yes..it was a SIGNED contract**

I respect everones opinion, as we all will have different takes on this. Maybe we should look at one positive note here, this little girl can now find a home where someone will give her the time, love, patience & understanding, to house train her, so she can know the warmth of a loving home, in her last years.

She will I am sure learn, when taught with love, surely it is better to look to a happy future, for this dear one.

Let's all hope & prayer she finds the right family, to give her the life we would all wish her to have .......

Having done Yorkie rescue out of Tucson I know what you are saying but it depends of which state you are in. Norhting will change until we get the laws changed.

I still say rescues need this in their contract and they need to stay in contact with the adopter so if something is going south maybe they have a chance of getting the dog back.

I do think many people on here do realize these poor animals are the ones bringing home the bacon ...and that puppies from these people are just product. While some members say, well at least this girl can now hopefully have a good home...I say we cannot accept this treatment of our companion animals. Dogs being kept in kennels just to produce puppies while we euthanize millions every year at the tax payer expense is wrong on many levels.

We have to keep working on changing our laws.

Sounds like my Lilly at least we broke her out before she was 3........

Up side... At least she didn't breed her to death. She got he spayed. She's trying to find someone who just might love her if the price is right. Makes me sad for all the years lost but hopeful that someone nice takes her in....

That\'s why my last sentence said "not the fault of responsible breeders". Emphasis on responsible. Good breeders seem to get lumped together with the bad, and there does not seem to be a distinction in some people\'s minds between the 2. I also agree with people who say we all need to be careful with our usage of terms: puppy mill, backyard breeder, etc, because not everyone is of the same opinion as to what constitutes the "good vs. bad " breeder. Most people can agree on the extremes at either end, but the middle gets blurred for some. If we didn\'t also have good breeders, who make sure not to breed dogs with hereditary problems - we all would not have nice healthy dogs too! I just think we need to encourage good breeders, educate the public and make sure the government doesn\'t regulate small scale responsible breeders out of existence. A lot of the proposed states have legislation that becomes so costly and restrictive, that only pet shops and puppy mills do enough "business" to pay the proposed fees for licenses, etc. As for the original reason for the post, it is good that this person is looking for a home that knows the circumstances of this dogs experience. No surprises. Full disclosure and we can\'t say that she didn\'t love her dog as much as any of us just because she kept her mostly in a climate controlled kennel. JMO.