The Real difference between a show dog and a pet
 

There is a thread from somebody who really doesn't know the difference and trying to defend their breeding for tinies. Rather than respond to that one, I wanted to write my own based on my own experience as a show breeder.
Any breeding I do, I am trying to hopefully produce my next show dog. It doesn't always work out that way so puppies in a litter that in my opinion and in the opinion of my mentors, that do not look like they are something I would want for the show rings, I sell for pet. I do not ship, and rigorous interviews happen before a sale.
These are healthy happy little dogs, very good quality Yorkies. Some can be undersized, what bad sellers sell as 'teacups', or might be larger, oversized and can be sold for pet, as a larger yorkie. All are non breeding contracts or already spayed or neutered if I decide after they are 6 months old not to keep it in my breeding program. Yes, I have had small ones that were relatively normal size at birth but will be less than 5 lbs full size. They are not runts, they are small. As I do know that very often small ones can have health issues, I do not consider a pet home for a tiny one until it is close to a year old, health testing that can be done is done and spay/neuter is done.
I don't sell it but keep it myself if there is any question about its health.
I do not sell it for high prices if eventually I do look for a pet home for it. And the interviewing etc, I do is rigorous as someone buying a pet has to understand the care and time and possible expense of having a small one. Dogs are not accessories. The worst possible thing you can do is think you can carry them around in a bag and show them off like a new bracelet. They are way too delicate.
The Yorkshire Terrier Club of America has this information on their site about teacups. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)
THE REAL WORLD OF SHOWING DOGS
I now have finished about 10 champions in Canada. I show my own dogs I do not have a handler. I am fortunate that many shows are within driving distance and I am likely away from home less hours for a show than many of you are gone when you are in a mall doing shopping etc.
It is not true that show breeders are gone all weekend going from showto show to show. Professional handlers are but not breeder/owner/handler show breeders. We pick and choose what shows we will go to and also what ones we can afford.
If we do have a weekend we are away, we choose carefully who will be dog sitting for us. Indeed, many show breeders have family and friends who take on this job.
We support ourselves by working our own jobs, not off the backs of our dogs. We again have the type of jobs that we can work from home, have spouses that earn a lot of the income while some of us have part time jobs, some own businesses, some can take time away from jobs when necessary, some have jobs with bosses that have no problem with them taking a dog to work with them if necessary, all of which lets us pursue our hobby without living off our dogs. If I had to live off my dogs, I would not breed anymore.
A reputable breeder would never purposely breed for tiny. I do not ever entertain the idea of using a bitch or stud for that matter for breeding less than 5 lbs. At least one is a champion, and about 75% or more of the pedigree are champions, including my own dogs in that pedigree.
If you want to buy a show dog, go to a show breeder not someone who claims to have champions in their pedigree. Go to a seasoned show breeder meaning someone who has finished several champions OF THEIR OWN BREEDING, not just bought off of a show breeder who they either were not truthful with about what they wanted to do or the show breeder didn't care who they sold to and there are some around unfortunately, which has put some very nice kennel names in the wrong hands as those very nice kennels names got scammed by someone not honouring a contract and should not have been trusted.
Any litter I produce, might have a show dog, possibly two. Other puppies in that litter, might be a pet quality. All puppies in that litter has the same pedigree but notice some are show quality or might be, some are not.
I cannot fathom any excuse for purposely breeding for tinies or breeding a purebred without the breed standard in mind for any mating. Indeed with any mating I do, what I hope for, is not what I always get. Breeding different sizes to produce a size you think you will get never works. From what I have been told, inbreeding tends to produce tiny more often than not although again, not always and you run the risk of bad genes doubling up to produce a problem.
There are too many factors in genetics involved to be absolutely certain what you will get as a result of any mating.
The best justice you can do to the Yorkie or any purebreed breed you are interested in is to work with longtime show breeders to mentor you, breed to the breed standard including size and colour, rather than breeding a commodity to sell to a pet market.

Very good thread and informative. Thank you.

I should add, that some I do sell for pet are within 5 to 7 lbs but for other reasons I don't want to keep them. could be they might be going too light, may not be as square as I would like, or I just don't want to keep another male. I will not sell show or breeding dogs so they are sold for pet only.

Thank you Lorraine for the reality lesson in pet and show quality breeding. Also, thank you for sticking around here and trying to educate...I know it's got to be frustrating at times :)

:thumbup:Most lay or pet people don't know the differance between show and pet, or that most of us that show, breed for ourselves and our breeding is done on a minimum basis.

Very frustrating but hey if I can help or guide just one person and provide useful information to protect my breed, I guess it is worth it. :)

I know and that is where the stories about show breeders that aren't quite true, come up.

Thank you so much for your post. The lack of understanding between show and pet quality can be very frustrating at times. People just don't understand that a pet quality Yorkie from a reputable breeder will still be very close to the Yorkie standard. There seems to be a myth here that what your puppy will look like as an adult is entirely unpredictable, especially when it comes to size.

Most believe that we are breeding continousely just to sell pups and get upset and impatient and don't understand that most of us have a waiting list for our pups that we don't keep. Instant gratification, wanting a pup right now, hence the reason why they turn to buying pups from the internet, the newspaper, and buying their puppy from someone that is not reputable.

