I agree with Kalina about the blue born. I did read that you (OP) said you had read on here that some breed blue born dogs to strengthen the blue in their line. I think you may be mistaken. Some breed the red-legged yorkies to bring stronger color back in their line, but I have NEVER read anyone recommending breeding blue born to strengthen the blue. For one thing, it is not the same thing at all. Kalina has already explained a little about the blue born genetics and linked more info for you. I would read that and make sure you understand that a blue born should never be bred. Here is another reference to read on them: Top Yorkie Genetics Chocolate Yorkies Chocolate Yorkie Red Golden Blue Born Yorkshire Terrier

Almost every yorkie owner has had family and friends say they want a puppy from them. Let's face it -- Yorkies are adorable! Some of these people are even serious and not just saying what they wish or think is cute to say. But -- breeding a toy dog is serious business. It should not be entered into lightly or assumed that it is such a natural thing they will take care of it on their own. Since you say you do not want to be a breeder, then you should not breed, as you would then be a breeder, just not a very good one. To be a good breeder, you need to spend some time researching, reading, talking, absorbing, and studying the breed, mating, whelping, care and rearing of a litter, etc. You need to have your male and female tested for genetic conditions and diseases that can be passed on either to each other or their offspring. You need to have them evaluated by experienced breeders who are very knowledgeable and can compare them to the standards they should meet before reproducing. Just to have cute puppies, is not a reason to breed. There are plenty of cute puppies in the shelters and rescue organizations. Leave breeding to the ones who are willing to invest the time and energy to do it right.

Love your pups, spay/neuter them and relax. Those friends and relatives will live without one of your dog's pups. If they really wanted a yorkie that much, I figure they would probably go ahead and buy one of their own, regardless of you being able to hand them a free one. With all of the other stressors you have mentioned, this does not seem like a good time in your life to have puppies anyway and you certainly do not have an appropriate pair to mate.

Since you are not bonding with this female, I would take Manolos up on her offer to buy her now before either of you go through any more frustration. I do not think you are abusing her. I do think you are unhappy with her and I am sure she can sense that at some level. Better for her to go now to a new home and hopefully bond with a family that is right for her. I do think there are dogs that are not right for every family.

I have previously tried to talk people into being patient and working through problems with their new dogs. After more than one tragic result, I have changed my mind. If someone is unhappy enough to come on a Yorkie forum and say they are going to rehome their dog, then I think they should do it for the sake of the dog. So, I will not encourage you to work with her or seek training remedies. Since you have already voiced the desire to sell her as soon as you can get a litter from her, I would encourage you to forgo the breeding and rehome her now. Best for all concerned, imo. I have tried to make sure I have worded everything in such a way that you will really consider it and not react in the sarcastic, obviously irate way you originally responded. I don't want to make you mad, but do want you to take onboard the information and opinions I am relaying. Wish the best for all of you!

Did you honestly not expect a bad reaction after writing that?
Think before you type if you want positive feedback , there was no need to add the last 3 sentences, we all love dogs here .:(

I was just curious if you decided to sell her today?

I have read through this entire thread and would like to add one thing that I do not think was mentioned previously. Once you use Petey as a stud you can pretty much guarantee that he will MARK(pee) in your home. So even if you sell your female after her litter you will still have a dog that could quite possibly spend the rest of his life either in belly bands or marking indoors. Just a little food for thought.

I'm hoping that you have decided to reconsider your decision to have a litter of puppies for your friends and family. :(

Good point! How could I have not thought to mention that? Since I am going through that very problem with my once wonderfully house-trained Ben. Now, he likes to mark table legs and even wall corners. He is testing me big time on this. I was about ready to make an appointment to neuter him, but I am being talked out of it by everyone who sees him. He is a pretty boy but I can't deal with this marking thing!

:thumbup: Great post, Debra.

Same here. My Max is struggling with this as well, especially when he feels that he is alone (no humans) in the house (I think he has separation anxiety). He is Houdini and can almost escape from just about anything and when he does, he marks EVERYTHING. Its totally NOT fun scouring the house finding all his little markings every time he escapes when we are not home. :( Its been very trying.

Submissive Urination

The Dog Can't Help It

Thanks for this article. This is the kind of info I came here for. Maybe my natural instincts of not being emotionally tied to this dog were correct. But I have been fighting it, trying extra hard to connect. It is very hard to see a poor little animal cowering every time you look at her. Your natural human instinct is to comfort her. But I need to think in dog, not in human.

"This poor girl, has been through a lot in her short 2 years,no wonder she is submissive, used as a puppy machine $,and sold to a new owner, is reason enough for her to pee when scared or surprised.Good thing you were able to rescue her from unscrupulous hands and give her a good loving home .If the possibility of health problems is not an issue,she could be fixed and I'm sure with time, love and patience she will come around and you two will be able to bond"

I appreciate the fact that you think I might be of some good in this dogs life.

I do have issues with the bold statements quoted.
I guess only the breeders who post here are scrupulous? Have you been to her house? Seen her kennel? What in what I wrote led you to believe she is unscrupulous. All breeders will go out of the business or die at some point. What is to become of their breeding stock? Won't they sell them to people who want them as pets or to other breeders?

