Originally Posted by Krystee (Post 2742065)

I hope it's okay if I ask this question but it's something that I have been wondering about since I joined YT and started learning about Biewers. I don't really have an opinion on them (except that they are cute :)) I'm just interested.
I have been following this thread... do some believe that is a different breed because they truly think the Biewer was really the result of the Shih tzu (or was it the Lhsao) and Yorkie and not 2 Yorkies.. like someone mentioned in another post.

Also, if they were the result of 2 Yorkies, wouldn't there have to be inbreeding to keep the "breed" going. Doesn't that create a higher chance of genetic defects? Has this ever happened again with a different breeder and 2 Yorkies?

Again, I'm only asking because I'm curious and want to know more about them. :)

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 2737872)

Being a member of the BTCA and dealing with a new bred, this test is so worth it to me and all my breeders. I do not need to tell any potential customer that I had my dogs tested and their new Biewer puppy is coming from clean Biewers. This is for my knowledge as a breeder. It gives me somewhat peace of mind. I guess some breeders find that hard to understand. What you are seeing BTCA members doing is working with modern science to help head off any potential disease that may or may not be there. No good breeder wants to intentionally hurt a customer by selling them a new breed that has potential health problems. I have read over and over again of heart broken families that put out thousands of dollars to save something they love dearly. We as a club are just trying to do the best that modern science is allowing us to do. And, fortunately enough, we were able to find just the right lab that will do it for us.

I am sorry this may seem confusing to others but it just shows how serious the members of the BTCA are in producing healthy Biewer Terriers. I was not surprised to see this post as we are constantly being attacked all the time. I just wish we could be left alone and do what we do best, by continuing to produce healthy stock for loving pet homes.

Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2742224)

You already know what it is. You told Dog Fancy magazine that it is a Biewer Terrier.

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2742245)

And I'll try to explain. :)

In 1984 the Mr Biewer bred their two standard yorkies and had a litter which had white...the result of a pie bald gene. What it meant was his two yorkies carried this gene and when paired together....both offered a recessive gene that resulted in the puppies coloring. How his original dogs got the gene is a mystery...that is where the question of another breed comes in. The answer is unknown and DNA parentage testing wasn't available. To answer your inbreeding question...yes it would've been necessary.

The genetic diseases which affect yorkshire terriers is the same for biewers.

And lastly ....parti yorkshire terriers have been born to a pair of standard colored yorkies.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...r-morning.html

Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2742212)

It doesn't clear up anything, if you want to know what the BTCA believes and is doing, contact a board member and ask them. Don't rely on nescient statements made my people that have never talked to nor been a member of the club.

Originally Posted by kalina82 (Post 2742573)

Actually I've emailed you and received no response.

Originally Posted by Krystee (Post 2742427)

Thank you for answering my questions :) Whichever breed they are or aren't they are beautiful dogs!

Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2742212)

It doesn't clear up anything, if you want to know what the BTCA believes and is doing, contact a board member and ask them. Don't rely on nescient statements made my people that have never talked to nor been a member of the club.

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer (Post 2741103)

Well.. In my opinion.. if you have a Biewer, you have a GOOD Biewer. They are a wonderful little dog and you should be very happy with yours.

This is such a simple thing but some want to make is sooo complicated.. Why I wonder???

The Biewer came from Two Yorkies.. The Biewer is a tri-colored Yorkie. ALL three of the active Biewer clubs in this country have the same foundation stock.. they all came from Germany, many from the same lines, many from the same litters.

When we bought these dogs, they were a tri-colored yorkie, a VARIANT of a yorkshire terrier. In Germany, Tri colored yorkies are registered as a Biewer.. if in the same litter, there are traditional colored Yorkie puppies (say if one parent was a yorkie, one a Biewer) those puppies are registered as Yorkies. So simple, much like you have a black cocker or a parti cocker or a ASCOB.

Somehow, when they crossed the waves, to some they became a different breed and it's only happened in the last few years.. presto!

Why?? Because to gain AKC acceptance, the Biewer can not come in as a variant of a yorkie.. the YTCA won't allow it! Sooo.. What to do :confused: OOOH... make it a mix of 2 or three other dogs, call it something different, say it's something differnet ... then sneak in :rolleyes:

The problem is that some of the people who have the SAME lines are saying.. wait a minute.. WE don't have mutts.. we have a purebred dog and so do YOU!

The dogs are the same dog.. they are NO different. If they are GOING to be a differnet breed, it has to be something that is being done to them now and moving forward.. nothing that was done previously. Some will say they are breeding only Biewer to Biewer so that makes them a different breed.. not sure if that flys or not.

-Diana :animal-pa

Originally Posted by IRMaxine (Post 2740134)

HELLO!! EXCUSE ME!!!
THIS THREAD IS TO DISCUSS AND GET SOME TRUTHS CONCERNING THE TESTING OF THE BIEWER BREED --IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THE STANDARD TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD PLEASE- MY QUESTIONS STILL STAND AS THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED AS YET-----

Please share with us the name of the laboratory that are doing these mutation tests for you-
What mutations have been identified for the Biewer breed?
Which specific diseases are you testing the Biewers for?
If the toy breed mutations are the same for the Biewer Terrier, wouldn't the mutations be the same for the Biewer ala Pom Pon, Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, Biewer Yorkie, Biewer and the Yorkshire Terrier?