When you are buying a puppy regardless of pet or show, you do want to see what the breeder has over the years in their adults. That is more likely what you will get. Also, an experienced breeder will have a better idea of what a puppy will likely look like.
However, you must realize there are surprises and the younger you sell a puppy or a buyer buys one, the less idea the breeder will have to size and appearance of a puppy as an adult.
I don't like to sell a puppy less than 4 months old partly because I want to see for myself what they might turn out like, temperment will be like, also for the reason that if I am selling for pet, I match a puppy with a prospective home and what kind of home it would be best suited for.
Size is not that predictable so people who have bought thinking they are getting a 'teacup' because it was so small at 10 weeks or whatever, got quite a surprise when it did get to be 7 lbs, certainly much larger than they thought.
Long time breeders know this, I do not guarantee size other than if I am selling one at say 7 months and it is 5 lbs, you are not getting a 4 lbs yorkie.
I have run on puppies that I was hoping will make size and didn't by the time they were a year, some I sold thinking they are going to be no more than 4 or 4 1/2 lbs and they are 6 lbs. They matured late which can happen.
Doubling the 12 weeks weight is ball park only and that ball gets hit out of the park more often than you think.

lorraine, thanks for posting this. I was almost afraid to open it. Thought it might be same o same o from the other person. I failed to see your name as the author until I opened it.:)

Thanks for a very informative and well-written post.

Soooo.......You breed to show?

Great post very informative! I think many people don't understand you can go to a show breeder to get a great pet!

I'm new here, but, have been lurking for awhile. I just wanted to thank you for posting this. I did read the other post, which was mostly just rambling.:) It's good to have informative information

If one goes to the AKC website and I'm sure it's stated in CKC also. We show to gain approval of our breeding dogs.

We breed to improve the breed, in the quest for that perfect dog.

I didn't mean weight was predictable between 4-6 pounds. My comment was directed at the people who believe that winding up with a fifteen pounder is the risk you take with any breeder. Getting a puppy from a reputable show breeder generally means he will be within the under seven pounds standard, doesn't it? Or am I mistaken?

I am much more knowledgeable about Maltese who have the same weight standard. While show breeders will occasionally have an eight or nine pound adult, adults weighing in the teens usually are poorly bred and have Bichon in their background.

Thanks for your help in trying to understand this!

Hopefully. Doesn't always work out for any breeding i do, so if I don't get a show prospect or show dog, I will look for a good pet home, spay/neuter only.
If I don't get a good pet home immediately, it stays here with me until I do.
Most people looking for pets are referrals from other people that have a dog from me, friend of a friend, Vet referrals, some find me via my website.
The other issue with a reputable show breeder is we interview and will not sell if we think you are not the right home or owner for our pup we might have for pet.
At the moment, I won't be breeding at all anymore this year. I have a few show dogs I am working with right now for the rings. Don't know if I will next year, I'll see where I am at at the time.

In yorkies, oversize ie more than 7 lbs does happen but I don't keep them in my breeding program. 8 or 9 lbs is not unusual.

Long time show people have a very good understanding of their line, however, a throw back can occur either being on the small or large size. So, it can happen.

They can and you will not be paying $2000 or more for a pet.

i bought a nice show prospect from a good breeder. His pedigree was almost entirely red with champions. The show pictures were glorious to look at. i thought I was so fortunate to have acquired him. I looked at all his relatives in his back ground. The show website was awesome. i research all the dogs and found ONE line
in there that had produced some dogs to big to be shown. Wouldn't you know it? he took after them. I was so disappointed but he was the sweetest guy ever and even tho he was too big and gangly, he eventually turned a beautiful color. i did try to show him but at his classes, he was too timid to even walk and would even hide when I got the show lead out. So here I am thinking, so much for all my research and etc. But there is such a thing as throwbacks in a dogs lineage and he was sure one of those. So, my personal experience was that knowing the lines and parents didn't mean anything as far as how my dog turned out.

We're very lucky when we find a wonderful stud with all the attributes that we desire that will reproduce itself. And sometimes that one specific breeding of two dogs didn't shake up the way we had hoped.

I have one guy in my program that reproduces his father each and everytime. Which is a good thing since his dad was gorgeous and a showing fool. My guy inherited that quality too, but much smaller than his dad.

I understand that people can go to a show breeder for a good pet but arent they generally more expensive because of their background?

That is right. my 'little" guy was bred twice before I let him go and produced some nice pups. (some not so nice too). I have regretted letting him go in spite of everything but I boxed myself into a corner with him. he is in a pet home now.

On the contrary, you'll find the opposite to be true. We aren't breeding to sell puppies, so we aren't mass producing, we are breeding for ourselves and what is most important to us is breeding a better dog. Our main concern is to find the best possible homes for our pups.

My contracts provide free grooming and boarding for the life of the pup, so if you look at it from that prospective, my families are getting their money back. But, it's a good way to be able to see my pups and see how they are.

What age did you get him at Dee?

Thank you this was interesting and since I am new to YT I found this very useful information....
Can I ask a weird question?? Since Yorkies change sooo much have you ever sold a puppy thinking it was going to be to small or too big to later see the dog and wish you had kept it for showing because it ended up sooo beautiful and perfect size???? I am only asking this because I have read time and time again that sometimes size and color is unpredictable?????

Nope, since attitude is what is I begin looking for first. If they don't have the attitude, they aren't worth keeping for show, I don't care how beautiful or great of a conformation they have. However, I do keep mine a bit longer, so I can evaluate them better.

Thank you, I just thought it was an interesting question and wondered if it had ever happened but I suppose that since you breed and are probally well aware of what to look for you probally just have an instinct for it , Thank you again