Should I be concerned?
 

Hello! So i've wanted a Yorkshire Terrier all of my life and am finally getting one!!! Now i just have a few concerns. A co-worker of mine told me to be very careful with the puppy that i purchase and to make sure he is not from a puppy mill. I've actually met the puppy in person. He has one sister and both the sire and dam are on site. They are in the care of a retired woman. It seemed fine when i went to go see the puppy although it was a little freaky because she lives in a secluded area with no other houses around.
Anyways, the puppy was originally listed for $600 and after i talked to her, she was willing to bring the price down to $400. (Just to clarify, i am able to easily afford the puppy at full price but i am also a student and every little bit helps. Also, yes, i am fully aware of all the costs a puppy brings along - vet costs, shots, food, puppy accessories such as toys, crate, etc. and am fully able to comfortably afford the costs). So my co-worker said to me that if the woman brought the price down, she must own a puppy mill and that breeders or any responsible pet owners never bring the price of a puppy down. :S
The puppy recieved his first vaccination and got de-wormed. He will be coming with one bag of the food he is currently on which is Nutrience Junior puppy food (good/bad?). When i was viewing ad's before i came across the one for my puppy, i noticed that most people were offering written health guarantees of either one or two years for their puppies. The guarantees were for either genetic or congenital (sp?) diseases. Is it bad if the woman i am purchasing my puppy from isn't offering a guarantee? In the last e-mail she sent me, she informed me that smaller breeds of dogs can become hypoglycemic if they don't eat enough and if it happens and the puppy goes into a coma (!!!!!:eek:!!!!!) that i should put corn syrup and water in a eye dropper and feed if to him. She said that they usually ourgrow this problem at about 3 months of age. When i first read this, i just thought she was trying to keep me as informed as possible about everything. Although i thought this, when my friend read it, she told me to be careful and said that she may just be throwing it out there because she's had this problem with previous litters or with the parents and that she was just safeguarding herself. (Opinions)
Also, there is just one more thing i was concerned about. Should it matter if the parents of the puppy are not registered and therefore she does not have a pedigree?
Sorry for all of the questions! I know this is super long but i just wanted to make an informed decision and not do something i will regret later on. I really, REALLY want this puppy but i don't want that to bias my views on anything and i don't want to overlook problems that can occur in the future just because i've always wanted this breed of dog.
Please help me out! Thank you! :)

they dont have to be registred but i would demand a health guarantee! i got my baby and the very first day she was diagnosed with kennel cough but i had my health guarantee,maybe shes just nice for lowering the price considering your a student,but did she use terms such as he is in sale or she was running a special?thats a red flag,also watch for terms such as teacup becasue there is no such thing.i would make sure i had a health guarantee esp since the price is lower...something could be wrong...

Well she didn't use any terms such as he's on sale or anything. After we talked for a bit, she told me that she could relate to wanting something so badly but not having the funds to afford it. She said if she could ensure that he would go to a good home, she would be willing to give him to me for $400. After a few more e-mails, she said that she could tell that i would provide a caring and safe environment for the puppy and that he was mine if i wanted. She told me that he would probably mature to be around 6lbs so he is definitely not a "teacup" (i know they don't exist, but just using the term people use!)
Thanks for your input though! Do you know how i would go about getting a health guarantee? Like, is it just something i write out on my own and we both sign or is there a specific form...? Sorry! I'm not too familiar with all of this as he would be my first puppy!

It kind of just depends on what you're looking for in a breeder. A good breeder breeds only registered, to standard dogs. The most reputable (and in my eyes, the only important one) registry is AKC. Also, any breeder worth buying from would offer a health guarantee. 3 weeks after I got Franklin (from a bad breeder), he get sick with parvo and had to spend a week in the hospital. We didn't have a health guarantee and so we were stuck with the $1600 bill.

The breeder warning you about hypoglycemia is completely normal and lowering the price is also not necessarily a bad sign.

Do some research on breeders here at YT.. read the stickies at the top of every forum and they should point you in the right direction. I must warn you though, most reputable breeders do extensive testing on the parents to ensure a healthy pup. They also put lots of money into the care of the mother/puppies. This means that the puppies you find may cost a little more than $600. The average, I would say, is around $1000. Just because a breeder charges a lot, however, does not mean they are a good breeder. It's tough! Just ask us any questions you have and we will help you out as best we can. Good luck! :animal-pa

Hm..i don't know if my other post came up or not because i posted it about two hours ago and it's still not here.


