I have a situation- please give advice
 

I own the dam (Sadie 4 yrs old). ran into a neighbor that i used her sire for breeding (we were 1st time mommy). we agreed that she would take a puppy instead of a stud fee. she said he was registered both (AKC & CKC)???. my sadie is ckc. i did not check her papers. i know!!! trusted her and had met the sire's mother and father two years prior. now i have 4 wonderful furbabies that are today 6 wks old ( 2boys, 2 girls). ive called her several times trying to get a registered number for the sire. keep in mind my pups are 6 wks old. she finally called me back to say not only the sire was not registered but his mom and dad was not either. however she had been working on the grandparents for 3 wks and just got those papers in a few days ago.(AKC). assuring me that she has several generations all of AKC but just didn't take the time to register the sire i used. Aslo that she would have the sires paperwork in next week. well i was very upset. im only selling two of the puppies to family members but they do expect ckc papers. bottom line: shes told me one lie after the other. she even said today that she was selling her sire because she works and cant take care of two pups. I thought, you have no papers on the sire yet? i want my babies to have a good home and shes got me worried. my husband said call her back and tell her forget this ever happened that we woulds just keep all four pups and just try to cover my vet costs. what should i do? even is she does produce a registered number for the sire i still dont know if i want to give her a pup now. what will she do with this pup? im a very honest person and though i should have check her papers i wouldnt be in this mess. but she was very wrong telling me he was registered. im not in this for money. i just want a new pup from my baby girl and my kids wanted one as well. I feel SHE doesn't deserve a pup at all now. Lie, lie and more lies today.what do i do?

Since your dog isn't registered with the AKC, even if hers were registered, it still wouldn't allow you to be registered with the AKC. The AKC has strict registration requirement, and does do a through check to see if all the dogs were registered and had legitimate breeding rights. The CKC is much more lenient, and pretty much all you have to do is show pictures of the breeding pair, I think they will be register pretty much any dog, even mixed breeds, so I wouldn't worry about that, I don't think a CKC registration means anything, since you do not have to prove anything, and also you can not sell a dog without breeding rights, so every dog you sell automatically comes with breeding rights. As you may probably know, not every dog should be bred, and many people feel that unless a dog is a good representation of the breed, and has be thoroughly checked for a health risks, breeding is a poor idea. I'm sorry she lied to you, but this is so common with puppy buyers, they are always told that the dog is registered, but when they check up, they find this is often not the case.

If you question concerns whether you should keep your word even though she lied to you, I believe that you should still keep your word, and you have learned a valuable lesson, don't take anyone's word for something; check up on things yourself. It's really important to get both breeding dogs health screened and you should understand that your dog can get a sexually transmitted disease from the stud, and it's not wise to breed with just any dog that says yes.

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Maybe you can have her waive the "fee" of a pup because she lied to you or maybe you can just pay her instead. I'm not really sure why your family or whoever the pups were going to would care about CKC registration. There are good quality CKC dogs out there but the registry itself doesn't mean too much, IMO.

Since you have the pups and I am assuming there is no "written" contract, You pretty much hold all the cards. I would tell her how it is going to be. Pay her a fair stud fee for an unregistered dog and consider it a lesson learned. Breeding is very complicated in more ways than one.

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im not concerned with akc or ckc. yes, i do know their rules..because my momma is ckc my kids new that the pups would be registered ckc. ckc is fine with me. its just that the sires family told me he was registered when he was not. they told me lots of lies. that he was registered both ways. she confessed today that neither the sire nor his parents were registered but she would fix all that it would just take some time. do i believe her and how long do i wait for her to fix it?

I'd give heruntil the pups are old enough to rehome and if she hasn't gotten it straightened out by that time then don't give her the pup.

Tell her if she gets things straight by the next heat you'll try again. That is if you plan to breed her again.

thanks, you make a very good point. breeding is not for everyone. my vet and golf course buddies knew of her and i just trusted them and her. i love yorkies and i personally just wanted one of my mommas pups and then i was going to fix her. simple but complicated situation. one ill never do again. thanks

i would not give her a puppy after all the lies. I would also register the pups CKC. Sometimes they sell as well as AKC depending where you live. keep two, sell two.:) i would tell her that you feel you don't owe her a puppy since she lied to you and had you nown the truth, you would never have used her stud.

I usually would not get involved with this type of post, but I think you should take 1/2 the blame by not requiring a contract or a copy of the papers. CKC will register the pups with photos, so no worry there. Also, I must say the stud fee or choice of litter in lieu of a fee is for the producing of a mating. I agree with person that said give her a fair amount for an un-registered stud for the fee. It is ashame that this happened, but I am sure you are very happy with the babies that came of this. Congrats on a nice litter.