Originally Posted by IRMaxine (Post 2748318)

Hello Gail!! Yes, I definitely believe in testing. However I do not do tests that are not validated for the Biewer breed. I do not make statements that my dogs have been tested clear and free of diseases or as carriers with tests that are not valid for this breed- When the marker or mutation is not found on the Biewer dna it does not mean they are free and clear of the disease- I can not find a laboratory that have not done enough testing on the Biewer breed to identify the markers/mutations.
Please share with us the name of the laboratory you are using that have made all of these break-thrus?
What specific diseases are they testing the Biewers for?
What mutations have been identified for the Biewer breed?

Originally Posted by IRMaxine (Post 2748318)

Hello Gail!! Yes, I definitely believe in testing. However I do not do tests that are not validated for the Biewer breed. I do not make statements that my dogs have been tested clear and free of diseases or as carriers with tests that are not valid for this breed- When the marker or mutation is not found on the Biewer dna it does not mean they are free and clear of the disease- I can not find a laboratory that have not done enough testing on the Biewer breed to identify the markers/mutations.
Please share with us the name of the laboratory you are using that have made all of these break-thrus?
What specific diseases are they testing the Biewers for?
What mutations have been identified for the Biewer breed?

Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2748347)

That's good. I was curious what testing you were doing. I am planning on coming up to your specialty to talk with the board members. I received an email from Theresa that cleared up a lot of misunderstandings. Since your club does believe that the Biewer is a breed of its own because of the introduction of 2 or more breeds it will be nice for us to work together.

I didn't say that our dogs were disease free, go back and read what I said about our testing. See you at the show.
Gayle

Originally Posted by IRMaxine (Post 2738942)

We all as responsible Biewer owners/breeders/buyers want to protect our dogs from these potential health problems. And to think that the BTCA working with modern science has discovered these tests for mutations of diseases. Please share with us the name of the laboratory that are doing these mutation tests for you-
What mutations have been identified for the Biewer breed?
Which specific diseases are you testing the Biewers for?
If the toy breed mutations are the same for the Biewer Terrier, wouldn't the mutations be the same for the Biewer ala Pom Pon, Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, Biewer Yorkie, Biewer and the Yorkshire Terrier?

Originally Posted by bailey12 (Post 2749192)

IRMaxine, go to the BTRA website and read the info provided. It clearly states the mutations and the corresponding diseases/illnesses. Again, is it a "perfect test", testing for all illnesses and their possible mutations? Again, of course not. It is another tool we have to get a more complete picture of our dogs. I believe people are trying to answer your questions. You do not have to test your dogs, that is your choice. If it isn't right for you, feel free to do something else juliet

Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2749073)

Nancy, I wouldn't mind sharing any information with your club if I thought you were really interested in bettering the breed, but after finding out what your board members did this week end, it just showed me that nothing has changed.

First you say you won't show with the IABCA and then your officers are down there trying to get Jeff to accept a Gold Dust Biewer Yorkshire Terrier.:thumbdown
:mad:PLEASE.........

You guys still think the Biewer is a purebred Yorkshire Terrier with a 3 colored standard and now you are trying to promote a Gold Dust Biewer. Please stop bothering us!!

When are you going to learn that a color fault does not make a new breed?

Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2749794)

The clubs don't get along because of this behavior. The BTCA is about developing a strong healthy foundation for the Biewer in America, educating the public with facts, not opinions.

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi (Post 2750572)

Strong healthy foundation for the Biewer?
With all the online screaming and stomping about " Biewer Terriers"
and educating the public!
Are you educating you have Biewers? or " Biewer Terriers?
I'm really rather surprised with this statement from ,or maybe not.:rolleyes:
I find this statement very confusing and I've been involved with the breed for a very long time.I feel badly for those who are trying to research the breed.

I am also not sure which clubs you would be refering to regarding deaths of puppies, however I find it is just another squirt of fuel that you like to add to the already burning fire.
In my personal opinion ,these types of statements are perhaps what keeps the clubs divided.
And once again a thread has been turned into another public attack against a club or other clubs that had nothing to do with the original post.

Originally Posted by IRMaxine (Post 2749814)

As yet you have not answered one question concerning the health testing of the Biewer breed nor any health issues you have encountered- What other clubs have had so many puppy deaths?

Originally Posted by donna1134 (Post 2750852)

Maxine, I was one of the persons that was in the internet talk with the YT chat.. I very seldom post but wanted to answer some questions and to ask some.. I think that Nancy has a valid point to ask what tests are being done and what lab is being used. When the same question was asked during that chat, I answered that we did not know of any other than the original ones that was being done.. Now, I have a question.. Forget the politics and think of the dog.. What club would find something new that would benifit our dogs and not tell the world? If we found a lab, or a new test that would help our breedings, be it yorkie, biewer or biewer terrier, it would make sense for all of us to know. I can't understand how one question could make this long a thread and never have that one question answered.. before we can register our litters, we have a puppy wellness form that must be filled out by a vet. It includes a bile acid or liver enzime test.. that blood work must be done before puppies are registered and we do it on all of our breeding stock. They also must be dna'd. So, to answer that one part, yes, Nancy does test. but in all fairness, please let us know what other tests we can be doing. So our clubs do not get along.. so what..... isn't it about the dogs? We test eyes, LP, general wellness, the form proves that all shots are up to date.. the blood work and all the usual tests that are done with the sample and the dna. please tell us what other tests that we can do.