Anyways, i was basically just wondering how i'd go about getting the health guarantee? Like is it just a paper that is signed by the both of us or is there a specific form i have to print out...? Sorry, this is my first puppy so i haven't encountered anything like this! Thanks again :)

Just one more thing. The woman said that she's got the puppy eating Nutrience Junior puppy food. Is this supposed to be a healthy brand for puppy food? She said she would also give me a bag when i take him home. If you guys could let me know your experiences with it and whether it is a high quality food, i'd really appreciate it. I want to make an informed decision and i need all of your help for that! Thanks a lot!

Here is a review of Nutrience Junior Puppy...

Dog Food Reviews - Nutrience Junior Puppy small breed - Powered by ReviewPost

That site has alot of useful information on dogfood. :)

I agree.

That wouldn't be my first food choice.

I think the breeder probably cares for her dogs very much since she is more concerned about a good home than money, but she probably isn't doing health testing and if the pups aren't registered, she may not be breeding to the standard. I suppose it depends on if you want to take the risk of something going wrong and all the bills being on you.

A health guarantee isn't something the buyer does.
The breeder writes it up.

"All" breeders of toy breeds should warn new owners of the possibility of hypoglycemia. This along with socialization with litter mates and mother issues is why Yorkies should stay with their mom til 12 weeks.

Personally, unless I was rescueing a Yorkie, I would most likely not get one if the parents haven't had blood panels, bile acids testing for liver function and at least a physical exam for luxating patella.

If the parents haven't been cleared of liver shunt and MVD (through a bile acids test) and the lines aren't clear for the last ten generations, the pup is more likely to have an issue with it. Diagnosis could be anywhere from about $150 to over $1000 and if surgery is required, that is over $1000 at the cheapest place. Then supplements for life if that is necessary will be anywhere from $50 to over $400 a year.

your other post did come up,she seems like a nice lady that cares about her dogs and she seems very honest about important things like hypoglycemia, but i would be concerned about the health aspect,ask her if she would be willing to work some kind of health contract out for you and see what she says

:thumbup:

"Bargain" puppies can cost much, much more over their lifetime than a puppy from a reputable breeder who breeds to the standard and health tests. I would definitely advise you to wait and save up a little more money instead of getting a puppy from this breeder.

Did you know that Yorkies are 36 times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined? And that the Orthopedic Foundation of America ranks Yorkie's #4 in cases of luxating patellas? Surgery for both these conditions runs into the thousands of dollars. If your breeder doesn't screen for these and other genetic conditions, you are playing Russian Roulette with your puppy's future health.

Also, if a breeder isn't carefully breeding to the standard, you may end up with an adult dog that doesn't look much like a Yorkie is supposed to.

She was being very honest when advising you regarding hypoglaucemia. Being smaller dogs, Yorkies are very prone to it, particularly when they are younger and adjusting to a new environment.

However, a health guarantee is a MUST. I would not even consider a dog that didn't come with one that was iron clad.

If you are getting a pup from a breeder I think that should require a health guarantee. The only exception I see is if you're adopting.

Health guarantees usually just promise you a replacement if your puppy gets sick or has a genetic condition. It would be heartbreaking to have to return one puppy for another. Besides, if the problem were hereditary like a liver shunt, you wouldn't want to take a chance on a puppy from the same breeder.

It's much wiser to get a puppy from a breeder who health tests and does genetic screening so you have an excellent chance of getting a healthy puppy to begin with.

Agreed...I guess I should have specified more regarding what a guarantee should include. :)

I am not very educated on Yorkies, I have only had mine since the 1st of November, mine has a pedigree, and now that I have one with a pedigree I really dont see why I would need one, I am not going to show her or breed her or anything, I just want to love her!!!!:) She is healthy as can be too. She does have LP a little bit, which I told my breeder and she checked her sister and thinks she may have it as well and is going to take her in to get her checked out. She was very upset to learn this from me.

So I guess my point is that it depends on your plans with your puppy!

I got my other two animals from the pound when they were a few months old (6 year old Border Collie/Lab and 7 Year old cat) they both came from bad homes with way to many animals not being taken care of and we have had no health problems etc.... so this lady might just love the puppies and want to let others be able to afford them, who knows. I actually thought that might have been a possibility for me and my little girl but as I thought about it more I couldn't handle my puppy possibly not making it through birth and loosing a little new born puppy, NO WAY! I would cry for days! So I leave it up to the others who can handle that kind of stuff.

So if you love the dog and he is being cared for in a good home and she is concerned about him going to a good place I would say it should be ok. Maybe ask her to put some kind of health cert. in writing so that you can have her help if something major comes up. Personally, I think you can't guarantee on any animal if its going to be ok, its like getting a husband or having your kids and saying wait this one has asthma can I put her back! :lol tears

This is just my 2 cents, may not mean much and thats ok, but you asked for opinions!