She did tell you that she was going to rehome the sire correct? That she had no time anymore for her dogs? Then considering all the facts, and the lies that have been told to you, I would not give her a puppy. She has not ime to care for one > That comment would tell me everything I would need to know. Has she asked you anymore about wanting a puppy ? If not , I'd wipe my hands clean of the deal, and stop further communication with her, after you lay down the line for her . Let her know excatly where you stand .

thanks for the insite. my heart tells me to keep my word but i'll have to think about it some more. i just don't take to those people who lie like this. i would have choosen another stud had i known. i truly believe she thought she would just drive over here, pick up a puppy and leave with no papers. after all, none of her dogs have been registered. i know i can register all the pups ckc at 6 months. i love all my darlings and may plan on keeping more than one.

i do take half the blame here. i should have known better. she lives six blocks from me, we take our dogs to the same vet. i'm kickin myself! i just worry she will give this pup up, or sell without papers, breed my pup with the stud (in breed) or worse. after all she keeps changing the story. i believe had i not called her again she would not have bothered to go online trying to then register him. last conversation she said she will have the sire and his parents registered. we will see. i appreciate all the comments and i as well do not like getting involved in these matters. insite is sometimes helpful when you've never done this before.

Did you say that she's getting rid of the sire because she is getting the puppy and can't afford to take care of 2? If I understood that correctly, then personally I would not give her a puppy. I can't believe she would get rid of her current dog so she can get a puppy. Is she going to do the same thing when this puppy gets older?

I assumed she wanted the puppy to sell.

If it were me, I would renegotiate with her for a stud fee, rather than a pup. I would research what an unregistered dog studs out for in my area (I have seen them here for $100-$200) and offer that to her instead of a pup. I am sorry you are in such a tangle. That sucks.

I agree with other posters. Give her a reasonable fee and keep the babies.
She doesn't even deserve her current dog! I can't believe she wants to get rid of the one she has for a puppy!

yes, she did say she was thinking about getting rid of the sire because she works and cant take care of two dogs. she also said she teaches special ed. at the school and that she would have to take the pup to school with her to take care of it. that it would be a good learning tool for her kids. WHAT!! do i want my pup to be there? i dont know how to mean and just call this OFF. i'd rather keep of of my furbabies now. confused.

Wow, I don't think that's a good idea either, it's so hard to teach children how to handle a puppy carefully, and Yorkie puppies are so small. If you do get her to accept a stud fee instead of the puppy, I hope you have her sign something, or if you give her a check you can write on it "paid in full", and she won't have any grounds to sue you.

i dont know how to get her to agree to a stud fee. she is still telling me she will have the registered papers on the stud in about a week but then she told me he was already registered in the beginning. we made no written agreement at all on this. shes just a neighbor and i messed up. we verbally said she would get a puppy and she told me she wanted a girl, i said ok. she has never even seen the pups and their over six wks now. she lives about 6 blocks from my house. im soooooooo scared to give her a puppy even is she does come up with the papers on the sire. i found out that she gives all her dogs away or sells. two years ago i met the parents of the sire, she gave them to family she said. what will she do with my pup i wonder? can she really sue me without any written agreement or proof of anything. still worried

I suppose it's possible she may try to sue in small claims court...there certainly are a lot of people out there doing it. The question of whether she would win or not is the real issue. As far as I can see, she violated the original "verbal" agreement when she didn't produce the papers she said she had. If it were me, I would tell her you've decided to keep the pup with the issue of the papers. I really doubt she'll take the time to sue if she doesn't even have time to take care of dogs, but if she does, let her. I agree with Nancy, write "paid in full" on a check. Good luck, and good for you for looking out for your puppies!!

I wouldn't give her one of my pups. I might pay her something. If you didn't sign a contract I wouldn't worry about it.

no contract made. just verbal agreement after she said she had all the papers on the sire. (which she did not) no stud fee either. just that she would get a pup. today is 7 wks and no word from her. i really am worried to even give a pup at this point because i fear she will just get rid of it that her own dogs in the past. i am so torn on this issue. man, ive learn a lesson here. i love all the pups so much but family members are awating two out of the four and here i am no papers sent off at all. she really put me in a fix. if i dont here from her this weekend i think i might call and offer a stud fee with unregistered pups! im thinking that may be fair but i dont know.

