buying from a reputable breeder
 

If a pup is guaranteed to be "small" or under 5lbs and the puppy grows to 7lbs at 10 months, does anyone know if the breeder can be made to resolve the matter by a refund of some kind or another puppy, please? I am a pensioner and always craved a tiny 3-4 ib yorkie but couldn't afford one until now. I saw an ad guaranteeing "tiny" and "small" pups and phoned. I was shown a puppy that I had seen a photo on their site and he was 12 weeks and weighed 2 1/2 lbs. He was so adorable, i trusted the breeder when she estimated the pup would grow no more than 5 lbs. and I paid a high price as he was "an exclusive teddy yorkie from Brazil". There were no papers but I insisted that a pedigree should be available for a purebred puppy and she finally agreed if I had a chip implanted and get the vet to confirm that the chip was planted. I have done this, sent the vet's letter and am waiting for the next step from her. I have paid an exorbitant price for puppy that at 7lbs is standard size so I did not get what I paid for. Is thee any advice as to how I cen get compensation in some form? Thanks for listening

britt

This sounds bad---
 

I'm so sorry that you appear to have been somewhat scammed. I doubt you have any legal recourse and the costs of pursuing any would probably be prohibitive. Your puppy is fully grown now, so please just love him as a wonderful companion. A reputable breeder wouldn't make promises regarding size unless they were willing to back them up. I don't understand what the microchip has to do with releasing pedigree information either. Also, remember that although the tiny ones are very cute, the bigger ones are generally nicer pets.

Well its very hard to even think you would get your money back. Have you called this breeder or person again? What did they tell you? Most breeders never guarantee the sizes. You can even see the parents and that doesn't really mean a whole lot when your puppy could grow bigger. Did you know this person you got your puppy from and had you researched them and talked to others that had gotten dogs from them? We all learn the hard way sometimes and this sounds like you might have been taken. There are more and more of these people out there and it takes a long time to to collect information before purchasing. Its a hard rule to have to learn. But here at YT its easier to check around and find out about different people/breeders in an area before purchasing and see if anyone knows about them. Sorry you are unhappy. But I hope you can love this dog, its not his fault.

:DHello, my family are owners of 2 "normal" sized Yorkies and they are absolutely wonderful, they can sit on your lap as well as any 3 to 4 pounder there is. They are very protective and friendlly. My nephew has a little one and has had to take it to the vet with problems from the start. I personally love the sizes of my babies. I wouldn't worry to much about even trying to get my money back, they are well worth it at any price. My advice to you is to just love it no matter what size. Good luck to you.:D

If you don't mind me asking, who was the breeder? Was she right from BC or from Alberta?

I am sorry you are upset that your yorkie is bigger then expected..quite honestly I think you made out pretty good. You have a standard size yorkie, healthy, I assume. Now, imagine if your yorkie was 3lbs and suffered from liver shunt or hypoglycemia. Or your pup grew to be 12lbs..I think you have the perfect size. Read all the threads on liver shunt and hypoglycemia and you might feel a lot better about your yorkie..plus 7lbs is still a very small dog.

All you can do is go by what the written guarantee promised. Unless you have something in writing saying that the breeder guaranteed size and would do" such and such" if it exceeded the guaranteed weight then I do not think you have any recourse.

I personally will never guarantee a puppy's weight, genetics have all the control and I just am not able to see into the future. All I can do is know my lines and make the best possible estimation.

If the puppy was brokered then I doubt the breeder would be able to estimate adult size not knowing and working with the lines firsthand.

I always recommend to people wanting to buy a smaller yorkie to buy one that is 6-12 months old. Still not a guarantee but your chances of knowing adult weight is so much better.

No Gaurantees
 

A Breeder can't "Gaurantee" size, they cannot predict it!
At the time I bred Artie he was 7 lbs. and now @ 4 1/2 yrs. old he is 10 lbs.
At the time I bred Abigail with Artie she was 8 lbs. and now @ 3 yrs.
she's 9 lbs.
But Tiffany their puppy is 1 yr. and 9 months old, she is only 4 1/2 lbs.
I recently saw a male puppy from the same Litter and he was only 5 lbs.
I was expecting them to be bigger, so when they ended up smaller it was a Bonus. I Love each of them regardless of what size they are now!
Most Breeder's sell their Puppies too young so they are much smaller and lie about their age. It's sad that every one always wants a tiny one.
I worry much more with the smaller one......her head gets stuck in the Shopping cart, if you're not watching her she is more accident prone and not as sturdy as her Parents. She is very Healthy due to her Breeding, but her size makes her a higher risk for falling, jumping, big Dog Attacks!
Most Breeder's know you will fall in Love with the puppy once you get it and the size won't be an issue, not enough to pursue "Legally" any way.
You have to ask yourself is it really worth your time & energy?
I'm Sorry this Breeder took advantage of you. When I was selling my puppies, I got alot of calls wanting a "Teacup" that's all they wanted they did'nt care about the 14 Champions in their Pedigree! Love your Yorkie and be "Thankful"
that you have one to Love. Good Luck in your pursuit but it sounds like the Breeder is still not cooperating and I doubt if they compensate you.

