Opinions Needed/Welcome
 

Hello!

Most here know that Jeanie was just very sick, and in hospital. She is home now and is acting normal. She is eating well, lots of energy again, and is drinking, going #1, #2 not so well just yet. But then the Vet did put her on a new diet and a supplement for her liver/antibiotics, so that could explain the lack of #2 (she did yesterday, just not last night or this AM like normal).

Anyway, the vet saw her Friday when she was really ill.....throwing up, dehydrated, and her bowel movement was very gross. After giving her intervenous and some stomach meds to calm her stomach, she was fine. Saturday she was pretty much back to normal, Sunday even more so.

Sunday we get a call that a fasting test showed that there is more wrong with the liver than just her being sick from ingesting something. Her X Ray showed her liver was enlarged, and her blood test showed that her enzymes are elevated before and after eating (apparently a bad sign).

So they want her back to do an ultrasound, then a coagulation panel, then a biopsy - under a general anesthetic and all that. YIKES! I'm looking at my doggy back to normal, looking happy, and I'm told that she could have liver shunt or other horrible things...........and I have what looks to be a happy healthy dog?? I'm confused.

The day before her sick day, she was normal, with energy eating and bathroom......the day after, back to normal. If she had an ongoing liver problem, wouldn't she show signs of being sick before this, and after? Why one day of acute symptoms, and then a diagnosis of a liver problem? My common sense tells me - and I am not a doctor so I could be wrong - that she got into something, it passed, and she is fine now?

We are getting a second opinion from a friend that is a vet, but wondered if anyone here could give me some insight, rest my fears....help me with this.

It's very frightening, and I'm scared that there is something really wrong. We are watching her closely and making sure that we take her in on the first sign of illness.......but really? $1000 to do a bunch of tests, and then do something? Call in a specialist they say......oh my we are getting up there in the major thousands now.......My baby is so worth it, but again, she seems fine???

input??

Darcey

Please - Anyone??
 

Can anyone help?

Only a Vet. can help with the problem. Liver shunt is correctable and if that's what she has, then she will be fixed good as new. It's nice that your getting a second opinion. Did they mention Bile Acid Test? Maybe they ran that one too.

They did do the bile acid test, and that's what she said made her want to do the other stuff (biopsy etc).

My concern is, can the liver react like this if ingesting something toxic, and then be ok? It seems so acute........like it doesn't seem like it would have been an ongoing liver problem? And there is no genetic run of this in the breeders dogs......they have never had this problem.

I don't know, seems to me like it was a reaction to something that day, rather than an ongoing problem. That's what I am struggling with (but we are keeping up the investigation.....)

What are her BAT #'s Pre and Post?

I have been there with Roxy. Her first BAT pre was about 43 and post was 100.9

I was sent to a specialist, they did a complete CBC, coagulation panel, urine analysis and an ultrasound. Every thing was normal. They did these tests to see if anything else would lean towards LS b/c a BAT post of a 100 is suppose to be shunt territory.

The ultrasound showed a normal size and normal shape liver, no shunt was seen, however, you must know that a u/s is not 100% accurate. So she could have still had a shunt, basically a u/s is really pointless and a waste of $.

Roxy shows no ordinary symptoms of LS. We changed her diet and I have added supplements to aid her liver. She has had about 5 more BATs in the past year. Her pre # has come down to normal, but her post # remains in the low 60s - She most likely has MVD - I am declining on opening her up for a biopsy. She is doing well with our routine now and don't want to do anything not really needed. If a biopsy showed MVD, we would still be doing the same routine anyway.

I don't know - I gave the blood test results to the friend that is a vet that is giving us a second opinion.........

But it was not good - or the vet that we took her to wouldn't be wanting to go further....I can't believe it. I'm in shock that my baby that has been so healthy until one day last week has a big problem?

Thank you - that helps a little....I'm sorry that Roxy is sick too :( My baby has been the picture of health her whole 18 months, I'm shocked.

We are giving her the liver supplements, and a nice easy diet now that the vet prescribed. And the antibiotics, so no matter what, we are helping now hey?

There are things that can throw a BAT off. Vaccines, meds, antib's, heartworm pills, frontline, etc...

The enlarged liver on the xray would kinda worry me, I don't know what that could mean :confused:

What supplements?
What Vet food?

I know the enlarged liver is very troublesome. But I still wonder if she had gotten into something, wouldn't this happen? Since she got sick so fast, and got well so quickly, don't you think that sounds strange???

She's on Canine Gastro Formula food and Denosyl 90 mg tablets. Also, she is taking amoxicillin...........