She is the one that did not follow through on what was agreed upon. If it were me, I would NOT feel comfortable entrusting her with one of my precious babies! I would give her a stud fee, even though she didn't uphold her end of the bargain....I don't know, I guess I would bad if I didn't give her something. I wouldn't give her a huge stud fee, though. Maybe see what the typical fee is in your area and whether or not those are AKC or CKC....I would imagine the CKC fee would be less, but that is only a guess....also, remind her that you are providing a stud fee even though her dogs are not even registered like she had promised.

But, no, she would not get one of my babies.

I'm not a member of the bar in MS, so this is NOT legal advice. Just my opinion, which is that there may be a contract because there was a promise and performance, although even that is questionable since she lied about the registration.

Even if there is a contract, it seems to be partial performance (No papers) so only partial payment is required. It seems like a check for the stud (which was performed) marked Paid in Full would meet your responsibility under the contract. Giving her the puppy would be payment for full performance on her part, which has not taken place.

Part payment for actual services provided would discharge your obligation, so you can feel ok about doing it. Her only argument would be inadequate time to perform (the papers), but that's a matter of opinion and you are not being unreasonable in your expectations.

If it were determined that there was no contract because she lied about a crucial term, you would owe her nothing. But I see no reason why you shouldn't pay her the minimum for an unregistered stud, if that helps you to put this behind you. Do what you feel is best for you and the pup. You'll get lots of support here!

I hope this helps you lay this matter to rest.

Repeat: This is NOT to be construed as legal advice.

Can you tell I'm trained as a lawyer? :yelrotflm

Good luck from me and Samantha,
Vivian

Oh, do keep the pup. ;)

Excellent advice. And put it all in writing with dates and keep a copy.

Hugs,
Vivian and Samantha (well, kisses from Miss S, actually)

:thumbup::thumbup: I agree totally! If you look at this legally she should get some compensation for the fact that you have the puppies at all. I would not give her a puppy though!!! A stud fee is more then enough. She's lucky your an honest person and wants to do what is right. There are so many people in this world that wouldn't give her anything. IMO a payment is the right way for you to go.

She sounds like the type of person who wants a puppy and then once it's grown, she no longer wants the adult dog. So sad!!! This is why there are so many adult dogs in need of a loving new home. Please, don't give her one of your puppies. And don't worry that your puppies are not registered. If you are giving them to family members they should be happy to have the beauties and not worry about a useless piece of paper. Which is really what it is if your not showing the dogs. If they are wanting to breed them, then I could see the need for the papers. But how sad to think they are getting a baby only to want it to make babies in the future. They are lucky to be getting a puppy. Just read some of the threads on here about how hard it is to find a yorkie puppy. You sound like you truly love these babies and don't want them becoming breeding machines so I don't think you should worry so much about the paper thing. The important thing is finding safe and loving forever homes for your babies.

Lastly, I can't believe that your stud's mother would be allowed to take a puppy into a classroom of special needs children. I agree that would be way too dangerous to the puppy!!! To me the children in that class room should be her focus, that is what the city / county pays her for. And don't worry that she's your neighbor. She lives so far from you I wouldn't consider her a neighbor. Give her a check and be done with her. If you don't want to talk with her about it, then write her a letter explaining this and send the check with it. You can ever keep a copy of the letter and check and send the originals to her in certified mail so you get the proof back that she has gotten it. Then keep the copies along w/the certified mail return receipt just incase she tries to sue. Please, keep us posted on how it goes and if we can offer any more advise we're here for you. ((((Hugs))))

Okay, IMO...yes there was a "verbal contract" stud service with CKC Registered dog...SHE broke the contract by not having a registered dog...I think you owe her nothing...

thanks for the support
 

i am soooo impressed by the thoughtfulness replies here and appreciate it. im a simple person and love animals. im NOT worried about a law suit. i have been in law for years and know plenty of ropes. however, morally the right thing really plays on my mind. hopeful you all read this and know how grateful i am. i will give her this weekend only to contact me. i will let you all know. the stud fees in this area are very low (unregistered dogs) having said that i worry more about what shes going to do with this pup in months to come or a year or so. my husband, being honest and all red neck great guy he is, says " honey dont worry" just call her and get her address and send some money for stud service and tell her forget you ever met me lady. hes funny but i love him. keep advice coming!!! you all are soooooooooooooo helpful in making my mind up. :animal-pa

I am not saying that she wont sue you because anyone can sue anyone for anything BUT if she tries she wont have much of a case because she verbally told you that her stud had papers and so by lying she voided her own agreement. And you did offer to pay her for the stud service so you are upholding your end of the agreement even though she didnt hold her