This is so ironic because I almost went to see a breeders pup yesterday that she predicts will be 3lbs..she is 11 weeks and is only1lb and 6.0z..I figure she may end up only a little over 2lbs..I don't want to buy her because she may be too small. This scares me..Although I am tempted to go see her I think I might be asking for a world of heartache..She also may be healthy as a horse..but without enough research on the breeders history I am taking a huge risk...

I have a feeling I have read about this very breeder here on YT. I think their are other YTers that purchased from her and others that were warned to stay away. I can't remember the name, but she was in Canada and she was really, reaaly young and she also shipped Yorkies in from Brazil hmmm.....


Here, I did a search: Was it Deana Junk at LITTLE YORKIE KISS | WHERE YORKIES MEAN LOVE


http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...er-broker.html

wow. that was a scary thread..I have done a lot of research and I swear if I lived in Canada and stumbled on her website I would have been easily influenced..it's the old bait and switch routine.

I am sorry this happened to you... However, I think the most important thing here is the health of your pup. I am uncertain as to why you wanted such a tiny puppy? If they are under the 2lb mark they can get very, ill, and have many health issues.
No onecan predicit how much a dog will weigh full grown. You were told what you wanted to hear. 7lbs is still a very small dog. Love the dog, please, and be grateful it is healthy.:aimeeyork
I seriously doubt your going to recieve a refund.

Does size really matter.... the age old question
 

I am going to start off saying that I am not fussing at you personally and I really really understand the frustrating nature of your situation...... There is a certain palatable disappointment that comes with realizing what you were promised isn't what you received. Although, there were some red flags I'm sure you see in retrospect and do not need me or anyone else to point out....If I were you, I would really evaluate this on a personal level as matters of Dog Law are well, probably not in your favor.... I want you to bear in mind, some of my favorite dogs have been my "ugliest" biggest rowdiest.... Some of my most beautiful perfectly proportioned dogs are real A**es and would make poor family pets. You may wish to stop reading here as I am only taking this opportunity to remind potential buyers how important reputable breeders are...... How do you find one of those....LOTS and LOTS of VISITS WITH LOTS OF BREEDERS FROM LOTS OF PLACES ASKING LOTS OF QUESTIONS...... If you don't have a list of questions a quick post on this board asking for lists of questions will provide you with more than you needed, I Promise......

However, for those thinking about purchasing a puppy and unafraid to read on... here goes the rant....
Use the following formula to approximate size at maturity: 3 x the weight at 8 weeks or 2 x the weight at 12 weeks in conjunction with a growth chart on which you track weight from birth to 12 wks and 2 generations of genetics. A consiencious breeder will have that info readily available for you the first time you ask. That breeder will also have a comprehensive log of Veterinarian records for you to peruse as well as permission granted to contact the veterinarian of record. (FYI: don't ask till you get there, don't even mention it on the phone)
Even with all the data in the world, most can't do any better than an educated guess on a 15 week old but the data will show you that you have found a true breeder consumed by the quality of what he or she produces and the happiness of his or her buyers. That breeder has put in countless hours of real nose to the grindstone record keeping and hours of observation. It is always good to bear in mind that a 2 lb sire and 4 lb dam can easily produce a 10lb puppy at maturity. Dog genetics are no different than two right handed parents producing a lefty. As goes the world of dog genetics. I think what frustrates me the most are the two sides of that coin.... uneducated breeders who have never opened a book on genetics and don't intend to as well as buyers who pursue the concept of the ideal pet, but take no time to search out a top notch breeder. In fact size should never be the sole selling point.Descriptive words are never a guarantee.... You may end up with a 6 lb "tea cup" if you aren't careful. Also, breeder records are invaluable as to what size dogs any Dam / Sire combination may produce. Occasionally puppies will weigh less than 3 lbs at maturity. Our breeding program has produced several under 2's who have never had one health problem, others that die prior to 15 wks or just after. Be aware, you are just getting a description and nothing more, nothing special. All breeders are pulled into that fad description game at one time or another... I know i've been there.... Competing in the dog market is only getting harder. It is really difficult to swallow losing a sale to a "back yard breeder" who lists the word teacup in the ad and hasn't the first inkling of knowledge about the breed while you bust your rear everyday... I know, I sound a bit agitated, yes.... If buyers continue to reward poor breeders with poor practices, it simply won't matter anymore anyway.... Nothing that resembles a healthy Yorkie will be left. Reputable breeders do not gear breeding programs around producing puppies that are less than 3 lbs, but selling a puppy that will make a quality pets is acceptable no mater the size. In fact, a 2lb puppy produced out of a kennel routinely producing 5 lb or larger dogs is coming out of a healthy breeding program, IMO... Buyers must ask questions.... I'm going to stop here because I think I'm just making myself mad rather than making a point....

