choc. yorkie
 

Hi, This is the first time I have posted on the web. I have been reading on the chocolate yorkie. I have been breeding yorkies for some time now and have champion stock. I have just had a litter of yorkies from a Grand Show Champion's son and a 9 champion pedigree female of the Rothby line. The female had 2 puppies and both were Chocolate. For this to happen, something had to happen to the dna. The female was bred artifical and I believe there must have been a reaction to the rubber and or plastic in the breeding. This is not a ressive gene as many think it is. What happens is the color gene is mutated. Fox and mink ranchers call this the cinnimon which in turn has developed many colors from this mutation. Hope this info helps. Wayne

Hi, it's not common to run into Yorkie Breeders here in MT!! It's nice to find someone so close by!!!! What do chocolate yorkies look like? Can you post a picture? Thanks!

hi, I do not have any photos available now. Puppies are only 2 days old now. I will post some later. Thanks Wayne

WOW thanks for the quick response!!! That's no prob! I'll be waiting...oh yah and I almost forgot to WELCOME you TO YT!!! I'm sure you'll love it here....we all do!!!

:yorkietal

I will be watching for the pictures too!

Since I joined yt, there has been much controversy about choc yorkies.. and how bad breeders are who breed them..I have seen breeders attacked on this forum for having choc yorkies... I for one appreciate the information you put here.. and to know that you have good lines proves that to me choc yorkies are not as bad as what it is made out to be..
I do not have a choc yorkie.. but I love their coloring from what I have seen.. and I would love to see pictures of those babies as they grow..
also welcome to yt... anne

What exactly is a chocolate yorkie? My Dolce has a dark brown coat but the roots are steel bluish looking and he has a brown nose and green eyes

Welcome
 

Hi and welcome to YT:wavey:I've not seen a chocolate yorkie before - can't wait to see pics of your little ones xxx xxx

Sounds beautiful!

choc yorkie
 

Hi everyone, I posted some info on the talk yesterday on the chocolate yorkie. This was the first time I have posted anything. I thought I needed to after reading about the chocolate yorkie in an previous forum. I would say a lot of people breeding yorkies do not understand genetics. If we only breed for the AKC standard then we have problems indeed. Some are inbreeding to get their perfect dog according to the standards causing major defects in other areas that may not be seen with the eye, bad livers, weak joints, etc. These defects are then passed on for generations. Some of the chocolate yorkies are produced from inbreeding causing the defect seen. This is a weak dog and will carry many other weaknesses if inbreeding is continued. Some chocolate yorkies are born as mine was from other things that may have caused the change in the dna. This would still be a strong and healthy dog but not to the akc standard. If two of the chocolate yorkies are bred together and then produce a dominate gene. the chocolate yorkie would be established as a new color phase of the yorkie. This yorkie would still have all of the champion genes from it ancestry as registered with akc or other registries. I am still trying to post a picture as an attachment. Wayne

Welcome to yorkietalk!

I for one, not being hooked up on AKC standards, think the chocolate
Yorkies are beautiful. Your annology was very interesting. You learn
something new daily here on YT.
Congratulations with your new litter. Someone will be very lucky
to get them or are you keeping them?
Welcome to YT also.

I am more than curious about this being a defect in the DNA. All the research I have done explained that it was caused by a recessive gene that both parents had to carry. So I'm headed back to research .


This is my little male that is now 6 weeks old.

Attachment 253678

First and foremost, welcome to YT! And, congratulations on the new editions!!!

I happen to know first hand that notwithstanding the usual genetics defects of standards, i.e. shunts, bad knees, etc. - Chocolate yorkies are just as healthy as standards. Based on all the literature that I have read since being adopted by them (just check my photo album :rolleyes:) and further confirmations by my Veterinarian, only the little ones that are born blue give reason for health concerns.

Wishing you the best of luck with little ones!

welcome to YT! pup looks precious! learn new things everyday here on yt

I for one am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO in LOVE with the Chocolate Color. I think they are absolutely, positively without a doubt some of the most beautiful dogs I have ever seen.

choc yorkie
 

Hi, Just a follow up about the question of ressive gene and the dna. If the chocolate is bred to a standard yorkie that offspring may be the standard color but would then carry a ressive gene for the chocolate but it is not where the chocolate came from in the beginning. Wayne

Welcome to YT:D I would love to see photos of all your yorkies!!!!!!! Even if I do get jealous;);)

Is there any scientific proof that rubber or plastic changes DNA? I wonder what DNa changes have been done to the human race if this is true? AI has been done for many many years on many different species without "side effects".