Best luck with your new pup wherever he/she may come from!

All purebred dogs have a pedigree. It's the canine equivalent of a family tree. A well bred dog has lots of champions (usually in red) in its pedigree. You want to see the champions in close relatives, parents, grandparents, not generations back.

A dog with a good pedigree tells you that the breeder has had her breeding dogs evaluated by judges in the ring. Why is that important? Because it means you will get a puppy who will grow up to look and act close to what the standard calls for. The proper structure is not just about looks. Knock knees or feet that turn out put stress on the joints and can cause problems later on. A good pedigree means that a breeder knows her lines and screens for genetic conditions and probably health tests to insure that she only produce healthy puppies.

If it's very slight it could tighten up as they get older. She might wind up being just fine. :)

I hope so! If not oh well, I got her knowing that I may have to have things done for her or my other pets and I have the means if the time comes. I wouldn't trade her for anything. Its just like having doctors bills for myself and my kids and you just save for emergency times.

Thanks for the info! Mine has no champions in her family tree.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Great post, I read so often people saying since they aren't going to breed or show so they don't need to buy a dog with a pedigree and/or papers. I think it's so important to support those breeders who are trying their best to improve the breed.

Hey everyone! Thanks so much for all of your help. :) so I ended up asking her for a health guarantee but the said "I'm afraid I'd have to charge a lot more if I provided a health guarantee. The parents have had 3 previous litters and none of them had any problems". Is it okay if the parents have had 3 previous litters or is that considered too much? She went on to say that the puppy can go into a coma if he plays too much and she'd give me an information sheet before I leave. Does all that sound alright? Should I take my chances without a health guarantee? I'm just scared of something happening and being stuck with a huge bill in the end like the poster who had to pay $1600. And why is it that they can go into a coma with too much playtime?

She's referring to hypoglycemia where the blood sugar drops dangerously low. It can be triggered by exercise and yes, puppies can go into a coma and die if not treated quickly. It's usually just a problem in the first few months, not a lifelong problem.

Hypoglycemia, although scary and something to watch for, is not the purpose of a health guarantee. You want a breeder who will stand behind her puppies should one have a genetic disorder like a liver shunt, Legg-Perthes, etc.

I would certainly not take my chances on a puppy with no health guarantee. I'm sure this breeder isn't doing any health testing or screening so the genetic makeup of these puppies is probably unknown. Read through the posts in our Sick and Injured and Health sections and you will see all the genetic problems Yorkies are prone to, especially liver shunts and luxating patellas.

My best advice is save a little bit more and get a well bred puppy from a reputable breeder. If not, you run the risk of huge vet bills and heartbreak later on. My Lady is a rescue and poorly bred and her medications and routine bloodwork to monitor all her health issues run $5,000 a year. That doesn't include unplanned vet visits when she is sick. We usually have at least one a year (this year we have had two) and they run between $500-700.

This woman sounds more like a hobby breeder than a puppymill. She probably has a couple liters a year of pups and knows enough about breeding. I'd ask for a health guarantee. The fact that the pup has no papers means little if you are just looking for a pet to love. I wouldn't breed your baby.

How many dogs were at her house? Did you go to her house? Was it clean? $400-$600 is a good price for a pup with no papers, putting the dog on 'sale' is a red flag for me, but she might have her reasons. I tend to be a bit naive though and trust others right off the bat. If you get a health guarantee, saw the parents and are happy with the pup and feel it is a good fit, then go for it.

(don't bash me for saying this)

:thumbup:

It comes down to, do you want to take the chance without a guarantee?
Rescuing or adopting is different in that you are taking on their problems willingly if they have any and doing what the old owner couldn't or did not want to do (in some cases). This is a breeder and most good breeders offer health guarantees and do pre breed testing.

As Ladymom said, hypoglycemia is not what a guarantee is for in most cases unless maybe it becomes a huge problem. Dogs can get it faster if they exercise because their energy and sugar is being depleted, however, that is no reason not to let them play. If they are fed often and don't come to the new owner before twelve weeks, it shouldn't be a big issue.

I would like to add one more thing about registration. The reason many purebreds aren't registered is one -- they are not purebreds, or two -- the breeders own dogs were purchased without breeding rights. Buying a quality dog with breeding rights is usually more expensive, and many people just get around this by going ahead and breeding anyway and not registering the puppies at all, or registering with one of the alternative registries, who don't care if you didn't have breeding rights. To me, this is the same as stealing. When you buy a puppy from a breeder like this, you are aiding her in this fraud. Some people would never dream of stealing something from your house, but have no problem buying suspected stolen goods, and to me this is the same thing. Papers do mean something, they just don't mean that the dog you have is any better than another.