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Thank you for that wonderful post, it just kills me that so many people look for one trait and one trait only, and that’s size. There are so many other things to consider. I hate the way we continue rewarding backyard breeders and puppy millers, but until people start looking at other attributes that's the way it will be. It's impossible to find the absolute perfect specimen, and if it exists, it probably should be bred instead of just being placed in a pet home. Educate yourselves on the qualities a good breeder should have, and only support those breeders who have a great breeding program. Any of their pups should be "perfect" pets.

SET Yorkies, I just want you to know that there are many people out there that are so thankful for breeders like you.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!

The woman runs a brokerage with her sister in Brazil. They have a huge site with photos and guarantee tht their pups are all amsll. She estimates that whatever the size at 12 weeks, double it for the final weight when full grown. I was taken by the photos and trusted what she said when I met her to see the puppy I had chosen to see. She advertises the organization as the " original home of the exclusive teddy bear Brazilian Yorkies. I have emailed her twice and received no answer. The puppy is adorable but not what I had planned for for a long time and I paid a lot of $ for him.

I think you know who I mean.

could you post her site please....just curious....

She should not have promised a pup to be a certain weight full grown, yes that was wrong. If you paid a crazy amount for a very tiny, tiny pup (b/c that's what she wanted to charge for her tinies only) than that's not fair.

Now, 7lbs IMO - is really a great size. I have a 4lbs and I have a 7lbs. I wouldn't trade them for the world. To be honest, they are the same size all around, except one weighs 7lbs and one weighs 4 lbs. By looking at them you would have NO idea on the weight difference.

Best of luck! I do hope you love your pup regardless :(

im sorry u got scammed but please dont return the puppy. its not the puppy's fault. i dont see how 2 or 3 lbs makes a difference :confused:. my abby right now weighs about 3lbs at 5 mo. who knows if she will grow more later on or not? to be honest i dont really care. as long as they r healthy i dont c a prob.

You seriously want to return a 10mo old puppy? How have you not fallen totally and completely in love with him?

well said! i totally agree! i am sure others on here does too....

www.westcoastyorkies.com
 

Oh jeez.......

ok guys, this breeder/broker is not deanna from alberta.

This lady is a broker who brings in "teacup" "teddybear faced" yorkies from Brazil. Her website is westcoastyorkies.com and she's located in Vancouver

I looked into her when i was looking for my first yorkie. The yorkies she brings in are of high quality - however, I believe she misleads many buyers by using the word teacup or teddybear. Her site never has any new puppies- they are always pups who have already been sold. She uses her website and her advertising (all over kijiji and craiglist) to bring in potential buyers - wherein she puts them on a waiting list and "orders" their baby from brazil. She is a great talker and is all about the "sell sell sell" mantra. I'm certain she told the op whatever she wanted to hear. And I totally believe she goes for the ignorant buyer. The way she raves about what weight the puppies will grow to be is a total selling tactic, especially since she fails to write it down in a contract.

From the few people I have spoken to - they have all been very pleased with their yorkies. However, I would never buy from her because she is a broker.

My main issue with this thread is the OP --------- i cannot believe that you can stop caring for your pet because of size issues. It is CLEAR to me that you have NO inkling of knowledge about the yorkshire terrier breed. And it frightens me that you would even consider returning the pup after 4 months with him/her. I do not believe that this broker sells her pups for $2500 + for their size only because she is too open about their weights and numbers, and if the pup weighs almost 3 lbs at 12 weeks, it would give u a good indication of their size as an adult. I believe that she told you what you wanted to hear to make the sale, but you should have done your research to know what was fact and what was fiction. I have no pity for you and no, i do not believe you were scammed because you received a healthy puppy of good quality (though I'm a little concerned about Linda's comments concerning registration).If she is ignoring your emails (which she is, because she is very diligent in her replies for potential buyers), and you have no other method of contacting her, I don't feel sorry for you because you did not do your homework.