To say she was used as a puppy machine when she only had one litter is a little extreme in my opinion. Do the breeders who post here miraculously produce pups without their dams giving birth? Do they only ever breed their dams once? Why are they not unscrupulous?

Really, don't you think that you are insinuating a lot into something you do not know to be fact?

I'm not sure what the point is here. Are you saying that shy submissive dogs should or should not reproduce? As for your sister, she may be pregnant because she is submissive.(For the humorously impaired, that was a joke)

[QUOTE
I do have issues with the bold statements quoted.
I guess only the breeders who post here are scrupulous? Have you been to her house? Seen her kennel? What in what I wrote led you to believe she is unscrupulous. All breeders will go out of the business or die at some point. What is to become of their breeding stock? Won't they sell them to people who want them as pets or to other breeders?

To say she was used as a puppy machine when she only had one litter is a little extreme in my opinion. Do the breeders who post here miraculously produce pups without their dams giving birth? Do they only ever breed their dams once? Why are they not unscrupulous?

Really, don't you think that you are insinuating a lot into something you do not know to be fact?[/QUOTE]

No, not all breeders who post here are scrupulous which is sad but true. In answer to your question about breeding stock when they go out of business or die this is a very sad story also as many of these dogs go to auctions to be used over and over again from greeders. Some are even turned into shelters to be euthanized and some are taken out back and shot. The dog breeding world is not pretty and here are a couple of links you might want to look at.


Puppymills - auctions of dogs in commercial kennels.

You are right we have not been to this breeders house but how do you know she was telling you the truth? I don't mean any disrepect with this statement but we all know on here breeders lie all the time. How did you find her (the breeder)? What proof do you have this little girl only had 1 litter? Where do you think the dogs slept at night? How did the other dogs act when you came to the house? What did the lady do to quiet them down? Does this breeder have a website? Was she breeding other breeds? I ask these questions because frankly most Yorkies are not submission and will fight to the end and will bark their fool heads off if someone comes to the house. I do have one of my rescue's that is submission but she was beaten and tortured so she is frightened of her shadow. I have to take everything slow with her.

I do believe it would be cruel to her to have a litter as her brain is very scrambled for whatever reason.

How did you find her (the breeder)? What proof do you have this little girl only had 1 litter? Where do you think the dogs slept at night? How did the other dogs act when you came to the house? What did the lady do to quiet them down? Does this breeder have a website? Was she breeding other breeds?

I replied to a classified add. I went to her home. She and her husband were in the back yard washing dogs. The dogs (maybe 6 or 7) barked of course. They were not unruly and we ignored them. She had one female she pointed out to me that was soon to deliver. She had one 15wk female puppy for sale and Birdie. She told me that she was moving into the city to be closer to her son who had recently moved out and I guess she had empty nest syndrome. The woman lived in a mobile home near a lake. She had kennels under the mobile home and fans under there. She told me that she alternated the dogs, taking some into the house and putting others out. She kept the mothers and pups in the house. Birdie was housebroken so I suppose she was getting some attention.
All the dogs looked clean. She had complete vet records, recently dated wormer sticker on Birdies record. She told me about homeopathic supplements she used with her dogs. She told me she had bred Birdie once, there were no complications. How does one prove that a bitch has only been bred once? How would I know if that was a lie or not? Her tits are not distended, but it is obvious that she has nursed in the past. She said that Birdie had recently been in heat. She was obviously not bred at that time. She has not come into heat again and I have owned her about 3 months. The woman didn't appear to hide anything from me. She allowed me to see her breeding stock and where they live. She sold me a dog, she didn't auction it or abandon it, or have it euthanized. I don't know if she had a website or not. The only breed I saw were standard size Yorkies. So forgive me if I take issue with you characterizing her as unscrupulous. I didn't see any evidence to support that remark.

I DID NOT say this breeder was unscrupulous..I made a post to your point that you think (maybe.. maybe not) once breeders are done with their breeding stock they pet them out. NO they don't.

You prove a bitch has had x amount of litters from her registration papers...did you get any papers on her?

Now having read what you posted about this breeder keeping dogs under her trailer in kennels then this is a person to me that doesn't care about her dogs.:mad: Yorkies should never be treated this way....end of story.:thumbdown

OMG is this a joke, i cant believe what i have read, some bloody people just dont deserve pets:eek:

No, not all breeders who post here are scrupulous which is sad but true. In answer to your question about breeding stock when they go out of business or die this is a very sad story also as many of these dogs go to auctions to be used over and over again from greeders. Some are even turned into shelters to be euthanized and some are taken out back and shot. The dog breeding world is not pretty and here are a couple of links you might want to look at.


Puppymills - auctions of dogs in commercial kennels.

You are right we have not been to this breeders house but how do you know she was telling you the truth? I don't mean any disrepect with this statement but we all know on here breeders lie all the time. How did you find her (the breeder)? What proof do you have this little girl only had 1 litter? Where do you think the dogs slept at night? How did the other dogs act when you came to the house? What did the lady do to quiet them down? Does this breeder have a website? Was she breeding other breeds? I ask these questions because frankly most Yorkies are not submission and will fight to the end and will bark their fool heads off if someone comes to the house. I do have one of my rescue's that is submission but she was beaten and tortured so she is frightened of her shadow. I have to take everything slow with her.