You took the words right out of my mouth. Plastic causing a mutation of a gene? Now that's a new one. :p I think the more probable cause is "something" hiding somewhere in the genetics of the lines.

:thumbup::thumbup:RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!

choc yorkie
 

Hi, there are some questions arising about how plastic or rubber may have caused the mutation to Chocolate. I have studied how mutations are caused. A mutation can be caused from 2 types of radation, or chemical or virus. I know my yorkies were not exposed to radation. I am not sure if this reaction to plastic or rubber in the artifical breeding is the cause only could be. I also know my yorkies do not have ressive genes for chocolate. When I first saw the puppies I was both shocked and dumfounded to see the Chocolate color. Why would both puppies born be chocolate unless this is a true mutation caused by something and not passed down? My yorkies do not have any chocolate in their history and not inbred. Inbreeding might cause defects as the chocolate color and many other undiserable traits. If you question my opinions on this being a mutation, please give me some scientific info that I can research. A photo of Misty the female that had the chocolate puppies is attached. She has 9 champions in her pedigree of the Rothby line. She is now 7 years old. wayne

She is a BEAUTY :)

So what does artifical breeding mean? She is 7 years old now, I am not a breeder, but I thought that's a little old to be still having pups (please correct me if I am wrong?)
...My Mom's yorkie just turned 7 and I just can not picture her having pups right now (she is spayed, so it couldn't happen anyway) :p

Does this mean that when a mans condom breaks, there is a possibility of DNA changes in human children:D Same principle as Ai, sperm going through a plastic tube. You may be on to something!! Doctors dont know how one acquires Fiber mayalgia(sp?), MS, and a multitude of other auto-immune problems.LOL
As for your pedigree, you have to know every breeder and every dog and what every dog in that pedigree has produced in every litter to find out where your little chocolate ones came from. I dont believe that Roberta Rothenbach has ever produced a chocolate, so I doubt very much if it came from her lines.

Genetic mutation can be caused by a very wide variety of things. However, odds are better that it was genetic, rather than a shot in the dark theoretical cause. Alot of times we (as humans) go to the extreme to try to disprove something we undesireable rather than consider the obvious.

choc yorkie
 

hi, To answer the question, "what is artifical breeding" artifical breeding is taking the sperm from a diserable male and injecting it into the female in her heat cycle by the use of a rubber tube and plastic syringe. Also Misty is now spayed because of her age. Some breeders stop at 8 years. wayne

Thanks for explaining the process to me.
She is a beauty and I know that in the AKC breeding world, chocolate is undesired, but I think they are absolutely stunning and just as precious as the 'accepted color' ;)

OH!! He's Beautiful!!
 

He is so adorable!!!:aimeeyork:aimeeyork

This is also my thinking on your theory of DNA mutation causing your choc pups. If, as you say, that the plastic or rubber tubing used to AI your bitch caused a mutation, then it could only cause a mutation in the sperm, not the egg as the eggs dont pass through the tubeing. In your theory, then you would have only 1 recessive mutant gene(the sperm) and you would not get chocolate coloration in the first generation. The puppies would only be carriers of the mutant chocolate gene. So, in your theory, your bitch would have to already be a carrier of the chocolate gene in order to produce choc colored puppies.

Also, the sperm is not in the tube long enough for a mutation to occure.

I have a chocolate yorkie 16lb boy. His parents are 5-7lb standard color yorkies. 2 of the 6 were born chocolate. His sister was noticeability smaller in size at 9 weeks old. At the age of 9 months Chunk was diagnosed with retina degeneration and is now totally blind. I know this is where God wants Chunk to be. He has brought us so much happiness and he gets around just fine in our home and trailer. We have 2 other dogs who the Dr. say are his guide dogs. I advised the breeder of Chunk's condition and advised her that his parents are carriers of this defective gene that causes blindness. I can't believe she hadn't been informed of this before. I also don't like the fact that that she is to this day selling the litters at $950 for a male chocolate yorkie. Last year we paid $700 for Chunk I doubt that she is telling her customers that blindness might be possible. Her name is Robbie Harris from La Habra Heights, CA. We have now regrets about Chunk but not anyone would feel this way especially after paying this much money.
A righteous man regards the life of his animal..... Proverbs 12:10