I have two yorkies who are identical in their physical sizes, yet one weighs 3 lbs and the other is now 5 lbs and will mostly get to 6. Weight is JUST a NUMBER - and should not determine your love for the animal. Just be grateful you have a beautiful animal to love.

many people go by that rule of thumb - "double the weight at 12 weeks" but it is never a guarantee.

So, though you had "always wanted" a 3-4 lb yorkie, you ended up purchasing one that would be 5 lbs adult weight. I do not think her prices are solely based on size.

No chance of returniing him!! I wanted some satisfaction of cash refund or another puppy to heal the hurt of betrayal I felt from another human being. I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt when trusting a stranger. Thanks.

finding a reputable breeder-original message
 

Thanks to all for your comments. For those who doubt my knowledge, I spent 35 years showing and utility training German Shepherd breed at which I was quite successful. Of course all the breeders I met during those years we were aware of bad ones and stayed away. I am now a senior and have been plagued with spine and leg pain and live on morphine. I had always wanted a very small housedog as a companion as I had 6 Persian cats and an older 12lb Yorkie. Thats why I wanted a tiny one for a change., which I could nurse on my lap when resting. I adore the puppy I received from this person but I have paid a very large $ for a small puppy specifically. Not being fully familiar with sizes of other bigger Yorkies and having just got out of bed with pneumonia, I saw the photo of my pup and fell in love with him. I just had to have him at any price. I feel betrayed by this woman whom I trusted was being straight with me. She even advertises a guarantee that hers small on her sites. I just feel that she shouldn't be able to charge so highly and guarantee size when it turns out to be untrue. No way would I return my puppy; I wanted a partial refund for the deception and the ability to get away with it. So, those who berated me as "wanting to hear what she told me" were so wrong. Look at her site if you know it, read the guarantee and see the pictures and see the quotes of expected weights. I have worked with dogs all my life, just not familiar with brokers. Always dealt straight with the breeder and observed the pups I bought in the past. Thanks again, the puppy is doing well.

Britt: First and foremost, I would like to apologize for the tone in my previous messages. I was under the impression that you had wanted to "return" him. Looking back at the original post, you actually never said that - you simply said you wanted compensation - money-or another puppy, and I apologize for jumping the gun.

I am very relieved that you will not be returning the pup. And I appreciate that you explained why you were focused on getting a smaller sized yorkie.

If you truly believe that the breeder guaranteed size - and that that is why you paid so much, than yes, I would suggest that she return some money. But in reality - will she? - unless you have a contract stating such, then its very much doubtful. I'm not sure what the law says with respect to verbal contracts.

But one thing is for sure.... please push for the registration. You did pay a lot of money for a purebred yorkie of good quality. Perhaps meet with her in person. I have found that when things are discussed in person, things go a lot better than waiting around for emails or phonecalls - because those things can be avoided. She can't avoid you in person.

I'm not sure what the law is in Canada, but here in the US people can recover money if they are promised a "teacup" and the puppy grows to be larger than promised.

This is a cute case to read:

O'Rourke v. American Kennels

interesting case!

Oh how sad I am for you !! :( I totally undestand that you have been looking for a puppy that you can carry around in your purse. I am sad that you have been taken advantage of. Nobody can guarantee the size of a puppy !!!! Also if you purchased a puppy as a purebred you are entitled to receive the registration papers. Please report the breeder to the kennel club that he/she belongs to if you do not receive the registration papers. CKC members have to register their puppies in the new owners name within 6 months of purchase. .................. Experienced breeders can predict the size of their puppies based on previous litters. This takes a lot of time, effort and skill. By skill I mean that the breeder has used both parents, keeps a detailed record of every litter they raise and follows the puppies to adulthood. Still, there is never a guarantee. The puppy weight chart is just a guide. If you double the weight at age 12 weeks you will likely get fairly close to the adult weight .That only works if your puppy grows up in a healthy environment. Some "breeders " will use inaccurate scales or withhold food so the puppy is small at purchase and when you take him home he will gain weight fast. If size is very important to you bring your own sensitive digital kitchen scale and weigh the puppy yourself before you purchase...................I hope that you will still love your little friend. Health is more important than size. There are a lot of good breeders out there and I have been lucky to find honest and knowledgeable people that were willing to share information and experiences. My motto goes " If there is room for one Yorkie there is always room for another one ". I have posted some links on my web site Welcome to our Yorkie Family | of good sites that have breeders lists.