I do believe it would be cruel to her to have a litter as her brain is very scrambled for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that video was very disturbing. :(

The living conditions of those poor pups that you just described is appalling. I cannot believe that you would even IMPLY that this person is scrupulous. If she keeps them under a mobile home and bathes them outside, I am suggesting that she sounds very UNscrupulous. She alternates them......suuuuure she does. Just the fact there is not enough room inside as she is suggesting tells me all I need to know about her little operation.
I hope she HAS gone out of business.
I am going back now to my original thoughts about all of this.
I won't repeat them...they were perfectly clear.
All of this thread is disgusting right down to you wanting to breed poor Petey.

I haven't read past here, so I don't know if anyone addressed this but as you do mention those are all submissive behaviors.

She's seeking your approval, constantly telling you she submits to you. She frantic for it (most likely because she did not get that attention previously.) She most likely eats her poo as a way to conceal herself (and her scent.)

All of the behavior mentioned correlates to being an accepted member of your pack. There is no easy fix for that. I am by no means going to sit here and tell you to re-home her! But, you may want to consider if its worth the stress for both of you considering your situation and stress level at the moment.

I personally don't doubt that she'd come around, but it'll take time and patience, work and realistically the cooperation of your entire household.

I dont even no what to say. :(... Im so upset for the little girl, where she use to live, the dogs that she use to live with and now only being held onto for breeding. My heart is just breaking.

Probably best for most of us to stop reading this thread since the OP clearly has no problem with the way this pup was living prior to her getting her; so, how in the world would we expect her to see what she is doing as unfair to the poor pup.

I still think there is more to this than meets the eye. If she only wanted information about submissive urination, why add the dirty embellishments?

I see things like this every day....it is heartbreaking but until pups are given more rights, there really is not much anyone can do. We cannot save them all as much as we would like to.

You just gave us evidence! I was close to saying that maybe too many were jumping the gun being accusatory to the original breeder before all the facts were known, but instead those who posted along those lines were evidently more perceptive than I was. At least they arrived at their conclusion before I did. You just gave testimony to the Yorkies maltreatment and what is appalling is that you did not even recognize that you had done it. Keeping a toy dog like a Yorkie under a trailer is not adequate. They are not dogs that are meant to be raised outside. They are house dogs that by their very nature need human companionship and nurturing. They can overheat very quickly in the summer heat and freeze easily in the winter extremes. Terms like "breeding stock" make me cringe. Tells a LOT about a person's feelings and attitude toward their dogs. A breeder does not need to depersonalize her Yorkies! A scrupulous breeder would never do that. If a person wants breeding stock, they should switch to livestock not pets!

Debra, THANK YOU FOR THIS. You hit the nail right on the head....

Cindy, I have never seen anything on any registration paper for any adult girl I have ever purchased. can you tell me where to look on the paper? Thanks. i have been given breeding records before tho. Just don't think it is on the registration certificate if that is what you mean. i do agree with your post. As soon as I read what she wrote about how this breeder keeps her dogs, I knew what kind of person this breeder is.

i agree that we all need to stop posting on this thread. it is apparent that the OP has no knowledge at all if she is wanting to breed a blue born boy to this poor little girl and it seems to me that she is unwilling to learn. just adds one more name to the list of of very unethical byb that will be putting sick puppies out to the uneducated public. if she had any feelings at all, both these dogs would be spayed, neutered and loved. Every time the op posts she is showing her true self and just how little she knows .

Sorry, that is what I meant ...breeding records. I was after what kind of paperwork she got from this greeder. :mad:

I do think it is important to get to the bottom of this so if the OP wants to sell her puppies here we know the truth.

Dee, I think it all about the $$$. That poor poor girl. I would take her in a minute.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

i agree. I started looking over all my certificates and realized all I have right now is my own breeding and I thought sshoot where would that info be. LOL

yes, poor girl and poor boy. Poor unsuspecting people that are going to have these babies.

when you pick her up don't come down on her with your hand. get to her level let her see your hand talk to her first make sure she knows you are there pet her head then slowly slowly pick her up. little dogs have this problem people just pick them up out nowhere they don't see it coming and they get scared. it probably started as a nervous habit and now that's just how she know to react to being picked up. you need to take it slow when you pick her up. go slow let her see your hand first talk to her even maybe give her a treat before you pick her up and when you pick her up give her a lot of praise. its hard to fix a dog of nervous peeing. she needs a home where their is not much noise, no children or other dogs. and the right people to give her the time she needs to get over this. breeding her is going to make her more anxious and being pregnant with any species puts pressure on the bladders so she is going to be peeing more so good luck with that.

Nice....really nice - living under a trailer park house ? I think I've heard it all now. No mention what state or maybe I missed it but the weather conditions can be EXTREME in most states - not to mention - living in cages under a house is just cruel. who cares what she told you - people LIE

Those poor dogs.

I hope the woman knows what the word KARMA means.