Hmmmmm.... I have never seen his show, so I can't really say anything about that.

I am 9/10 through his book... I'm almost done reading it! lol I don't agree with EVERYTHING, but then again.. I rarely agree with EVERYTHING a particular person is saying! I take what I want and leave the rest...

He has some serious points in his book that are really hitting home with me... about how we humanize out dogs... He's right.. About how we use methods on them that would be great for our children but not so great for DOGS.... About giving affection at the right and wrong times and how it can reinforce their fears and phobias! I have learned alot from him... Not all of it will I use... But I feel that he has alot to teach... Not everything works for everyone.. and if he gets his face bitten off... well thats his doing... you won't see me down in the food dish with an angry pit bull!!!! ;)

To be fair one should explain that the only time Cesar uses force like that on a dog is when the dog has bitten either a peron or another dog, and then his reaction is immediate and harsh.

I wonder how those people advocate handling an agressive dog. It might look harsh, but it is really Tough Love. If it rehabilitates and keeps them from being euthanized, doesn't the result justify the means.

There is a lot of controversy over teenage bootcamps also, but if it gets the kids out of gangs and keeps him/her alive, Isn't it worth it.

It also says right on the screen that NO ONE should try this with any dog. Agressive dogs are best left to professional trainers.

Cesar has gone public with his methods. I would really be interested in seeing, with my own eyes, how these other people rehabilitate agressive dogs.

If they have a better way I'd like to see it, Not just ready about their theory, I want to see it work.

He must have confidence in his training to be able to trust them that far. Those dogs know that he is the leader and they don't challenge it. If you have ever relly watched two dogs together, they rarely bite, the growl and snap, but never really bite. That is what he does with his touch. And a submissive dog won't challenge it.

From some of his training techniques I've read about on here, and even other stuff I read about how he says owners should treat their pets, I'm not surprised. I never did watch his show though. I was thinking of borrowing his book from the library, but nevermind now...theres always other trainers out there :)

demitasse- I think you hit the perveriable nail on the head!! When I hear of people saying "My pups is 2 months old. Why isn't he/she going potty outside all of the time?" or things like that, I just want to explode!!! When you get a new puppy, no matter what he/she did at the breeders, or wherever you're getting him/her, the rules change! What "used to be" their place to eat, sleep, potty, whatever, isn't going to be the same place in their new environment. Sure, the kitchen is still a kitchen to you and me, but to the little furkid, it's an entirely different place!!

I think Cesars ways are good, for him. Some of us try and use the "shush" that he uses and our guys look at us like we've got something stuck between our teeth. Mine do. I use "ack" and it works for me. I think if you take what he says and what he does, mix it in with what works for you, it makes sense.
Besides, there's always someone out there looking for a way that makes people appear to be bad. That's why we have lawyers, malpractice insurance, and critics!!

The best thing to have is COMMON SENSE!!! Do not put your face near a growling dog. Do not think that it's ok to try and subdue your 100 pound pit bull with your little finger. Use a little common sense people.

Suz

But, Jeanie, how do you KNOW this is true? Because that's what we see and/or are told on television?

And, "to be fair" that is the last type of dog that many trainers would use physical force with. Using a choke collar (or whatever) on an agressive dog can lead to more aggression. In many cases it's a trust issue - that dog no longer trusts humans - and it is up to us to REGAIN that trust. And I can tell you that it's not going to happen with Cesar's methods.

It may say "Do not try this at home" but people do. I constantly run into people with choke collars on their dog jerking on the dog the second it tries to walk in front of them. Meanwhile we walk by nicely with Loki walking slightly in front of me but not pulling on his leash - why? Because we spent many many weeks learning how to "walk nice" And no choke collars were involved. Some lady walked by me with a little mixed breed no bigger than 15 pounds and she was constantly giving him leash corrections. "He pulls my arm off" she said. He's 15 pounds! Secondly - the dog was seriously confused. He had NO idea what he had done wrong. Leash corrections, for those who do use them, require PRECISE timing. The average viewer at home that can go out and buy a choke collar at petsmart is NOT going to have this training. But they try anyway. They see a problem that looks like it's been "fixed" when really they need to work with their dog every day for months to help their dog improve. Just like when a 30 min cooking show turns out a meal that really takes 3 hours. There are a lot of steps missing and no one wants to watch a turkey roast for 3 hours - but that's what it takes to make a good turkey.

Cesar is making it look cool to abuse dogs - physically and emotionally. He is labelling something as "calm, submissive" but really the dogs are shutting down and the problem is NOT fixed. In one episode I saw there was a golden who loved water and would jump in all the time. He was swimming around and looked like he loved it. By the end of the episode the dog looked like he was completely terrified of the water and wouldn't jump in any more. Of course the owners were thrilled because it "solved" the problem but the dog was now completely stressed out around something that was enjoyable to him before. But Cesar described that stressed out dog as being "calm and quiet" People believe that they see on TV. Not everyone goes out and reads books and tries to gather all the information before forming an opinion. That's why he needs to go.

Erin
You know I won't even discuss this with you.