Ya know, I have no idea what would cause an enlarged liver, not to scare you, but I would have to lead to it being a liver issue. Now, I don't know if a shunt could be the case or MVD or something else :confused:

I know that we all tend to think that if something were seriously wrong with our dogs that they would be sick instantly from day one. Roxy is 3.5 yrs old. She has NEVER been sick, other than luxating patella, which she has had 2 surgeries for, oh and her spay. All bloodwork done was normal, nothing to indicate anything was wrong with her. When she was 2.5 yrs. old I did a BAT on her b/c I had gotten some information about other pups being sick from the same breeder, actually, these pups were from the same parents as Roxy. Well, Thank God I did, b/c she DOES have liver issues, most likely MVD. Even my Vet said good job for taking the steps I did, b/c he would have NEVER suggested to a BAT on her, that's how normal she is.

Keep us posted on your second opinion. I hope all works out :(

:(

That makes me sad.....she probably has something wrong with her then....not just got into something bad.......

I don't want you to be sad. I honestly do not know. I do believe that *things* can throw off tests, but I just don't know about the liver being enlarged :confused:

Maybe do a google search :confused:

I did....and it's just overwhelming all the ifs and maybes....so I am just going to wait on the friend's diagnosis.....and we will have the bile test done again in two weeks for sure....and if no decrease, then we have to do the next right thing.

my baby looks so happy, full of life.........:(

Here's my baby right now on the petcam, looking out the window - happy as can be.......I'm so saddened by the thought of her being sick. I know some things can be fixed, but still, any general anesthetic scares me, all tests are hard.....

She bounced back so well.....

I love her so much.......

problem
 

If she were my Yorkie, I would not go hunting for a liver problem because of one stomach illness that she bounced back to normal from in one day...but that is me.
Do you know a cardiologist told me that Yorkies hearts are often mistaken for enlarged, because many vets do not know Yorkies have a slightly larger heart then other dogs for their size? I had a 3 pounder with an enlarged heart and liver, the specialist told me that was not uncommon for a small Yorkie..she was never sick from it...died at 14 yrs.

My Yorkie would have to have several serious, unexplained stomach upsets for me to biopsy her liver...Yorkies are famous for gastric problems out of the blue..they can eat something new or rich, get stressed, vaccines, new flea meds, so many reasons....of course, I believe in treating sick dogs, but often we make then sicker by going to far, too fast...

Didn't we have a member some years back go through the exact same problem...they even cut the poor Yorkie open to reveal a perfectly healthy, well formed liver, but slightly enlarged??? The member posted pic's of the incision..surgery for absolutely no reason...

How does her breath smell..often liver problems will give off a smell of nail polish remover.

The numbers could've been thrown off by something.
Could you not do any meds or vaccines and then retest a couple weeks later?
Biopsy is not the right way to go for some dogs, especially if the vet isn't in there for another surgery.
Ultrasounds are only 60-80% accurate, so you may not want to go that way.
I would have a hard time dishing out all that money for more testing if the bile acids could be up do to something else.
Then again, I don't want to say to wait and it be the wrong thing.
What is the ALT?

All the blood test results we took to a friend that is a vet, so I don't have the #'s.....all I can remember is that the Liver enzymes that were supposed to be around 100 were up at 700.......

and the vet did say that the heart is big, but did know that they are big in yorkies (that's because they love so much).......but the liver, where it should look like a triangle, was right up against the other organ in the Xray. So who knows.

I agree with the poster that said one day sick, and now we are told our dog is frightfully ill......I'm just at a loss.

So I am happy to get the info here.....and I do know it could end up being nothing, or something, but I appreciate all the feedback good/bad or indifferent.

Again, I have a happy little girlie at home that is "full of beans" my landlady says - jumping, playing, chirping and happy......

and yes, we are going to do the test again in two weeks - after monitoring her very closely and watching for anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, now we don't want her near anything that might be "toxic" not that we ever did.....but now we are afraid to let her drink out of the doggie bowls down at the beach, and/or walk on peoples grass (might have fertilizer on it)....all the possibilities........maybe better to just be so hyper-aware...I don't know.

Ya, I agree...the vet found the liver problem........after doing the xray and blood work :confused:

Her breath smells fine to me - the usual doggie breath I am used to with her :)

test
 

When you repeat the BA...she must not only fast, but do not allow her to smell any food that morning..human or canine..a vet told me it is the Pavlav's dog theory...he rang a bell, which meant dinner time and his dogs started salivating at the mouth...dogs smell food and enemzes get ready to digest expected food coming..