That's the thing. She said that if she were to offer a health guarantee, the price for the puppies would be a lot more. She just left it at that. Originally the puppy was $600 and even at that price, she wasn't giving a health guarantee. She just said that she had no problems with the previous litters or the sire and dam so maybe that would put my mind to ease.
I did go to her house but we only stayed in the front enterance. The dogs that we saw were the sire and dam and the puppy i am interested in buying. We didn't see the puppy's sister. She also had one more dog that i saw that was very big and white (not sure of the breed). She had 2 birds in a cage as well and although we didn't see any, she said that she also owned 4 cats.
The house from what we saw was kept moderately clean. It smelled of smoke but that's about it. It was in a very secluded area which was an hour and a half away from where i live.
I am not planning on breeding the puppy, i just simply want a pet. I know that with a pedigree it pretty much tells you whether the puppy is purebred but to be honest, if he has like 1/3 or whatever of another breed, it doesn't really make a difference to me because like i said, i'm looking for a pet that i can love - not a puppy to breed. I'm just kind of scared to take her word for it. She seems like a really nice woman and i absolutely fell in love with the puppy when i saw him but i don't want to be stuck afterwards with huge vet bills. I understand that i will obviously be paying vet bills but if i'm paying money for him, i'd like to feel at ease that he'll be safe from serious disease for at least the first year. I know it can't be guaranteed but i've read posts from other posters here saying that some of their puppies got sick within the first week of getting them and they were stuck paying up to $1000's more.

Do you guys think that i should maybe ask her if i could take the puppy to my own vet and get him checked out before...since she is not offering a health guarantee?

Thanks again!

You can take the puppy to your vet, but unless the puppy is sick now, your vet won't be able to predict his future health. Many genetic diseases don't show symptoms for several years and there is no test to look for genetic markers. That's why it's so important to get a puppy from a breeder who knows her lines generations back and health tests the dogs she breeds for liver disease, luxating patellas, eyes, thyroid function, etc. As I said earlier, just read the Sick and Health sections and you will see all the Yorkies with liver disease. With Yorkies having 36 times more liver shunts than all other breeds combined, I personally would not even consider getting a puppy from anyone who did not know if her lines were free of shunts and had bile acid tested the parents.

Again, my Lady was perfectly healthy until she was four years old. She now has a laundry list of diseases including epilepsy and diabetes (she has to get insulin shots twice a day) and her medications and diabetic supplies run $5,000 a year.

Bargain puppies can be no bargain in the long run.

Well... I think that there is no perfect puppy and there are always risks one just has to take. You mentioned that you are able to afford vet bills and there will be vet bills, if not now then later. A big junk of luck always plays a role in the purchase of a puppy. The puppies with a long pedigree and health guarantee are way more expensive and run from $1,000 upwards and can get sick too...

Maybe you could give this a thought: since you are a first time Yorkie owner you might look into adopting a puppy or an older one from a rescue organisation. Those babies are always already spayed/neutered, health monitored, vaccinated, mostly house broken and the foster parents can tell you about there likes and dislikes. You would also not have to worry about somebody trying to pull a scam on you and above all you would give a poor homeless baby the chance of a new life... :)

I wish I would have read this before I went looking for a puppy! I love my Sophie and wouldn't trade her for anything but you have some really good points!

And at least you are doing your research BEFORE you take one home. Good luck. Rescue puppy, Backyard breader, pets store or pound they all need homes and some love!

I didn't get a health guarantee when I bought my boys. They were $750 each and came with the paperwork for me to file them for AKC. I did not register them since I had them fixed and had no intentions of breeding, showing, etc. They were just pets. Her vet gave them a clean bill of health, and my vet did too for the most part. One of them had a heart murmur, but it was not horrible and it closed up within a year. I know I was lucky that they are so healthy, you could be too. Or not. I respect breeders very much and all the work they do to ensure a great pup, but I don't think hobby breeders are bad people breeding bad dogs either. If you cannot get a health guarantee without jacking up the price of the pup, then take the pup to your vet (maybe she'll pick up the price of that) and have him examed there for your own comfort. Make sure the vet checks for yorkie/small breed congenital things. However some won't be known at this young of an age yet. I think there is a test for live shunt and for LP, along with some other tests to make sure he is healthy.