We don't, any more than we know what anyone writes or says about how they train dogs is true. So therefore this entire discussion is useless because everything is hearsay.

A few people on here focus on what they have read about a few episodes and they have never even seen his show. I agree with the person that said they take what they feel is useable for them and leave the rest.

I would never have to use his harsh methods because I would never try to deal with a vicious animal.

Truth be know there are a lot of dirty little secrets that go one in any line of work that we do not know about.

I would just like to see proof of someone rehabiliting a vicious dog without first establishing who is the boss.

There are ways to show you are in charge without resorting to physical or emotional force. What kind of proof are you looking for? Obviously these trainers that are quoted don't get to have their level of experience by only working with sweet natured dogs. Pat Miller hosts a "reactive rover" camp every year and Patricia McConnell has written books on aggression and they are not only "theory" books - she gives real life examples. Her new book is sitting on my bookshelf waiting to be read: For the Love of a Dog.

My point is that people are copying what Cesar does on TV and trying to do it on their own - and hurting their dogs physically and emotionally. I don't care if it says "Don't try this at home" people ARE.

Here's another article.

http://www.sfspca.org/Viewpoint/index.shtml

Viewpoint
A Message from The San Francisco SPCA

Talk Softly and Carry a Carrot or a Big Stick?

By Jean Donaldson, Director of The SF/SPCA Academy for Dog Trainers

Dog training is a divided profession. We are not like plumbers, orthodontists or termite exterminators who, if you put six in a room, will pretty much agree on how to do their jobs. Dog training camps are more like Republicans and Democrats, all agreeing that the job needs to be done but wildly differing on how to do it.

The big watershed in dog training is whether or not to include pain and fear as means of motivation. In the last twenty years the pendulum swing has been toward methods that use minimal pain, fear or intimidation - or none at all.

The force-free movement has been partly driven by improved communication from the top. Applied behaviorists, those with advanced degrees in behavior, and veterinary behaviorists, veterinarians who have completed residencies specializing in behavior problems are in greater abundance than in previous decades, and there is much more collaboration between these fields and trainers on the front lines. These two professions are quite unified on the point that the use of physical confrontation and pain is unnecessary, often detrimental and, importantly, unsafe.

On a more grassroots level, trainers have found more benign and sophisticated tools by boning up on applied behavior science themselves. Seminal books like marine mammal trainer Karen Pryor's Don't Shoot the Dog made the case that training and behavior modification can be achieved without any force whatsoever.

But dog training is currently an unregulated profession: there are no laws governing practices. Prosecutions under general anti-cruelty statutes are occasionally successful but greatly hampered by the absence of legal standards pertaining specifically to training practices. Provided it's in the name of training, someone with no formal education or certification can strangle your dog quite literally to death and conceivably get off scot-free.

It's not a complete wilderness: three sets of dog training guidelines exist, one in the Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT) Mission Statement, one published by the Delta Society and one by the American Humane Association (AHA). All state that less invasive (i.e. without pain or force) techniques must be competently tried and exhausted before more invasive techniques attempted. Such guidelines are not yet mandatory but they're a start.

And so the current professional climate is one laden with some remaining fierce debate. There's an ever-expanding group of trainers that train force-free (ad. literature will be some variation on the theme of "dog-friendly" or "pain-free"), trainers that still train primarily with force (ad literature: "no-nonsense" or "common sense") and trainers that employ liberal use of both force and rewards (ad literature: "balanced" or "eclectic"). From a consumer's standpoint, the choice in methods is wide. You can hire a professional to train your dog pretty much any way that suits your fancy and it's all legal.

The force-free movement gains momentum every year and a sure sign of this is that many trainers in the other camps resort to murkier and murkier euphemisms to disguise their more violent practices and retain their market share. Stressed dogs aren't "shut down," they're "calm." It's not strangling, it's "leading." As a committed devotee of the "dog-friendly" camp, I am therefore, along with my colleagues here at The San Francisco SPCA, somewhat agog at the stunning success of "The Dog Whisperer". This is pretty ferocious stuff by anybody's standards. The National Geographic Channel even runs a disclaimer banner at the bottom of the screen admonishing people to "not try this at home," a warning notably absent on home improvement shows or "Nanny 911". Many have suggested that the cloaking of corporal punishments and hazing in mystical language, promise of instant results, high octane telegenicity of Cesar Milan and lucky connections with Los Angeles celebrity clients are sufficient explanation for the Dog Whisperer phenomenon. The one with the best buzz words wins. But I don't know.

Janis Bradley, my colleague here at The SPCA, sagely points out that the positive reinforcement trend has become a big enough juggernaut to warrant a backlash and Milan represents exactly that. Like the frazzled Los Angelinos in the film "Crash" (which, notably, took Best Picture honors at The Academy Awards last year), people are fed up with having to be politically correct in a chronically frustrating and disconnected world. Couldn't we just "get real" and stop being kind and tolerant all the time?

And here we positive-reinforcement oriented dog trainers are now telling everyone they have to be nice and politically correct to the dog? Well, yes.


Jean Donaldson's article was first published in The Woofer Times, September 2006